Working Spaniels

[A1Decoy]

Hi all,

 

Does anyone pick up with a spaniel? Occasionally beat a day on our shoot but will mostly be picking up pheasant, duck and partridge. A few people have said spaniels are more beating dogs..

 

 

Thanks

[toontastic]

Can't see the problem, I know a couple of handlers whose picking up team is made up of spaniels. Our main picker-upper works a team of 6 spaniels.

[ips]

I have had my cocker pick birds on small syndicate shoot and on beaters day. She would retrieve all day however I don't think she could manage a full day picking up on a 200 plus day. Having said that I know of people who do use cockers and springers as picking up dogs.

[E.w.]

Hi all,

 

Does anyone pick up with a spaniel? Occasionally beat a day on our shoot but will mostly be picking up pheasant, duck and partridge. A few people have said spaniels are more beating dogs..

 

 

Thanks

 

I think that's going back to the good old days were Labradors carried out all picking up duties and spaniel for beating only, but thankfully times have changed and now we see both.

[darren 67]

Seen labs that wont go into thick cover to retrieve a bird but not a spaniel.

[Michael Scotland]

Without them little spaniels the labs would have nothing to pick . I work two cockers and I am presently training a Springer we flush game for the guns and when the drive is over we help pick the bird's that are missed by the labs

[scotslad]

I've said it before on here I don't get this whole spaniel/lab thing beating thing.

 

If a lab won't beat or enter cover it's not worth feeding and if a spaniel won't retrieve not much good either (even if it only beats, later on in the season it was surprising the birds my dogs would pick (peg and mos were injured) in the beating line from previous drives/shoots).

 

A spaniel will be fine for picking up, it might not handle just as well at longer distances as not really their strong point but u can train them to do it, even getting a spaniel to be steady can be slightly harder but again with the right training easily doable

 

It might actually depend more on the type of shoot u intend to work it on, if its a shoot on open ground or a lot of water retrieves(so more seen or blind retrieves and less sweeping) it may ever so slightly suit a lab better, but equally if a lot of the birds are falling into heavy cover and more sweeping after a drive than lots of seen'.s/blinds it may suit a spaniel better

 

Most of the serious pickers up I know run a mixture of labs and spaniels, and its probably the best way, horses for courses, my labs have picked birds my springer has missed and vice versa.

With a proper bred working dog and the right training u should be able to pick up or beat or both with either a spaniel or lab

[gustaff]

i use both springers and labs for picking up both good but springer excels by a long way for long lost birds probably a springer in a million will be hard to replace as he is 8 now

[A1Decoy]

Seen labs that wont go into thick cover to retrieve a bird but not a spaniel.

 

Our lab won't go into thick cover either, it drives me mad throughout the season as have alot of birds go into the brambles etc. Shes a fine coated thin lab, not those thick shinned chunky working lab but finer coated. Done tons and tons of training over 4 years with it, but she won't have it unless she can see the bird, she flags it there and then waits for a friends spaniel to get in. grrrr! Shes ace if they aren't in a bush or brambles! Hoping a spaniel may help..

[scotslad]

A spaniel would definitely help, and would make a good team, but so would a more old fashioned working bred lab.

 

I have seen rubbish spaniels turn up there nose at cover my labs work, so not every spaniel will hit cover but most should.

 

Will ur dog fetch a dummy from cover? Even moderate cover? Even use cold game instead of a dummy (or rub the game on the dummy to give ur more retrieves, from now on u can usually pick up some road kill or predated from round the pens) so there is plenty of scent for the dog and encourage it in, dunno if u use a search command but I these types of instances it can help motivate ur dog to enter cover as it knows it will get a retrieve at the end. But it will probably never enter cover with little scent but if u can atleast get it to enter on command if it is gamey ur not too bad.

That's the problem with some of these more modern bred labs, thankfully not many in my area.

[E.w.]

Our lab won't go into thick cover either, it drives me mad throughout the season as have alot of birds go into the brambles etc. Shes a fine coated thin lab, not those thick shinned chunky working lab but finer coated. Done tons and tons of training over 4 years with it, but she won't have it unless she can see the bird, she flags it there and then waits for a friends spaniel to get in. grrrr! Shes ace if they aren't in a bush or brambles! Hoping a spaniel may help..

The simple truth is a lab is at its best picking up spaniels are real all rounders, spaniels will work thick cover happily and run rings round the lab but when it comes to long retrieves and handling the well trained lab will run rings round a spaniel, before anyone goes off on one I own four labs and two spaniel and have trailed both breeds, when it comes to working dogs it's horses for courses.

[WGD]

Hi all,

 

Does anyone pick up with a spaniel? Occasionally beat a day on our shoot but will mostly be picking up pheasant, duck and partridge. A few people have said spaniels are more beating dogs..

