Fire

[Gordon R]

Isn't it strange how we see what we want to?

 

I for instance saw Corbyn trying to point score politically ( whilst having yet another pop at people he perceives to be wealthy ) while May was criticised for not meeting the public, whereas I heard it was on advice of the security forces that she didn't mingle.

 

I have no respect for either of them really; after all, they're both politicians; but damned if she did and damned if she didn't?

 

The protestors set out to make it a political issue; are they seriously trying to suggest the fire wouldn't have happened under a Labour administration?

 

 

Scully - can't argue with a word.

[KB1]

I love the way that this site is so pro tory and if Mrs may had started the fire herself people on here would still defend her. it's about being amongst the people you represent and to suggest corbyn did it for political gain is in every was as misguided as suggesting may didn't do it for exactly the same reasons, may is scared of the people she is supposed to represent which is why she didn't go an meet them, corbyn wasn't scared so he did. It's that simple but don't let facts get in the way of your love for all things tory. Even the Queen who is in her 90's got off her royal backside and went to meet the people so by your logic she must also have done it for publicity or political gain. It's OK to be pro tory and still like things about corbyn and dislike things about may you know! I bet even David Cameron would have been there and met people the same as any other prime minister we have had before because they felt they had a moral obligation to show support towards the people they represent when it is so desperately needed.

 

 

Death is Death, and one tragedy is just as poignant as any other! Why do halfwits expect politicians to put on a grand show of condolences every time someone dies? Because the media demands it, and social media dares us; not to let the Jones' beat us in our expected levels of condemnation etc,.

 

Corbyn is an a****ole for rabble rousing….. Many people die in this country every single day, and often from something that can be related back to that age old thing' 'human error'.

 

Why doesn't he go the whole hog, and ask TM to visit every family in the UK thats lost a kid, husband, wife etc in an RTA?? They are no less important than the people who lost their lives in this fire!

 

Whichever government thats in power, do their level best to organise police forces, fire services, hospitals, councillors, doctors, forensics, legislation etc, etc to handle these situations…… Politicians on the whole, are caring (in the humane sense) people, and we should just accept that, and stop letting the media patronise us for profit!!!!

 

Thats my rant over, and its nothing to do with Tory or Labour; If TM had acted the same way as Corbyn, then I would have called her an A****ole too

[JohnfromUK]

Corbyn is an *****ole for rabble rousing…..

I totally agree with you, but unfortunately he has cleverly captured the moment of a group worried, badly shaken up by events and willing to be roused and enjoying the full media spotlight; He and his 'comrades' are cleverly and cynically exploiting their moment to further their wider agenda (being a sharp turn to the left).

Edited June 18, 2017 by JohnfromUK

[Yellow Bear]

I totally agree with you, but unfortunately he has cleverly captured the moment of a group worried, badly shaken up by events and willing to be roused and enjoying the full media spotlight; He and his 'comrades' are cleverly and cynically exploiting their moment to further their wider agenda (being a sharp turn to the left).

And once they get power will try to make protests, such as they use, illegal and throw protesters in jail, as does Putin and his cronies.

[Gordon R]

I don't recall him hugging victims of IRA bombs. A truly shallow individual.

[keg]

+1 to all those comments.

[ph5172]

 

what bugs me is these people expecting the fire/police/council to tell them who was lost in the fire I think they need to show them some photos of burnt bodies and ask them is this your friend relative the plane fact is it will take weeks or months to even hope to identify what remains of the dead people I do feel very sorry for these people who have lost friends/relatives but think before you go protesting.

 

There was in interview in the BBC Magazine with the head of the Remains Identity after the first London Bombings -

 

The goal is to ensure that no parts are wrongly allocated, and that "the body we give back to the family is absolutely as pure as that body as we can possibly make it".

There are only four ways to definitively identify a body, Ramsbottom says - through fingerprints, DNA, dental records and surgical implants, such as a hip joint or a pace-maker with a unique serial number.

Wallets and ID documents are not considered strong enough evidence. And "if we don't know, we say nothing," he says.

"Do the police say to somebody, 'We are 90% sure we found them'? But then we leave them with 10% hope. Is it worse later if we destroy that 10% hope or not?

"That's not a legal or police question, it's a human-being question and I don't have the answer to it."

He adds: "The only thing we console ourselves with is that when we've done what we've done, we've got absolutely the right body, and that the dead person there has told their story to the police and coroner, and that story becomes part of the narrative of the incident."

[toxo]

I can't believe you guys are still political point scoring over this. We need to look forward not backward. The growing population will continue to put pressure on housing and high rise blocks aren't going anywhere.

This tragedy WILL happen again despite all efforts (or no efforts) to stop it.

 

I can't even comprehend what goes through the mind of a parent that has no choice but to throw a child out of a high rise window.

 

The first thing I thought of was a modified one of these;

 

https://www.hss.com/hire/p/rubbish-chute-section

 

Can be made to any length.

Can have a gentle slope on the end a la swimming pool flumes.

Until a standardised permanent roof structure is worked out, a helicopter could take it where it's needed.

