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What PCP - almost decided, nearly, maybe


wobbly bob 2
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So, it’s time to break cover and say hello to everyone, and thank you all for an interesting, informative, and entertaining forum.

I shoot air pistol, but have been hankering after a PCP rifle, and been lurking here for a while picking up pointers, as well as researching on YouTube and other forums. Initially for target shooting in the garden until sufficiently competent to tackle pigeons and pests, I am looking for something quiet and reasonably compact.
I considered many options, and narrowed it down to Air Arms S410, S510, and Ultimate Sporter, and two offerings from Weihrauch, the HW100 and HW110. And I decided on 0.177 calibre.
It’s all very well reading reviews and looking at the specs on paper, but you need to fondle them, and so I did the gun shops today. I felt the S410 and S510 were good, but too noisy without a mod, and too long with one. I was unsure about the laminate stock on the Ultimate Sporter, but it didn’t look so bad in the flesh. Quiet, handled nicely, good trigger, not so keen on the magazine indexing system though, or the safety.
I liked the HW110 a lot, but top for fondling factor for me though was the HW100T. And when I saw the laminate version … well … ding dong!
With that almost decided maybe, it’s now a question of standard or carbine. And that’s where I’m stuck, and would appreciate comment from the collective wisdom here.
And thanks guys for your help so far. You’ve been great.
Bob
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You have chosen well, all of the guns that you are considering are capable of removing a Gnats wedding tackle if you do your bit. I am a self confessed AA fan and after 38 years of Airgun use I wouldn't use anything else, I shoot Squirrels for a Trust over 5k acres and an unreliable gun is not an option, as for the indexing system on the AA guns all I can add is that I have never had a single issue with any model but that a replacement indexing post is less than £10 and can be fitted in 2 minutes. Good choice of calibre as well. Bought both my current guns second hand ( S410 classic .177 and Walnut Carbine .22) so have no idea of their previous treatment but the classic has been mine for over 6 years, still looks like new and will still outshoot me every time. Confidence is an addition that you cannot buy for a gun - it comes with time spent and results achieved - yet it is as important as a good scope, I can rely on my 2 AA's to hit anything that I place the crosshairs on time and time again which is why I would never part with them :good: .

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So, it’s time to break cover and say hello to everyone, and thank you all for an interesting, informative, and entertaining forum.

I shoot air pistol, but have been hankering after a PCP rifle, and been lurking here for a while picking up pointers, as well as researching on YouTube and other forums. Initially for target shooting in the garden until sufficiently competent to tackle pigeons and pests, I am looking for something quiet and reasonably compact.
I considered many options, and narrowed it down to Air Arms S410, S510, and Ultimate Sporter, and two offerings from Weihrauch, the HW100 and HW110. And I decided on 0.177 calibre.
It’s all very well reading reviews and looking at the specs on paper, but you need to fondle them, and so I did the gun shops today. I felt the S410 and S510 were good, but too noisy without a mod, and too long with one. I was unsure about the laminate stock on the Ultimate Sporter, but it didn’t look so bad in the flesh. Quiet, handled nicely, good trigger, not so keen on the magazine indexing system though, or the safety.
I liked the HW110 a lot, but top for fondling factor for me though was the HW100T. And when I saw the laminate version … well … ding dong!
With that almost decided maybe, it’s now a question of standard or carbine. And that’s where I’m stuck, and would appreciate comment from the collective wisdom here.
And thanks guys for your help so far. You’ve been great.
Bob

 

Avoid the 110 like the plague! If you want a good giggle, go on the Facebook page for 110 owners and read the tales of woe with them:

guns loose in stocks

a nationwide barrel replacement two months after it had been released because they weren't shooting straight

hammer springs that jammed and wouldn't fire

loss of power after a few weeks: guns at 11.5ft/lb dropping to 9ft/lb

failing anti double load.

leaks

the list is seemingly endless.

 

Mine's goone back once for the barrel replacement and once for the jamming hammer. It's shooting fine now - but it's a faff to go through. I love it now it is working spot on, but I'd say, if you do fancy one, buy second hand and test it a lot before committing, so you know you've got one that actually works well

 

Welcome to the site by the way. Where live you?

ATB Chris

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That's 2 of us but too many are the AA fan-boys.

Hardly fair to call them fanboys. The S410 is one of the best air rifles there is. It ticks all the boxes and does what is needed without unnecessary stuff that just put the price up. They just work day, in day out. BSA make some reasonable guns, but aren't a by-word for reliability unlike the S410. As a hunting tool, takes some beating.

