ShootingEgg Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 Not a great story on new this morning http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-40555282 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mice! Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 No not good at all and a link there about hen harriers a year old but still??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 The accusers are hardly impartial!.........Surprising how they know just exactly where to place covert cameras to capture these "crimes" on a many thousand acre moor innit? I suspect the reason prosecutors in Scotland have recently declined to persue a number of alleged wildlife (so called raptor persecution) crimes backed up by photographic evidence is because the "evidence" is provided by people/organisations with a vested interest in, by whatever means discrediting Fieldsports and with a biased anti shooting agenda? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbuss Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 The accusers are hardly impartial!.........Surprising how they know just exactly where to place covert cameras to capture these "crimes" on a many thousand acre moor innit? I suspect the reason prosecutors in Scotland have recently declined to persue a number of alleged wildlife (so called raptor persecution) crimes backed up by photographic evidence is because the "evidence" is provided by people/organisations with a vested interest in, by whatever means discrediting Fieldsports and with a biased anti shooting agenda? Are you saying these pictures are fake? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 Are you saying these pictures are fake? Nope! I am raising the possibility! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShootingEgg Posted July 11, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 Nope! I am raising the possibility! Which yes there could be that possibility. But proving that could be interesting and not the easiest thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbuss Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 Nope! I am raising the possibility! Interesting view point, they look real enough to me but of course neither of us knows for sure. Trouble is, there is a steady drip, drip of similar stories from grouse estates all the time. There would seem to be an army of evidence fakers out there. I support grouse shooting and would dearly love to try it. I think the heather management and predator control benefit wildlife massively. I also think a small number of keepers bring the whole of shooting into disrepute and their actions may well lead to the end of driven grouse shooting in the not too distant future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 Banning driven Grouse shooting is flavour of the month currently with the antis, that could explain the growing steady drip, drip, drip of accusations concearning Grouse moors?...... this is par for the course when the antis get the smell of blood!..... it happened with fox hunting the antis smelled victory and upped the media coverage and political pressure..................whether their reporting/pressure is honest is debatable....because with extremists, in persuance of their agenda "the end justifies the means" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walshie Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 I'd like to know where they were when they took the photos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShootingEgg Posted July 11, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 I'd like to know where they were when they took the photos. Trial cams I think, so maybe in the pub? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIDES EDGE Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 Why would they wear a mask and try to shoot the snare off and the whole set up looks set up to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webber Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 It's a brave man who attempts to release a badger from a snare; but it can be done. Neither the pictures nor the article indicate if the badgers were injured in the snare, there shooting therefore being humane dispatch? webber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
39TDS Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 I think if I accidentally caught a badger in a snare I would shoot it rather than release it. No point risking serious injury or even TB for the sake of a badger, it's not like they are rare or anything. However, accidentally catching a badger and then letting some antis photograph you shooting it or the snare is a bit dumb. As for the antis, they wanted it to happen didn't they. I bet they were delighted when they saw the pics, a real animal lover would have removed the snare before it caught anything wouldn't they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
team tractor Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 Badgers have killed 6 lambs this year where I shoot . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walshie Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 Trial cams I think, so maybe in the pub? Looks like a trail cam on a 20ft pole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendrix's rifle Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 Why would they wear a mask and try to shoot the snare off and the whole set up looks set up to me. Especially on a PRIVATE estate...bet it's an anti whose done it. You would be surprised what you can do on Photoshop Badgers have killed 6 lambs this year where I shoot . They've been taking lambs that are quite a size, the same goes for fox but that I can deal with. Another farmer has lost 50 cows to tb. We're over run with them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShootingEgg Posted July 11, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 Have to agree though, if id put a snare out for fox and I found badger thats injured and ****** off, not sure id want to put myself that close.. But then I dont use snares so wont ever get that scenario... