Water supply setup- Spring on hill to house.

[nabbers]

Any of you chaps on a private water supply piped from a spring or stream up hill from your house? What does the system consist of? What problems have you had?

[ditchman]

if you are lucky enough to have a water source above you....and it tests clean.....i would imajine all you need is to cover and protect the source....pipe what you need ...have an inline filter ...bobs yer uncle..............the problem starts when you have to put expensive filtration in to make it to a portable standard...........(also im sure there would be some sort of reg's involving notification to the E.A.)

 

just my thoughts....

 

is there enough flow to install a generator...even if it is 12v ?....with a set of batteries that could supply all your lighting needs... !!

Edited September 12, 2017 by ditchman

[vampire]

Any of you chaps on a private water supply piped from a spring or stream up hill from your house? What does the system consist of? What problems have you had?

Its probaly better quality than the stuff we get from mains,have water softener and water filtration or the dogs wont drink it unless they have too.

You Tube it plenty on there and check what regs you need to comply with,then bottle it and your quids in.

[figgy]

People I know have a spring that feeds their house. They have a large hold tank so the house is gravity fed as the spring can slow down in drier spells so it may not produce the flow they need that instant.

 

Have the water checked for chemicals and heavy metals and pathogens, if you do go for filtration get one with a uv light. Can't beat clean spring water, no added stuff by water boards.

[scotslad]

We have a system like figgy describes, most will have a couple of small settlement tanks before ur large storage tank and then an individual UV and filters in the house.

U might need to protect the spring source from stock contaiments etc

U need about 33ft of height for every bar of pressure, if u haven't the height u can put a pump in as it comes into ur house.

 

Really quite simple systems, but worth getting a opinion of a decent old fashioned country plumber, I imagine the plumbers that put them in are getting fewer and fewer, just to make sure u have the flow and wot sort of size of holding tank u want (bigger generally better but u also don't want it too big water gets stale)

[nabbers]

Knowledgable country chaps on here so thought its a good place to ask! Its an existing system that hasn't killed anyone yet, but is at a stage where repairs are needed. I wondered if it was the best setup. A concrete basin about the size of a bathroom sink formed next to the spring has a spill away at the front meaning 4 inches of water is held there and replenished constantly. A 25mm pipe leads from there to the settling tank about 8 metres away. This made from concrete blocks walled flat ways and is 1.5m x 1m x 1m deep. The sediment sinks to the bottom and the supply pipe to the house pops out of the tank side about 16" off the bottom so its grabbing sediment free water. Its all worked fine for 40 years.

 

But now there is a leak in either the tank or supply pipe to the house as the water level has dropped by 2 feet, Guess by blocking the supply pipe at the tank and seeing if the level rises I can tell if it it is the tank or the supply pipe which is leaking?

 

If it is the tank and its not obvious where, can I 'tank' it out with a tanking solution like i have used for damp proofing house and cellar walls? A cement and latex solution yo paint on? Guess there is a product safe for potable water supplies?

 

If its the supply pipe which is half a mile long then how do I find the leak? I'd dowse but its running in a silted over marshy stream bed.

 

The tank has had a lid made from fencing posts - if tanalised, nasty chemicals leaching out there! I was thinking getting one made from aluminium tread plate but then you read about aluminium causing Alzheimer so galvanised steel?

 

8" of silt in there right now I was wondering if a fine net would be the best thing to clean out like people use in fish ponds.

 

No filter at the house.

Edited September 13, 2017 by nabbers

[rimfire4969]

If it's the tank I would just replace it with a plastic tank and lid build for the purpose. I would also look at adding a uv filter and getting the water tested. With that amount of sediment I would also be thinking about some filtration.

[JDog]

One of the potential problems with a spring is the likelihood of Ecoliform bacteria. This is present in animal faeces.

[nabbers]

If it's the tank I would just replace it with a plastic tank and lid build for the purpose. I would also look at adding a uv filter and getting the water tested. With that amount of sediment I would also be thinking

 

One of the potential problems with a spring is the likelihood of Ecoliform bacteria. This is present in animal faeces.