 

Just the way my mind works.

[digger]

Helicopters aren't used unless it's a film. How would they attach the ( plastic ) chute to the entry point ? Whose job would it be ? Sorry, total non starter. Education is needed

[ShootingEgg]

Just watching daily politics, and its refreshing to hear the panel saying it was awful how its been made political by corbyn. And making it austerity war.

 

Just seen this in news too..

 

Jeremy Corbyn has reiterated his suggestion that people left homeless by the Grenfell Tower fire could be housed in empty homes, saying the government has the means to seize property.

"Occupy it, compulsory purchase it, requisition it," the Labour leader told ITV's Peston on Sunday.

Edited June 18, 2017 by ShootingEgg

[scolopax]

We have an excellent piece of kit on the rigs, a mesh chute that allows emergency descent from height. It is basically a netting chute with baffles in it every couple of metres to stop any free fall. A person has to deliberately zig zag their way down.

[JimLondon]

We have an excellent piece of kit on the rigs, a mesh chute that allows emergency descent from height. It is basically a netting chute with baffles in it every couple of metres to stop any free fall. A person has to deliberately zig zag their way down.

Imagine members of the public using it, with no training and in a state of panic.

[ditchman]

Imagine members of the public using it, with no training and in a state of panic.

 

 

i would pay good money to see that...

[scolopax]

That's the benefit of the it needs little or no training. Just get in and gravity does the work, it only takes a modicum of intelligence to work out how to get down.

[Mice!]

Given the choice of the shute you mention or jump I know which I would want

[ordnance]

Imagine members of the public using it, with no training and in a state of panic.

You would be in more of a panic if you had no way down.

Edited June 18, 2017 by ordnance

[JimLondon]

You would be in more of a panic if you had no way down.[/quote

 

To suggest I'd be in "more of a panic" is a bit harsh, but the practicality of it is, who would deploy it, who would stop a mad scramble to get in it, and who would unblock if it got overloaded.

[Vince Green]

Unpalatable as it may appear, The fire regulations did not require a sprinkler system in that building so there was no imperative to fit one.

Unpalitable as it may appear no2, there appears to be no regulation what can be fixed to the OUTSIDE of a building. The materials used were common enough to be regarded as "industry standard" although bottom end

 

The truth? It was an accident waiting to happen, sad, but the real blame goes back 40 years.

Edited June 18, 2017 by Vince Green

[ordnance]

You would be in more of a panic if you had no way down.[/quote

 

To suggest I'd be in "more of a panic" is a bit harsh, but the practicality of it is, who would deploy it, who would stop a mad scramble to get in it, and who would unblock if it got overloaded.

When i say you, i don't mean you personally i should have said anyone. You are right it would not be ideal but better than nothing. They are going to have to come up with something, either to stop the fire spreading or a better way to get people out. I know if i was living in one i would be investing in one of these, again not ideal but could save you if you could get to a window away from the fire.

 

SkySaver Rescue Device - YouTube

Edited June 18, 2017 by ordnance

[JimLondon]

Unpalatable as it may appear, The fire regulations did not require a sprinkler system in that building so there was no imperative to fit one.Unpalitable as it may appear no2, there appears to be no regulation what can be fixed to the OUTSIDE of a building. The materials used were common enough to be regarded as industry standard although bottom end

A lot has been said about the cladding, but I wonder if the building had heating ducts, that may be the reason for such rapid internal fire spread. Just a thought

[Yellow Bear]

A lot has been said about the cladding, but I wonder if the building had heating ducts, that may be the reason for such rapid internal fire spread. Just a thought

unlikely at that time, however, it is not uncommon for all fire doors to be wedged open in structures like this (opening doors to stairwells is so inconvenient).

It is also possible that flammable waste was stored in bin chute areas with doors to ducts up/down also missing or open.

also possible doors left open to promote stack effect cooling.

 

All of these would cause a chimney effect within the structure.

[Bazooka Joe]

Talk now about the cladding being banned in the UK.....

 

http://www.getwestlondon.co.uk/news/west-london-news/grenfell-tower-fire-cladding-banned-13201741

Edited June 18, 2017 by Bazooka Joe

[ShootingEgg]

Talk now about the cladding being banned in the UK.....

Sounds like it shouldn't be used on buildings over 10metres tall..

 

Another thing that worries me is the building was taller than is reachable by the fire service. Soo what happens if tge fire started up the top? Okay evacuation would be easier but still it would take hold and spread with no means of extinguishing to start

[saddler]

...and who would unblock if it got overloaded.

The clinically obese occupants of the flat above you would unblock it in a milisecond

[saddler]

Another thing that worries me is the building was taller than is reachable by the fire service...

As a youngster I was told that buildings were only made to a height that could be reached by the Snorkel type extended ladder/tower tenders.

What changed? (Apart from over-population, profiteering, several property booms, lack of public housing stock since right to buy/lack of re-investment in housing with the right to buy revenue, unchecked immigration, urban population manipulation by several Labour governments, etc.)

Edited June 18, 2017 by saddler