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Pacific Salmon


guzzicat
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Here's some footage taken by Ness District Fisheries on the River Ness, showing a pair of Pink Salmon spawning, or preparing to spawn. The female can be clearly seen tailing out a redd.

 

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-40922794

 

 

On the plus side, I was listening to a guy on the radio today who thought the Pink Salmon spawn may not be viable due to water temperature, that said Pink Salmon have a range that incorporates non glacial sub 60º latitude systems, so I'm not too sure that the likes of the Ness, sat about 57º Lat, will be any warmer than those rivers in summer time, loch ness doesn't change temperature much over the course of a year, the loch being the single largest body of fresh water in the UK, as a bit of trivia; loch ness alone contains twice the volume of standing water of England & Wales combined.

 

Time will tell.

 

 

Contrary to my posting guzzicat was insistent that Pacific Salmon:-

 

1) Do not cut reds.

2) Eggs don't mature in fresh water.

3) Eggs hatch in the sea.

4) Eggs are free floating.

 

So I guess the film clip must be wrong?

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Contrary to my posting guzzicat was insistent that Pacific Salmon:-

 

1) Do not cut reds.

2) Eggs don't mature in fresh water.

3) Eggs hatch in the sea.

4) Eggs are free floating.

 

So I guess the film clip must be wrong?

 

 

 

That post was the inspiration behind my contribution to this thread. The whole reason for spawning in a river is that it increases the survival rate for the offspring, and staying in fresh water until they're of a certain size is a key species trait in that regard, it's the difference between salmon and say, cod, for example.

 

I do know that Pink Red and all the other pacific salmon species spawn in such quantity that much of the spawn is swept down stream where, it's eaten by the various trout n' char for whom eating salmon spawn is the major part of the diet. So much so, that when fishing steelhead and rainbows on the pacific west the most popular "fly" is one that imitates salmon eggs.

 

Pink salmon parr don't stay in fresh water long, as they only live two years from hatching to spawning (and death). The Jury is very much still out on the potential negative impacts on native stocks. Salmon farming has pretty much knackered salmon and sea-trout on the west-coast, the last thing we need is the east coast stocks taking a kicking :no:

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That post was the inspiration behind my contribution to this thread. The whole reason for spawning in a river is that it increases the survival rate for the offspring, and staying in fresh water until they're of a certain size is a key species trait in that regard, it's the difference between salmon and say, cod, for example.

 

I do know that Pink Red and all the other pacific salmon species spawn in such quantity that much of the spawn is swept down stream where, it's eaten by the various trout n' char for whom eating salmon spawn is the major part of the diet. So much so, that when fishing steelhead and rainbows on the pacific west the most popular "fly" is one that imitates salmon eggs.

 

Pink salmon parr don't stay in fresh water long, as they only live two years from hatching to spawning (and death). The Jury is very much still out on the potential negative impacts on native stocks. Salmon farming has pretty much knackered salmon and sea-trout on the west-coast, the last thing we need is the east coast stocks taking a kicking :no:

Looks like my word of mouth info in Denver tackle shop was a load of carp.

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It's something that's been of increasing concern of late and the latest film of a pair of Pink salmon cutting a redd on the Ness is a foreboding sight. My particular concern, one that has been overlooked to some degree, is the possible/potential impact on our sea trout. Generally there's an evolved species separation in UK (along with other European) rivers that keeps spawning salmon and sea trout at 'arms length'. Salmon, being the larger of the two favour a larger substrate to cut redds, they're also more inclined to wait for a detectable drop in water temperature before spawning. Where as sea trout tend to cut redds sooner and in locations where substrate is more suitable for their 'generally' smaller size. The Pinks form an unnatural bridge between those evolved separation traits so at best any impact is difficult to quantify at the moment. Though if history teaches us anything - with both sea trout and Atlantic salmon already suffering from a multitude of limiting factors, any other 'as yet' benign (on the face of it) imbalances within their freshwater phase (both juvenile and spawning) will most likely not end well. As anglers it's sometimes difficult to see beyond our own, sometimes self-serving needs, though we should be mindful that it is not only Atlantic salmon and sea trout that have evolved without the inclusion of Pacific salmon in our rivers. Any potential impact should be viewed from a much broader perspective. It is true that pink salmon juveniles have left their natal systems before they're 0+ (so within a year of hatching), though their time in the freshwater phase, both as returning adults and emerging juveniles is more than sufficient to create problems.

 

In the meantime, should anyone be 'fortunate' enough to snag a wretched Pink - don't be shy with the wood shampoo.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I read marine biology and zoology at university and I've just learned loads more here. The posts about why fw salmon do not feed yet will take a fly are fascinating. I'm trying to draw a parallel with another animal with a more developed central nervous system but I've drawn a blank.

 

Are there any other theories as to why they will take a fly but not feed? Also, are there other species where this is the case?

 

Regards

 

GG

I read marine biology and zoology at university and I've just learned loads more here. The posts about why fw salmon do not feed yet will take a fly are fascinating. I'm trying to draw a parallel with another animal with a more developed central nervous system but I've drawn a blank.

 

Are there any other theories as to why they will take a fly but not feed? Also, are there other species where this is the case?