 

about some filtration.

 

Yes forgot about plastic tanks, maybe a plastic tank could be inserted inside the concrete one.

 

The area around the spring is fenced off but the odd dead mouse appears there so we currently drink bottled water!

[oldypigeonpopper]

hello, i helped a farmer find a leaking pipe across his field from the farm to a cattle drinking trough, once you find the line of the pipe you need to dig out some slit trenches then depending on the water pressure and type of pipe plastic or ? you can hear running water noise, the nearer the leak the louder the noise, we used a hearing leak detecter stick with a trumpet like top you put your ear to when i worked on thames water leak detecting main pipes and supply pipes some times at night when pressure is high, i presume yours is a steel pipe ? once you check tank and thats ok then it must be the supply line so have you looked for signs of fresh water bubbling up along the stream bed ? just to note if you know its the supply pipe you might have to look at a complete renew line if its impossable you dont find leak, i worked on thames water many years and found using 2 copper rods to find pipe lines better than any electronic gadget but that was in the 1980s, my son has an irrigation company and uses a CAT pipe detector, my friends farm i shoot on is supplied with water by a spring and they had to renew the old steel pipes to the blue plastic main and that was about 500 yards, if you have no choice but to renew your half a mile eg 880 yards i would suggest putting in stop taps x 4 so in future you can shut off the line at different intervals in case of further problems.

Edited September 13, 2017 by oldypigeonpopper

[scotslad]

My house supply comes out of a communal spring/tank set up which has just went throu something similar, lack of mainetance/needing repair.

For such a simple system It actually turned quite stressful dealing with neighbours, esp as some have no common sense and took it upon themselves to be in charge.

 

1st thing I'd do is stick a UV light and filter set up, loads of different types of filters for different things (a neighbour has went over the top with his an has 5 filters fitted for different things)

 

Does ur tank/pipe system not have any stopcocks??

If it does it just a case of turning of stopcocks and isolating parts of the pipe/tank and seeing if the tank level rises and falls

I thought I read it was 40yrs old? But looking back throu I can't see it, if it is 40yrs old I'd guess it would be old imperial sized alkyethene (often 28mm ish)

Must admit similar to above I've used 2 bits of fencing wire to find water pipes and drains, no idea how it works but it does. Althou it won't help if over wet ground.

Mibee waiting until a really dry spell or frost weather, in frosty weather any springs/leaks will stay green not white (but could be blocked field drain)

 

Ur holding tank is about 1500L which if it full most of the time even in drier times must be ok for ur demand compared to the spring supply.

U could almost just drop an IBC tank in ur existing tank.

Too be honest I think I would just go out and buy a proper new tank, nowadays there sort of enclosed lids.

It's quite important the tanks are covered with lids to stop carp falling in an also to stop sunlight/UV getting in

[oldypigeonpopper]

hello, i helped a farmer find a leaking pipe across his field from the farm to a cattle drinking trough, once you find the line of the pipe you need to dig out some slit trenches then depending on the water pressure and type of pipe plastic or ? you can hear running water noise, the nearer the leak the louder the noise, we used a hearing leak detecter stick with a trumpet like top you put your ear to when i worked on thames water leak detecting main pipes and supply pipes some times at night when pressure is high, i presume yours is a steel pipe ? once you check tank and thats ok then it must be the supply line so have you looked for signs of fresh water bubbling up along the stream bed ? just to note if you know its the supply pipe you might have to look at a complete renew line if its impossable you dont find leak, i worked on thames water many years and found using 2 copper rods to find pipe lines better than any electronic gadget but that was in the 1980s, my son has an irrigation company and uses a CAT pipe detector, my friends farm i shoot on is supplied with water by a spring and they had to renew the old steel pipes to the blue plastic main and that was about 500 yards, if you have no choice but to renew your half a mile eg 880 yards i would suggest putting in stop taps x 4 so in future you can shut off the line at different intervals in case of further problems.