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 The anti shooting brigade attracts a lot of support from some well healed backers and I know from recounted experiences on some Scottish estates that it is not uncommon for anti's to contract ex special forces types to dig in and carry out surveillance to gather their 'evidence'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benthejockey Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 Don't panic there's about 6 weeks until cubbing starts and they'll start harassing hunting people again. I wouldn't want to be the one to try and get near the pointy end of an angry badger. Not discounting that they could be true to prove beyond reasonable doubt that these are real photos I imagine they would have to recover the snares and the carcass to match DNA and prove that the badger was shot. Then they would have to prove who the person/persons in the photos are probably again by match DNA to the snare or traces of badger on them or their clothing. And then they'd have to prove that it wasn't photoshop or some other sort of fabrication. They'd have to then prove intent. Now we can all draw our own conclusions from the photos and they're probably correct but proving it will be a different matter. If all of this got them into a court room they'd still be unlucky to get an anti judge. £1000 fine IF they get prosecuted I would imagine. If they'd put a season on badgers it would be a huge improvement for the badger population! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 (edited) How would they (ex special forces! Or anyone else for that matter!) know where to dig in (or place a camera?) for observations? I assume the snares were set to catch fox? How did the antis or the special forces know when and where precisely on a massive area of moorland, a badger not a fox would walk into a particular snare? And how were they present at the precise moment the "keeper" arrived to dispatch the unfortunate badger? Coincidence.......nah! Edited July 11, 2017 by panoma1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 If these photos were real (and they may be real, i don't know) why are they only coming out now if it happened months ago? They should of been handed to the polis straight away. Anyone who has accidentally caught a badger in a snare (as it does happen and is not illegal if accidental) will know it usually pretty obvious wot has been in the snare. In fact i just looked again at the right hand photo and to me i don't think the badger has been in a snare at the spot anyway, ground is not disturbed enough, althou he may of checked it just after badger was caught, mibee if u blow the photo up it may be clearer? It would be very easy to pick a dead badger of a roadside lay it in a field and stand over it as if shooting it infront of an already positioned trial cam. To position a trail cam over the exact snare that catches a badger and get the shooter smack bang in the photo, they must have a crystal ball, many FT keepers could have 10,50 or even hundreds of snares set at any time yet they catch the exact snare smack on in middle of field of view. I'd say it just seem's too convinient nut they may just be that good? Its not even illegal to shoot a badger in a snare if u genuinely believe it is badly injured, but u could have to stand up in court and defend urself after the badger has been pm'd by a vet. if ur wrong it will be fines/jail and good bye gun tickets thou Quite a few years ago i caught a badger round a pheasant pen that was dead, i phoned the wildlife crime officer explained the situation and they give u a number so if anyone else seen it and reported it my backside was covered. The polis just said don't set a snare in that position again I generally set fox snares higher now but if u do catch 1, i carry a fork/grape in the van, piece of thin ply and good wire cutters, slide the fork down snare so broc can't move, stand behind it with ply and cut the wire they usually bolt off. I know of 1 rogue badger that was taking big strong contential X lambs that were the size of Lab's, used to take 1 every night and these were not sickly lambs Only 1 month or so till the glorious 12th so just getting the press well primed in advance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pushandpull Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 The website raptor politics uk, which is scarcely pro-shooting, points out that no illegal act seems to be shown on the video although it may upset people. The filming seems too neat to be done by a hidden trail-cam and of course (as said above) how would you know where to position it or indeed where to hide if filming live ? Lastly, how many keepers (not of course knowing that they might be filmed) go about their daily business wearing masks and vinyl gloves ? However the story has made the Mirror and the BBC. Propaganda does not have to be true to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twistedsanity Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 The full video is on the newspaper website, the badger scurries away afterwards and the filming is very obviously done by a person as it's shakey and zooms in and out, to be honest I don't know how he can have not killed the badger when you see him shoot, the whole thing is a bit fishy and begs the question as to why the person filming it being an animal lover sat there probably smoking several joints watching the snared badger suffering in pain on the off-chance that a gamekeeper would turn up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 The fact that it "scurries away afterwards", how does something snared manage to scurry away?? But i've not seen the video clip. Do the keepers have face masks on? I thought it was just a grainy photo. The bottom line many of these photos/evidence just look far to good and convieniant to be real, but if u don't know any better they look real and make a good eye catching story that suits most tabloids, toffs servants killing/slaughtering animals/protected species. Wot really amazes me either last summer or 2 summers ago a scottish charity the John Muir Trust went out and shot 86 stags and left them on the hill to rot just to upset some of its neighbous trying to prove a point. I'd say a genuine slaughter scandal yet no tabloids picked up on it, if some toff had done it it would have been all over the news. Far too much politics involved If some of these groups told me it was raining the 1st thing i'd do is look out the window, there is no trust left even with some of the more mainstream wildlife org's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twistedsanity Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/shocking-footage-sees-animals-trapped-10770940 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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