Does that make me a fan boy? well I've never owned one and don't intend to - but only because of subjective reasons. I don't like the safety catch or the trigger, I do like regulated guns and it's a bit dull to look at, but none of those directly affect the gun's ability to do the job. No one needs a regulator, you just need to know how your gun performs through the curve.

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Again I would not discount the ultra, my .22 has had many rats in the short time I've owned it.

It's all very well asking for opinions but please remember they are just that. What one person likes you may hate.

I prefer sporter stocks to thumb-hole but thumb-hole stocks seem to be in at the moment. You need to visit a gun shop that has a test facility and arrange to try the ones you have shortlisted. But please if you do this, buy your chosen gun from the dealer, or at least give them the opportunity to price match, you can't try a gun over the tinternet. Lol.

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hello, as well made as they are i would never buy an HW pcp, HW K version is 7.5llbs the 100 8.4 llbs then the scope weight. my FX 180 shot is 6llb scoped, if i were in the market for a new 177 pcp i would not be sure which one to get but it would be a large capacity air system as you loose so much filling small tubes and i dont do fancy stocks, or any targets unless to zero, think a bit limited to my choice :rolleyes: oh a few years back i asked AA if they can think of making a more compact air rifle, no call for them oh how is the sale of your 2 tubed rifles, no answer, i all the years i have shot air rifles i have never seen a rifle designed by a true shooter unless you know different???

Edited by oldypigeonpopper
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Hardly fair to call them fanboys. The S410 is one of the best air rifles there is. It ticks all the boxes and does what is needed without unnecessary stuff that just put the price up. They just work day, in day out. BSA make some reasonable guns, but aren't a by-word for reliability unlike the S410. As a hunting tool, takes some beating.

Does that make me a fan boy? well I've never owned one and don't intend to - but only because of subjective reasons. I don't like the safety catch or the trigger, I do like regulated guns and it's a bit dull to look at, but none of those directly affect the gun's ability to do the job. No one needs a regulator, you just need to know how your gun performs through the curve.

 

Did I say that the S410 was not good? There's a reason there are so many fan-boys: it's an excellent rifle. It does have some features that are clearly better than my Ultra (magazine and cocking mechanism). You are a fan-boy and you don't even own one! AA clearly have a stronger brand than BSA, who continue to suffer from long standing BSA-haters. Do you own a BSA rifle? How do you make these comparative statements about performance?

 

OP: go with the 410, it's a good choice.

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Did I say that the S410 was not good? There's a reason there are so many fan-boys: it's an excellent rifle. It does have some features that are clearly better than my Ultra (magazine and cocking mechanism). You are a fan-boy and you don't even own one! AA clearly have a stronger brand than BSA, who continue to suffer from long standing BSA-haters. Do you own a BSA rifle? How do you make these comparative statements about performance?

 

OP: go with the 410, it's a good choice.

hello, i had one from new in 22 shot 100s of rats and i mean 100s had 4 years sold and still shooting well. :good:

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I've got both an AA S410 in .22 and a BSA R10 mk2 in .177. Both are excellent and accurate air rifles and I would recommend either to anyone looking to get into PCP's.

 

The R10 is a really beautiful looking gun with a nice walnut stock. I bought it from a mate at around 6 months old and have had it about a year but I may have to sell it now to help fund an FAC.

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Bought a Scorpion about a year ago cos it was going cheap, chap in Scotland was getting rid because of the licence fiasco and the fact that, as he put it, "the pellets just keep going lower and lower"- he honestly did not realise that PCP's needed charging regularly :no: . Anyhow, despite being a sceptic of the BSA brand since the take over, I must confess to being very pleased at the quality and, more importantly, the accuracy that this diminutive gun was capable of, so much so that for a couple of weeks the AA twins were finding themselves sitting at home gathering dust while the Scorpion went Nutty bashing. Problem was, however, that the sweet spot was around 170 bar but that only gave about 40 shots that were spot on before the zero began to drop. "But have you ever shot 40 Squizzers?" I hear all you Beeza fans say? Well no....but by the time you have checked zero, 5 shots if all is okay, you find your mind wondering about the air left...if you fluff a shot then 5 more to recheck zero plus the bodged one and I start getting a bit worried. So I sold it, didn't really want to because it really was a good gun - but with a reg fitted and a bigger tube (not that expensive surely and could be built/assembled in Turkey?) the gun would have been a serious threat to the AA domination of my cabinet.

Edited by bruno22rf
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Did I say that the S410 was not good? There's a reason there are so many fan-boys: it's an excellent rifle. It does have some features that are clearly better than my Ultra (magazine and cocking mechanism). You are a fan-boy and you don't even own one! AA clearly have a stronger brand than BSA, who continue to suffer from long standing BSA-haters. Do you own a BSA rifle? How do you make these comparative statements about performance?

