Travellers have ignored the law for too long

[Flashman]

An interesting piece from today's Times about the traveller community.

 

"A slavery case highlights the danger of allowing a force-field of cultural sensitivity to get in the way of hard truths

 

Dumped in filthy caravans, strung out on drugs, fed leftovers, worked like dogs. Reading how modern-day slaves were treated by the Rooney family in Lincolnshire, a question from anti-slavery campaigns centuries ago came to mind: “Am I not a man and a brother?” The case begs 21st-century questions too: how on earth could this carry on for so long? Why wasn’t it detected sooner? One answer may lie in the location of the crimes. The captives were held on traveller sites; out of the mainstream, out of sight.

 

One abhorrent case does not taint all travellers, just as terror attacks should not taint all Muslims or paedophile priests all Catholics. But it is a reminder of how closed-off parts of the traveller community are; how behind this wall of separateness some choose to live by their own rules, and how damaging this can be.

 

Britain is a pretty liberal country. We respect people’s freedom to live as they please, within the law. But when separateness grows to mean a scant regard for the laws and courtesies that frame life for most of us, we have a serious problem.

 

A force-field of cultural sensitivity surrounds gypsies, Roma and travellers, at least in officialdom. Recognised as ethnic minorities, any criticism of their way of life can be labelled racist. Trevor Phillips, former chairman of the Equality and Human Rights Commission, has said that for gypsies and travellers “Great Britain is still like the American Deep South for black people in the 1950s”. Phillips is a sensible man but his analogy isn’t. It suggests that the prejudice (which undoubtedly exists) is not connected to behaviour.

 

You do not need to be a racist of the white hood-wearing tendency to groan at the prospect of a traveller encampment pitching up in

your local park. Reports of antisocial behaviour and intimidation are common, as are complaints of mess when the camp moves on. In the past couple of months travellers have issued death threats to council officers who tried to move them on in Sutton Coldfield; forced a school in West Sussex into lockdown after they broke on to their property; set up camp in an Ocado warehouse in Kent, having to be forced out by the police; dumped tonnes of rubbish in Bromley; and smashed into a playing field in West Bromwich with a mechanical digger.

The response of the authorities can seem painfully weak. Before going to court to get an eviction order councils must first assess the welfare needs of those on the site. Money that might have been spent on services is sucked up by legal fees. An endless game of cat and mouse is played, with councils evicting groups from one unauthorised site only for them to move to another.

 

The authorities seem weak too on the issue of schooling for traveller children. The law states that you must ensure your child receives an education from five to 16. Yet in many traveller communities secondary education is seen as optional. According to one think tank 12,000 traveller pupils are not enrolled in secondary school. For those who do attend the truancy rate is four times the national average. Literacy rates are dire. An estimated 3 to 4 per cent of travellers go to university, compared with 43 per cent of young people nationally. And so the wall of separation and suspicion between travellers and the rest of us remains.

 

This is the current approach: an endless cycle of evictions but otherwise turning a “culturally sensitive” blind eye when travellers don’t follow the rules. Well, it isn’t working. It is wasting money and causing distress. It is deepening the divisions between travellers and the rest of society. And it is failing the children who grow up with few qualifications and severely limited chances in life (not to mention poorer health and lower life expectancy).

 

Central and local government need to grasp the nettle and forge a new contract with travellers. This must reconcile the desire of many to lead nomadic lives with their responsibilities as citizens. Crucially, it must offer carrot as well as stick.

 

The first action should be a major building programme to create an adequate number of authorised traveller pitches, with proper sanitation and energy facilities. Some might balk at the investment but it is no good asking people to move on if there is nowhere to go. If local opposition makes it tough to find suitable land, the green belt should be considered. Travellers could move between these sites but in each they would be obliged to register. With proper information on where they were, local authorities could monitor everything from truancy to the paying of council tax. Those refusing to pay tax or educate their children would be pursued through normal legal routes.

 

To ensure travellers use authorised sites, councils and police must be swifter in evicting them from illegal sites or preventing them setting up in the first place. In June Harlow council won a three-year injunction that bans travellers from setting up unauthorised camps in the town. With 320 sites protected, anyone breaching the injunction faces a fine or custodial sentence. Other councils should follow suit. If this is not workable the law should be changed to give police the power to evict anyone setting up camp on public land immediately. They have powers to move travellers on under Section 61 of the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994 but this requires evidence of serious criminality. The bar for eviction is too high and must be brought down.

 

There are many travellers who wish to live peaceably and lawfully while keeping alive their culture. This approach is fair to them because it recognises the desire to move around and provides the space to do so. It is fair to the settled population too, because of the principle at its heart: whatever our lifestyle we are all British citizens and must abide by the same rules and the same laws."