 

Regards

 

GG

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I read marine biology and zoology at university and I've just learned loads more here. The posts about why fw salmon do not feed yet will take a fly are fascinating. I'm trying to draw a parallel with another animal with a more developed central nervous system but I've drawn a blank.

Are there any other theories as to why they will take a fly but not feed? Also, are there other species where this is the case?

Regards

GGI read marine biology and zoology at university and I've just learned loads more here. The posts about why fw salmon do not feed yet will take a fly are fascinating. I'm trying to draw a parallel with another animal with a more developed central nervous system but I've drawn a blank.

Are there any other theories as to why they will take a fly but not feed? Also, are there other species where this is the case?

Regards

GG

I'm not a salmon fisherman, but I always imagined it was down to aggression - a bit like when a trout go's for something that doesnt resemble food - say an orange blob.

 

Nobody seems to know for certain why they do it though

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I'm not a salmon fisherman, but I always imagined it was down to aggression - a bit like when a trout go's for something that doesnt resemble food - say an orange blob.

 

Nobody seems to know for certain why they do it though

Orange blob = a fish egg, trout love em.

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I think it is about aggression and a feeding memory reaction, if you see a Salmons reaction to an angler casting a prawn or shrimp into its close proximity (it's lie) I have watched a Salmon rush aggressively at a purple shrimp as soon as it hits the water, take it into its mouth and open and shut its mouth (crush it) several times before 'spitting' it out, turning and moving away leaving me with a slack line! I.e. It didn't hook itself!

It is also interesting that a Salmon will take a bunch of worms chomp (crush) and swallow them hook and all!.....as they apparently don't feed (allegedly, incapable of feeding?) in fresh water?

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Orange blob = a fish egg, trout love em.

Yes, I've heard that, also that they resemble chunks of dead salmon after spawning. Not sure I totaly agree with fish egg theory though - why would a sterile/UV treated rainbow that has never seen a fish egg in its life go after a blob with such aggression? Also, I've read that trout flies work better as caricatures rarther than straight up replicas of things - but arnt most blob flies significantly larger than trout eggs?

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There will be whole books written on the subject and many folks will have spent a lifetime trying to figure it out (I've never managed to figure it out very successfully :unhappy: )

 

Panoma above about sums it up but then u also have the difference between fresh run salmon and red/stale salmon, moving salmon (fish just moved into a pool vs more resident fish)

U'd think the longer a fish is in the river the more hunger would take over but many folk would say the oppisate that fresh run fish take easier (possibly the feeding memory is fresher?).

 

Most salmon fishers will have there own theories based on wot works for them on there own rivers/favourite pools/spots, but how many are actually factual rather than coincidental I have no idea, but saying that many good fishers can go to new rivers and still catch fish no problems when others aren't

 

On many rivers shrimps are banned as meant to be lethal, but u speak to folk who's rivers allow it an they say it's not as lethal as made out.

Althou many beats do ban worms or spinners at low water, but I thought it was more to do with the way the fish get hooked using worm/shrimp making it harder to unhook and release fish.

Dunno the score in Eng but nowadays in scot most/many rivers are now 100% catch and release, for Salmon, Sea trout and even Brown trout

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Scotslad, it is my opinion that fresh run Spring Salmon are the free(er) 'takers' especially in very cold water with a few extra inches of water on, they will not chase often, but will sometimes take (usually quite gently!) a slowly fished unweighted Devon Minnow (with the weight some 3ft up the trace) bumped along the bottom, if you know the lies or if the Salmon 'show' their presence and if the fish is rested and yours is the first bait that day past it's nose..........you stand a good chance it will "take"...........early Salmon tend to give Anglers a better (and more!) chance as they move upstream more slowly!

 

As the season progresses into late spring/early summer when conditions are favourable (water holding up and warmer?) fish seem to move upstream faster! the upstream condom is a killing method for fresh and freshish fish, fished fast and high or midwater, medium to slow speed (ring the changes!) as you choose.......same with the across and downstream fly! Or slowly fished worm, or even a plug! you can however try an upstream condom stripped downstream as fast as you like and Salmon will chase, catch up with it and take it with a real bang!..........Then feel it go!

 

As summer progresses and the water temperature continues to rise and the river is 'on its bones' the Salmon are more difficult (impossible! Lol!) to tempt, the condom fished into deeper water, will however, especially in the early morning, still occasionally work, but not as often as earlier in the year and this is when the worm or shrimp (where allowed) fished across and down, on the right day, can work!....in these conditions, if you get a 'take' it's difficult to know who is the most surprised?.......You or the fish! Lol!

 

As autumn arrives the fish, even stale ones seem to come back 'on the take' fishing deeper and slower with fly or bait seems to be the best methods for success?.....but these fish are usually past their best, condition wise.

 

These are my own observations having Salmon fished all over the UK and Eire.......I certainly do not claim they are definitive! But I would be interested in other Anglers experiences.

 

Believe me, in the right hands the shrimp (especially under a float!) can be absolutely deadly! I witnessed an expert shrimp angler take nine Salmon in an hour and a half....not in the UK though!

 

Sorry if this post has veered off topic!

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