 

OP: go with the 410, it's a good choice.

I don't own a BSA...any more.

I did own an R10Mk2. On paper a great gun, but rather stuffed up in manufacturing. As plenty of other people reported, you couldn't fill it to the recommended fill pressure of 232bar because the regulator couldn't hack it, so it was only good from 200 bar, which reduced your shot count. This was, of course, after it had been back to BSA once already because even filling from 200, it would still tick along at only about 10 ft/lb until you were down to about 120 bar then it'd finally get up to full power - right before the bottle needed refilling. The magazine and barrel chewed pellets constantly because the barrel was so poorly crowned and it had a nasty habit of making pellets clip the silencer, which came with the gun. In the end I sent it off to Darrin at XTX for a full tune and regulator change (for a Tench one) and it was brilliant after that. It's just a shame that so many need tuning to make them into the gun it promises on paper.

 

I also owned a BSA Ultra SE. Another gun I really wanted to like but failed to live up to expectations. The hammer spring on mine would constantly creep, so over time it'd lose power. It also shredded seals like there's no tomorrow. That plastic stock is like sitting there holding the dash of a 1990's Vauxhall Vectra. It shot okay - when it wasn't chewing pellets - but overall it was a big disappointment.

 

There is a reason why there are so many tuning companies out there that specialise in BSA guns. It's because they are great on design (except the original daft Ultra and that MMC business) but then just don't build them properly. No wonder Bowkett up and left!

Edited by chrisjpainter
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Chris .you had one poor ultra and an r10 with known reg issues .

That hardley makes all bsa pcps poor .

Between my mate and i we have had 10 ultras and each one of them have been excellent. Being VERY reliable and accurate .between us we still own 5 of them .

Ive 3 .my mate 2 .we also have a scorpion each .very good guns .

Ps 2 of my ultras are the mmc type ..

 

I hope that makes me qualified to give a true reflection of their quality as a gun .

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You have had 10 excellent ultra,s? Why would you sell 5 "excellent" guns? Best way to determine the best gun in the real world would be to discover which manufacturer wins most Trophies at FT competitions etc? When you consider BSA's long history it's a shame that very few models were outstanding in any sense, yet AA seem to make the best (out of the box) under lever in the TX, the very best break barrel in the Pro Elite whilst their Competition rifles are capable of winning Trophy after Trophy and all from a company that is relatively new to the game. Customer service, however, is shocking :unhappy:

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Why sell some excellent guns ?

I question i thought you would ask .

It was usually .because one might have been a single shot and i wanted a multi so swapped .

And then later realised i wanted a single shot again for comp work .

My mate swapped an mmc for an se ..

He had a jsr .cos it was cheap .but didnt need it so sold it on to a dad with a lad .

There are loads of good reasons to loose guns in favour of others .its just that most of our ultras have been swapped for other ultras .

 

 

Ps ive won a few hft comps with my ss ultra pb is a 59 .

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Thanks for the responses. As I said, I found the S410 with a mod a tad long. The Ultimate Sporter is a possibility, but I was leaning towards the HW100 and looking for views on the carbine versus the standard length.

 

 

Welcome to the site by the way. Where live you?

ATB Chris

 

Thanks, Chris. A lively site this. I’m in Bournemouth.

 

 

You need to visit a gun shop that has a test facility and arrange to try the ones you have shortlisted. But please if you do this, buy your chosen gun from the dealer, or at least give them the opportunity to price match, you can't try a gun over the tinternet. Lol.

 

I was hoping to do just that. And I always try to support local shops, but I don’t know any around here with a test range.

What’s the word on Ronnie Sunshines?
Or is that like asking a keen cyclist about Halfords. :)
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Thanks for the responses. As I said, I found the S410 with a mod a tad long. The Ultimate Sporter is a possibility, but I was leaning towards the HW100 and looking for views on the carbine versus the standard length.

 

 

Thanks, Chris. A lively site this. I’m in Bournemouth.

 

 

 

I was hoping to do just that. And I always try to support local shops, but I don’t know any around here with a test range.

What’s the word on Ronnie Sunshines?
Or is that like asking a keen cyclist about Halfords. :)

 

great bunch of people. they've been really helpful when i've needed it

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Don't you love it when the AA and BSA lads start falling out ha ha, couldn't resist.

 

Another way to go might be to get something second hand from your local gun shop, have a play around and see where it leads you.

 

I have a rapid 7 but from what I've read getting one second hand would be iffy as folk like to mess with them.

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