[Scully]

Yes, interesting, but no more than pie in the sky I'm afraid. It'll never happen.

[Pigeon Shredder.]

Slow day at the office was it.

Never will happen.

[Walker570]

Yes, interesting, but no more than pie in the sky I'm afraid. It'll never happen.

plus one.

 

There is the good, bad and ugly in any community, but in the 'travelling' community, the bad and ugly are at the forefront. Years ago when I was a village copper we had a family set up on a piece of wide verge near to a small village. Their vehicles and caravans and themselves spotless and after four weeks all that was left on the verge were the tyre marks. If I remember correctly they were door to door carpet sellers. Never a problem and one year, I was called, one of their small children had contracted some illness needing hospitalisation. The local community supported them being allowed to stay on the site for three more weeks till the child was better. They were the good.

NOW, in my 28yrs in the job I have a list which there is not room on this forum to lay out of the bad and the ugly. Ireland kicked them out and they came here and we did nothing about it. The police have no balls and will not venture into the permanent camps unless hard pressed.

[Ollieollie]

Normal legal routes. Well they don't work anyway. And why should they have somewhere nice made for them to live while we have to work hard to provide ourselves with the same?

I'm doubtful they pay tax, yes we pay to have them moved each time but the problem is not being solved just passed on. If the normal legal routes were more effective the problem might be solved once and for all, and not just for travellers but all corners of the scrounging community.

[owain]

Yes, interesting, but no more than pie in the sky I'm afraid. It'll never happen.

Very true, it won't happen because they don't want it to happen. There is a gypsie camp near where I live, it's well run with good facilities and the ones that live there are generally well behaved, because if they aren't they get into bother with the guy who runs it.

The ones who travel about like that way of life because they can do what they like to who they like and have very little come back. They live outside the law and society but seem to feel hard done by when people don't want them anywhere near them.

[Gordon R]

Walker570 - very true. Lad near me had his bike stolen - followed the thief to a site about 2 miles away. Phoned the Police who refused to attend, even though the lad could see his bike being ridden around the site.

 

I have had a number of dealings with travellers - none good, with the exception of Billy Bell, who owns a clay shoot in Great Yarmouth. One of the most generous and genuine individuals I have ever met.

[inthedark]

The first action should be a major building programme to create an adequate number of authorised traveller pitches - -

 

My local council did this, and it was stripped bare of water pipe, electric cable and anything else worth a few quid then abandoned in the blink of an eye. Wasters.

[subsonicnat]

Why does the eviction on regular sites keep coming round and round,Once barred from the site it should be forever,,if it takes 3 weeks to kick them off again,plus expense..

Perhaps it is time they weretold they are not wanted anywhere..

If they get taken to court they are in the next county the following day.

The kids are given schooling that disrupts the whole school?

Only learning they want,is done at home,pick a lock,break a lock,Theiving on the quiet..

Con men dressed in suits,The list goes on..

You want to see the mess left behind in Appleby..

They do not deserve sites,keep the scum on the move all the time.

Ask the farmers what they think, Stitch them up with buckshot,They just see it as a way to get compensation..

No,,I do not have the answer.But the way they dealt with that family is a start..

[Donegalcharlie]

With the way every thing is now every one is so worried about being P.C that they wouldn't want to offend one side or the other. They are all the one sows litter! Wasters!! Seen it here not far from Belfast made a whole site for them we did the water the gov bought prefab toilets with showers in them rigged the electric up so each caravan that pulled in to its place on the site would have a meter card to put electric in. Hot water for the showers an all what did they do? Well pulled out the mains rigged the electric ran cables to each caravan. The connections were all bare so when it rained it must have blew the switch. Talk about a death trap they wrecked the prefab toilets that were in brand new nick when they went in. Also wrecked the water connections some of them. We get called into fix this 6 months later because they complain they cant live in a place in that state.. what is their problem. What is the solution.

[Rewulf]

All traveller threads dont last long.

Mainly because someone starts saying what they would like to do to them ect, which is dodgy ground for this forum and its rules.

They are an ethnic minority in the loosest sense of the word, mostly Irish tinker stock, they have interbred with the few Roma that were left, and now they are all Roma.

Ive had people I went to school with adopt the lifestyle, accent, and now they too are treated as an ethnic minority,with all the benefits, its ridiculous !

As I remember the classification stems from a high court test case, when a pub put a sign outside banning 'travellers'

I despair at the useless, kid glove treatment they receive, which emboldens them to push the boundaries further and further.

They have no respect for 'normal' people ,little for themselves,and no shame whatsoever.

[daveboy]

Make trespass a criminal offence (as in Ireland)

[rimfire4969]

Make trespass a criminal offence (as in Ireland)

[Scully]

I have the utmost respect for genuine Romanies but they are a truly ethnic minority.

