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Stubbles and margins.


THE MEK
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I am part of a small pigeon club for a landowner,he has informed all the shooters that no one is allowed to shoot on the stubbles or drive on them.

He also says no one is to drive on the margins even though the tractors are using them to pull all the trailers of straw out of the fields.

He says we are here for crop protection,so we have to watch the fields with standing crop in them.

Drove round the land for the last couple of days and there was one pigeon sitting on a wire over a rape field.today I watched about 300 birds with more coming and going onto a rape stubble unable to do anything.

Just trying to figure out his thought process.

Are margins only to be used by farm vehicles, I heard they get payment for these.

The way I look at it if we don't take the opportunity to shoot them now, he's going to have twice as many birds hammering his rape come the winter.

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I have recenctly gained a similar permission and it turns out they are in the higher grade stewardship scheme which i presume they are pretty well paid for.
They like you to be there when the osr is getting hammered in feb or the peas in may, but dont want you on there when the crops are off.
A very narrow minded and un educated view on pest control in my mind.
Given the fact numerous other shooters also shoot the ground i have obtained, i have decided to leave them to it.

Edited by aga man
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Hi, yes farmers do get money for the margins and may be he figures the less traffic on them the better, especially with the wet weather. Harsh but one has to go with the farmers wishes to keep a permission. Can you not walk to a suitable position? Loads of pigeons on wet standing wheat by my workshop, driving me crazy not to have said fields as one of my permissions.

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Yes margins aren't meant to be driven on if you're in a scheme etc not sure if the environmental stewardship are still going. Used to get an inspector turn up to check how you're looking after the land and if the margins had been damaged etc they can deduct your payment. Could be that's what's happened here

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The margin thing I can understand. The not shooting on stubble I can't, do you pay for the shooting?

Easy for me to say but I wouldn't be overly fussed on carrying on with that permission, he does realise you do it for enjoyment as well as crop protection right? Denying you the best of the shooting is a shame.

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The margins are torn up now bt the tractors coming and going. I only drive a shogun pinin, so not a lot of weight. Think he's going to be in a world of hurt come January when they hitting the rape and the fine weather lads don't get out. I'm restricted due to working offshore but do get out in the winter, just feels like there's no reward for the effort put in then. Plus he owns three quarters of the land round here so a fair bit of shooting down the pan

Hi, yes farmers do get money for the margins and may be he figures the less traffic on them the better, especially with the wet weather. Harsh but one has to go with the farmers wishes to keep a permission. Can you not walk to a suitable position? Loads of pigeons on wet standing wheat by my workshop, driving me crazy not to have said fields as one of my permissions.

He doesn't want us shooting the stubble while there is standing crops full stop, even if you walked to a position

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We have one farm of 500 acres under this scheme. Has been ever since I gained permission.

 

Unfortunately it is the closest farm to the village, but it's his land so we happily comply.

 

In the past he has caught people ignoring his wishes and they lose their permission.

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Technically speaking ...he is right..........driving on CMS can loose your subs/payments...also farmers have been warned about using CMS as turning areas...also..i think you are only allowed to shoot pigeons as crop protection...so if you are shooting them on a none crop area i assume you are breaking he law...bit of a grey area...

 

as Motty rightly says "a strange attitude for a farmer to take".........................as said elswhere....start looking for another permission.......

 

The reason i have contributed to this post is a few years ago...my farmer mate asked me to stop driving on the CMS as i had left wheel marks when wet and as a result when it was inspected and measured for payment they told him if that happens again payment will be refused...since then i only use the CMS when its dry...or frosty

 

i rekon the farmer has had a warning....in any case it maybe time to move on... :good:

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The margins are torn up now bt the tractors coming and going. I only drive a shogun pinin, so not a lot of weight. Think he's going to be in a world of hurt come January when they hitting the rape and the fine weather lads don't get out. I'm restricted due to working offshore but do get out in the winter, just feels like there's no reward for the effort put in then. Plus he owns three quarters of the land round here so a fair bit of shooting down the pan

 

He doesn't want us shooting the stubble while there is standing crops full stop, even if you walked to a position

Its because your farmer has it in his head that whilst they are on the stubble's they are leaving his corn alone (which is true) I know a couple of farmers with the same attitude, I have tried explaining that I could kill a lot of pigeons on the stubble's thus reducing their numbers on the estate, their answer was 'we can keep them off the winter rape with gas-guns' think you will just have to except his wishes or as others have said, move on.

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I had a perm with loads of restrictions regarding driving on the margins and not leaving any mud on the hard tracks. So I was expected to clean my tyres after coming off the fields and having to cart all my stuff around in a barrow. I now don't shoot on that farm it's too much like hard work and I'm in it for the enjoyment as well as the crop protection.

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hello, i think the steward scheme inspectors are becoming more restrictive as my friends at the farm said they know of 1 farmer who lost money by not keeping to the rules of payment, and it was a fair sum in the £1,000s, i was told it is £150 per acre, to a small farm of a few 100 acres it seems very little, but take the Dyson empire of 1000s of acres as tesco say every little helps :rolleyes: , oh just a thought MEK and others what happens on a shooting day if there is one, driving guns and beaters about.

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Hi

His land his rules

 

Better a bit of shooting than none at all

 

There must be a flight line to and from the stubble field hopefully over the crops that need protection

 

Just my thoughts

 

All the best

Of

 

I agree with this view.

 

Rules and restrictions are common, I have farmers ask me to shoot over standing crops (at the moment peas) waiting to be harvested, rather than the stubbles, also there are some headlands I am not allowed to drive on and most don't want driving on wet fields, or dirt tracks.

Certain fields I can't shoot (one is next to the farmers ex wife), areas they don't want me to park, no shooting before ***, or after ***, etc.

 

I don't find it difficult to comply with these requests and as I can mix and match the farms, it doesn't inconvenience me that much.

 

I also have farms where the instruction is, "do what you want".

 

 

.

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I can understand the margins but the stubbles no.

I have one large estate I can shoot who have banned pigeon shooters from margins but also stubbles, claiming our vehicles will cause compaction on the ground. The idea that a car or pick up will cause compaction with a couple of journeys across a field is ridiculous given the amount of heavy machinery (combine, tractors etc) that they use on the ground. They also won't give us keys to gates etc and the owner is generally no help at all.

I only go over there if I can't find any pigeons more locally.

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I can understand the margins but the stubbles no.

I have one large estate I can shoot who have banned pigeon shooters from margins but also stubbles, claiming our vehicles will cause compaction on the ground. The idea that a car or pick up will cause compaction with a couple of journeys across a field is ridiculous given the amount of heavy machinery (combine, tractors etc) that they use on the ground. They also won't give us keys to gates etc and the owner is generally no help at all.

I only go over there if I can't find any pigeons more locally.

 

You might think it ridiculous about the compaction, but if the farmer is running a controlled traffic farming system, then the only places that tractor wheels go, will be tramlines and every so many meters, say every 6 if they're running a 6m drill. The idea being they keep any compaction in those wheelings, year after year, leaving the rest of the soil untouched.

 

I'm not saying that the farmer you're refering to is running that system, but generally there is an explanation for everything!

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You might be right but the impact of a truck or similar (even a Land Rover) crossing the field once really is minimal. I mentioned it to a farm manager who looks after thousands of acres and he just laughed.

 

It might be minimal but the compaction is still caused, which is what some systems try to avoid. As i say the farmer might not employ that system but it's a possible reason.

 

Having been on some soil compaction courses, they can be quite interesting!

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