protein level

[ips]

My cocker has been on Arden grange adult for four months ish and last week moved to Arden grange performance. The last month or so she does not seem to have the same energy level. This could be coincidental maybe at three she has just calmed down a bit , she also had a season in June. But I am wondering if the protein level isn't high enough at 18% any thoughts ??

[Stonepark]

If not working you can get by with 18% but for a 1 day a week working dog 21% does better.

 

For a real hard worker 23% to 27% may be required.

[ips]

I will be dogging in daily starting in a week or so. Then beating every Monday and every other Saturday from Nov 4th 😞

[lee-kinsman]

I use Chudleys working crunch at 24% 50/50 mix with raw.

IMO, They do need at least 20% protein just to maintain during rest and about 30% when they are going at it.

[scotslad]

I'm not so sure it's just as simple as that

 

I mind looking a different brands protein levels and some brands working active dog labelled food had less protein than their normal dog food. made no sense to me

Even some of the more expensive brands 'active' feed had less protein, I mind looking at tinned dog food for feeding my dogs at lunch time on the moors and even tinned dog food can be 80% moisture and not a lot of protein.

 

U can also up the amount u are feeding too, mine are getting almost twice wot I feed in the close season.

Sometimes either feeding too much quantity or too high protein can make them runny/skittery

 

Was ur last feed doing ok with ur dog? if it ain't broke and ur dog seemed to enjoy it and keep condition

[ips]

Scotslad

We struggled to find anything that didn't go straight through her. Wainwrights hypo was the one before this which seemed to suit her but she took some persuading to eat it. She likes the Arden grange however her stamina is definitely lower recently. Having said that I cut the amount down a month or so ago to get some weight off.

[12gauge82]

Don't forget with protein levels in dog food it can be very misleading, most of the cheap brands include undigestible food that while is included as protein on the analysis can't be fully utilised by the dog, there's no such thing as a free lunch and on a separate issue I can't stand it when I here people feed their dogs things like wagg and think their dogs doing fine on it 😕

[scotslad]

And how do u describe/define if a dog is doing 'well'?

 

Wot is the minimum price of dog food that is acceptable?

[12gauge82]

And how do u describe/define if a dog is doing 'well'?

 

Wot is the minimum price of dog food that is acceptable?

Exactly, I've seen several people on here saying their dog is doing 'Well', or 'thrieving' ect (their words not mine), I can only assume they're gauging their opinion by the fact their dog is still alive. As for cost it is of course down to the ingredients in the food which is obviously a very complex and subjective thing, however I guarantee you, you won't get a high quality dog food paying 10-15 quid for 15kg and dog food like wagg (along with some of the so called preimium dog foods) will be full of grains and undigestible animal bi-products which allows the manufacturers to legaly bump up the protien content advertised on the bag, the fact the dog cant utilise it doesnt bother them.

[motty]

I feed my dogs on Wagg food from time to time, for varying periods. When I look at my current working dog, I see nothing other than a fit, strong, muscular dog, with a fantastic shiny coat. I don't think his food is doing him too much harm.

[scotslad]

Exactly, I've seen several people on here saying their dog is doing 'Well', or 'thrieving' ect (their words not mine), I can only assume they're gauging their opinion by the fact their dog is still alive. As for cost it is of course down to the ingredients in the food which is obviously a very complex and subjective thing, however I guarantee you, you won't get a high quality dog food paying 10-15 quid for 15kg and dog food like wagg (along with some of the so called preimium dog foods) will be full of grains and undigestible animal bi-products which allows the manufacturers to legaly bump up the protien content advertised on the bag, the fact the dog cant utilise it doesnt bother them.

 

So wot do u describe as thriving?

 

Must admit my dogs have been on wagg almost all there lives (apart from a couple of years when on greyhound feed) I don't know anyone who runs a pack of dogs that feeds anything but cheaper food brands, even keepers/shepherds who get free dog food.

If racing greyhound kennels are feeding 10 quid bags for dogs that there reputation depends on there can't be much wrong with it

 

I'm like motty my dogs look nothing but healthy, very rarely ever at the vet, apart from last week (spaniel with something in its eye) been years (4-5) since they seen a vet.

My old lab has just gone 12 and just done his 1st day of season on sat and still bright as a button the next day, been meaning to retire him for 2 years but keeps on going and more importantly never seems to suffer from it the next day..

My dogs generally do 50ish days a season most years and have done 100ish a couple off times all on budget food/wagg without losing much condition at all

 

Can't ever say my dogs have lacked energy even on the cheap food.

I'm sure some dogs will not get on with certain types of food but that is equally true of more expensive brands too

[simjakcal]

I use Chudleys working crunch at 24% 50/50 mix with raw.

IMO, They do need at least 20% protein just to maintain during rest and about 30% when they are going at it.

 

Raw and Dry really should not be mixed, they digest at different rates ..

[12gauge82]

 

So wot do u describe as thriving?

 

Must admit my dogs have been on wagg almost all there lives (apart from a couple of years when on greyhound feed) I don't know anyone who runs a pack of dogs that feeds anything but cheaper food brands, even keepers/shepherds who get free dog food.