Those which claim immunity under this title are nothing of the sort.

There was a time Cusroms and Excise regularly dipped the vehicles of all those who entered the town and the car park behind the cop shop was filled with seized vehicles. Doesn't happen now as it is against their human rights as an ethnic minority apparently.

Time was when youths were not allowed to carry 'switches' ( short horse whips ) which were often used to flick at visitors and locals; now they are allowed to carry them again even when they have no pony. To you and me that's an offensive weapon.

They drive around town with no seat belts whilst on their phones in clear view of the police, who simply wave them on to keep the traffic moving, and traffic wardens are nowhere to be seen.

It would be hilarious if it weren't so annoying.

[Twistedsanity]

The root of the problem lies within the laws inability to prosecute, remember all the "freeman of the land" garbage that was being touted about a few years back and the term "strawman"?

If you don't have a national insurance number, available birth certificate or permanent place of residence the law is completely powerless. So Mr Murphy where should I send the court papers to? which Mr murphy are you as there seem to be several hundred? can you provide proof of identity to ensure we don't spend the next twenty years and thousands of pounds of taxpayers money sending the summonses to the wrong Mr Murphy's? Are you really Mr Murphy sir? What is your date of birth? After we forcibly evict you next week from this land where should I send the bill for the damages to? The police know the law is powerless as do the "travellers" who make a mockery out of it which is why they get away with what they do, if we didn't have homes, credit, national insurance numbers and available birth certificates we could all do the same but we are very much "in the system" from birth, I'm not convinces either way if that's a good or a bad thing though

[Twistedsanity]

The first action should be a major building programme to create an adequate number of authorised traveller pitches - -

 

My local council did this, and it was stripped bare of water pipe, electric cable and anything else worth a few quid then abandoned in the blink of an eye. Wasters.

 

they don't want traveller pitches. That means they have a permanent address and are "in the system" and liable to the laws and acts of this country like any other person

[guzzicat]

Strange there never seems to be a problem around about Balmoral with these road rats pulling up & setting up camp.The thing is the law needs to WANT to solve the problem, seize a few untaxed motors & those running on red fuel, & crush them, etc., but when they move off a site they leave Leylandi cuttings & hedge trimmings, so people respond to their" do it on the cheap claim "be it roof repairs, tarmac laying, garden work etc. ;stil people keep feeding them . I had a knock on the door a while back offering socket sets, generators Etc.( I declined),They had parked on local golf course, left it wrecked, & a transit with no engine, & yes loads of garden waste, I hope the person who paid then to clear his garden was a golf club member

[Vince Green]

A lot of members of the travelling community are actually very wealthy and own houses and land in Limerick Southern Ireland.

 

Quite a few years back the Irish Government tried to flush them out the Republic by passing a law making it illegal not to have home. More or less a version of our Vagrancy Act.

 

It backfired though because they responded by buying up pockets of cheap land in Limerick. Years on they have built houses on the land (with or without permission, mostly without) buying more land and the rest, as they say, is history.

 

The lifestyle we see them living today is through choice, not necessity

Edited August 16, 2017 by Vince Green

[Dead-Eyed Duck]

Where I live the local authority are pushing through plans to build 8,000 homes on mainly green belt land.

 

There is lots of annoyance, and disruption amongst the community, but that's the way it goes nowadays.

 

One gem is that the local traveller camp (illegally founded of course, with lots more living there than are supposed to) is being recognised in the plan as being worthy of a preservation order.

 

You just couldn't make it up - no doubt they (the travellers) will sell the land off to a developer for a huge, enormous profit - which of course they will not pay tax on.....

[Me matt]

Travellers - not what they use to be.

As a child I remember the local farmers preparing laybys for the influx of seasonal pickers and there associated caravan convoys.

Now they just pull up on paying fields/parks- install a few shonky drive ways, butcher a few trees then abruptly **** off.

[inthedark]

Travellers - not what they use to be.

As a child I remember the local farmers preparing laybys for the influx of seasonal pickers and there associated caravan convoys.

Now they just pull up on paying fields/parks- install a few shonky drive ways, butcher a few trees then abruptly **** off.

 

Tease me again with that bit where they abruptly **** off

[martyn2233]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4208523/southend-councillor-travellers-thieves-email-ireland-uk/

[Penelope]

The town has been blighted by them recently.

 

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4208523/southend-councillor-travellers-thieves-email-ireland-uk/

[Pigeon Shredder.]

The town has been blighted by them recently.

 

Maybe reopen the Broomsticks road and let them use that route to settle on Foulness.

Ho, and a tide table.

[Penelope]

Good idea, but minus the tide table.

 

Maybe reopen the Broomsticks road and let them use that route to settle on Foulness.
Ho, and a tide table.