 

 

Thanks

 

 

Picking up with a spaniel is no problem at all. Shooting over it or going back into the beating line once it's done a job as a proper, raking picking up dog is a whole different ball game - depends on the dog but I wouldn't do too much picking up with a spaniel I want to hunt in beating line.... I've done it once.

[ips]

 

 

Picking up with a spaniel is no problem at all. Shooting over it or going back into the beating line once it's done a job as a proper, raking picking up dog is a whole different ball game - depends on the dog but I wouldn't do too much picking up with a spaniel I want to hunt in beating line.... I've done it once.

I am intrigued by the statement (not in a don't believe it way) in what way does it effect the dog for beating does it effect the drive in some way ?

[WGD]

I am intrigued by the statement (not in a don't believe it way) in what way does it effect the dog for beating does it effect the drive in some way ?

 

 

If you send a picking up dog out to do a proper job it doesn't come back until it has a bird in it's mouth and the distance it is from you is of no importance, the best ones aren't see unless they're carrying something. Which is polar opposite of the beating line where you want a dog hunting within range, under control, happy to flush and not looking to retrieve.

[ips]

 

 

If you send a picking up dog out to do a proper job it doesn't come back until it has a bird in it's mouth and the distance it is from you is of no importance, the best ones aren't see unless they're carrying something. Which is polar opposite of the beating line where you want a dog hunting within range, under control, happy to flush and not looking to retrieve.

Ah, of course. Now it makes perfect sense, I can see how that would cause problems. Thanks for explanation 👍

[ips]

WGD

Just pondering on this... Do you think that too much retrieve training on dummies could effect how a beating dog works and specifically how "far" the dog works when beating. ?

[greenshank1]

Locally on the 3 driven shoots I go to , the fashion is growing for spaniels , this means there are significantly more spaniels than labs both beating and picking up. As it's been said it's horses for courses .

 

On one shoot several of the drives end up on the shore so after working my lab in the beat line I then get asked to use her to pick up and retrieve birds from the sea / surf. So I kind of get the best of both worlds and the dog loves it.

 

The terrain here is really rough hill pasture , wooded sea cliffs / gullies and crags and old oak woods with commercial conifer and edged by bracken . This makes great pheasant drives and typically good woodcock ground. So a lab or spaniel that couldn't or wouldn't face thick cover would really struggle getting through the drives never mind finding birds.

[A1Decoy]

A spaniel would definitely help, and would make a good team, but so would a more old fashioned working bred lab.

 

I have seen rubbish spaniels turn up there nose at cover my labs work, so not every spaniel will hit cover but most should.

 

Will ur dog fetch a dummy from cover? Even moderate cover? Even use cold game instead of a dummy (or rub the game on the dummy to give ur more retrieves, from now on u can usually pick up some road kill or predated from round the pens) so there is plenty of scent for the dog and encourage it in, dunno if u use a search command but I these types of instances it can help motivate ur dog to enter cover as it knows it will get a retrieve at the end. But it will probably never enter cover with little scent but if u can atleast get it to enter on command if it is gamey ur not too bad.

That's the problem with some of these more modern bred labs, thankfully not many in my area.

 

Thanks Scotslad.

She will fetch a dummy from cover such as long grass or anything 'soft' on her, but not if its thick bramble or anything she'll go 'ouch'... She will not go into brambles unless she can physically SEE the bird cold or alive, she wouldn't even entertain a dummy in bramble. When going for a walk she will loose balls in thick cover if they accidentally go in, she'll just run around the outside of the brambles flagging where it is, but won't actually go in. We lost a ball last week (those £6 ones) so going back this week to find it and I know i'll have to beat down the brambles and get it myself, grrr! At the start of the season she'll be so keen she probably will go in thick cover for a bird, but after a few days she prefers not too, even if i spend hours after one bird.

 

She is a very modern bred lab, quite tall, she looks more like a lab x whippet as we regularly get told with her coat and shape. Her pedigree is half pet and half gundogs with alot of FTCH lines on that side. Shes very fast, specially good on runners and is a truly excellent working dog, we always get compliments on her working, but its just not wanting to go in thick cover that is her big weakness and we've never mastered it. She does have a 'search' command, she knows exactly what it means, sometimes she'll enter thick cover but other times if its very thick she'll flag where it is and a spaniel will get in!

 

Luckily a friend has a spaniel that won't do long retrieves or runners but is excellent in brambles, so we work together on that one. One day i think i'll get a sprocker or a springer to add to the team.

 

Thanks for all your comments, really helps!

Edited August 7, 2017 by A1Decoy

[WGD]

WGD

Just pondering on this... Do you think that too much retrieve training on dummies could effect how a beating dog works and specifically how "far" the dog works when beating. ?

 

 

You ponder too much!

 

No, retrieving is retrieving, hunting is hunting and picking up is raking as far and wide as is necessary to put a keepers birds in the bag..... they're all different and training handling and distance on dummies should have no bearing on a dog's pattern or distance from you when hunting.

[ips]

Ha, I can't argue with that 😁

Just checking 👍