If racing greyhound kennels are feeding 10 quid bags for dogs that there reputation depends on there can't be much wrong with it

 

I'm like motty my dogs look nothing but healthy, very rarely ever at the vet, apart from last week (spaniel with something in its eye) been years (4-5) since they seen a vet.

My old lab has just gone 12 and just done his 1st day of season on sat and still bright as a button the next day, been meaning to retire him for 2 years but keeps on going and more importantly never seems to suffer from it the next day..

My dogs generally do 50ish days a season most years and have done 100ish a couple off times all on budget food/wagg without losing much condition at all

 

Can't ever say my dogs have lacked energy even on the cheap food.

I'm sure some dogs will not get on with certain types of food but that is equally true of more expensive brands too

I don't want to start an argument or anything and obviously what you choose to feed your dogs is entirely up to you, however it seems obvious to me that if a person was to spend their entire life eating nothing but junk food although that person would be alive they would likely not be as well later on in life, why would it be any different for dogs, the vast majority of ingredients in cheap dog food, (and all commercial food to an extent in fairness) is not even made of food a dog/wolf would naturally eat i.e cereals. There's a wealth of research and information out there if anyone wants to look it Up, all I'll say further on this is if anyone values their dog, spending 10 quid on a bag of dog food is not going to help keep a dog healthy for it's life span.

[lee-kinsman]

 

Raw and Dry really should not be mixed, they digest at different rates ..

Why is that a problem?

[R1nut]

Don't go by the %on the front, look from where these levels are sourced.

There are basically two types of protein and the cheaper end of the market tend to put the stuff that's not absorbed as well.

[ips]

So are we saying that my 18% job could effectively have more "good" protein than some that may quote 25% (for instance) ??

[12gauge82]

So are we saying that my 18% job could effectively have more "good" protein than some that may quote 25% (for instance) ??

Very possible Yes, although also possible the manufacturer has just bumped the price up on a equally inferior product, it's definitely worth doing a bit of research imho

[R1nut]

So are we saying that my 18% job could effectively have more "good" protein than some that may quote 25% (for instance) ??

The easiest way to put it is the protein they can use or the protein they run off!! If you were to feed a kid on junk food it would be ok but generally either lethargic or off the scale, feed that kid a balanced proper diet and watch the difference!!

We spent hours and years educating ourselves on dog food and have tried a lot, what works for one doesn't mean it will work for another.

Best advice is, go back to basics and see where protein is gained from and work from there.

[ips]

Cheers 👍

[12gauge82]

Another thing worth noting is instant energy release from food is not really from protein, think of protein as the building blocks for growth and repair, the body can convert it into energy if needs be but carbohydrates are used more for instant energy release, think eating a banana before going for a run, I believe dogs can also extract energy more efficiently from fats to.

Edited August 15, 2017 by 12gauge82

[R1nut]

Another thing worth noting is instant energy release from food is not really from protein, think of protein as the building blocks for growth and repair, the body can convert it into energy if needs be but carbohydrates are used more for instant energy release, think eating a banana before going for a run, I believe dogs can also extract energy more efficiently from fats to.

Yep totally agree! It's all about a balanced diet

[WGD]

I fed Arden Grange adult for a few years, I thought the protein level was about 24%? Always found it a very good food. Tried the Prestige or Performance or something once but whilst they might have had more energy they had the concentration span of a goldfish on speed.

 

Personally I now like to feed a good quality, low protein complete food - no more than 20% - augment with green tripe and sometimes a wet complete food - something like Nature's Diet - and get the dogs properly fit rather than relying on food to make them go. They have plenty of go in their mind, they just need to have a body in condition to keep up with it.

 

Moisture content and hydration levels also make a huge difference, sometimes I'll just feed wet food or tripe the day before a trial or a long day's shooting so they don't have to take on too much water having had the dry food.

[ips]

Funny you should mention water, she has never seemed to drink that much. Wont touch anything when working, well rarely anyway.

 

The research I did Arden grange performance was 18%

[WGD]

The performance is about 30% is it not?

[WGD]

From the AG website (sorry don't know where the nice green highlighting came from):

 

Adult:

Analytical Constituents: Crude Protein 25%, Fat Content 16%, Crude Ash 9.5%, Crude Fibres 2.5%, Calcium 2.2%, Phosphorous 1.5%, Omega-3 0.53%, Omega-6 3.17%.

 

 

Performance:

Analytical Constituents: Crude Protein 25%, Fat Content 18%, Crude Ash 6.5%, Crude Fibres 2.4%, Calcium 1.4%, Phosphorous 1%, Omega-3 0.53%, Omega-6 3.71%, Taurine 1000 mg/kg, L-carnitine (50mg/kg).

 

Prestige:

Analytical Constituents: Crude Protein 30%, Fat Content 21%, Crude Ash 7%, Crude Fibres 3%, Calcium 1.4%, Phosphorous 0.95%, Omega-3 1.10%, Omega-6 4.85%.

Edited August 15, 2017 by WGD