hello, just to add my dousing rods were copper coated gas mild steel welding rods 2/3mm diam, about 18 inches long with 4inches bent down for holding, hold in hands about 12 inches apart quite loose and test out over a known buried pipe they should close in straight when you are directly over, good luck for you

[scotslad]

hello, just to add my dousing rods were copper coated gas mild steel welding rods 2/3mm diam, about 18 inches long with 4inches bent down for holding, hold in hands about 12 inches apart quite loose and test out over a known buried pipe they should close in straight when you are directly over, good luck for you

 

I don't think it actually matters wot the wire is. I've used both HT and MS fencing wire bent the same as u mention. Both work the same

I had an electricity supply bloke out looking for a supply cable, he preferred copper wire and reckoned copper wire only signalled electric calbes, but my fencing wire indicated at the same place as his copper wire (and we never found the cable even using a cat and genny, but found 2 water pipes we never knew were there)

[Bigbob]

Reminds me of when i was a young staling ghillie in Glen Dessary and the house were supplied water from the burn , one day they stopped working a walk up the hill showed a dead sheep blocking the pipe . Pulled it out and the water was back on don't think we even flushed the system 40 years on im still here maybe we are to fussy these days

[CharlieT]

I have two setup's.

 

One from a spring and one from a borehole. Collection and storage are both treated the same way.

 

Water collected in a concrete rendered block tank, which has recently been changed to a large plastic tanks with a plastic lids which are then covered over with timber. The plastic tank sits in the old concrete one.

 

This is then gravity fed (the tank is at the top of a field) to two sediment filters, coarse and fine, and then through a UV filter before continuing its journey to the properties.

 

The sediment filters are about £100 each and UV sterilizesr, dependent on flow rate are £335 - £750. All + VAT.

My 5000 Ltr water tanks cost, I think, around £700 each.

[McSpredder]

 

8" of silt in there right now I was wondering if a fine net would be the best thing to clean out like people use in fish ponds.

Shouldn’t cost very much to hire a little submersible sludge pump and genset.

Local farmer with a vacuum tanker? Perhaps not, unless he happens to have a brand new suction pipe (one that has not spent its life dipped in pig/cattle slurry).

[TDS]

Sorry...Wrong info

Edited September 13, 2017 by TDS

[figgy]

Any potable water should be stored in a tank that's bylaw 30 compliant. Basically made of plastic so light can't get in,a fine screen-meshed air vent sealed lid and lagged to keep it cool.

 

If it was me doing it as use a reverse osmosis system before water going into storage tank. Settlement tanks would have a steep sloped bottom to a valve to flush any sediment regular. I've light kills a lot of stuff if you don't have one now I'd fit one.

 

Also don't bother looking for the leak in the pipe after forty years fit a new one.

 

Trouble you will have is if you bring a plumber in he will have to comply with current water regs. So your roman style cisterns may not comply.

Edited September 13, 2017 by figgy

[CharlieT]

Any potable water should be stored in a tank that's bylaw 30 compliant. Basically made of plastic so light can't get in,a fine screen-meshed air vent sealed lid and lagged to keep it cool.

 

If it was me doing it as use a reverse osmosis system before water going into storage tank. Settlement tanks would have a steep sloped bottom to a valve to flush any sediment regular. I've light kills a lot of stuff if you don't have one now I'd fit one.

 

Also don't bother looking for the leak in the pipe after forty years fit a new one.

 

Trouble you will have is if you bring a plumber in he will have to comply with current water regs. So your roman style cisterns may not comply.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding is that, as long as the water is only for one's personal home use water regulations and testing do not apply.

 

The council have statutory powers to inspect and test private water supplies where the supply is provided to third parties,such as rented properties etc, but not when the supply is for ones personal use.

 

The above is certainly what I have to comply with as regards to my properties under North Devon Council.

[scotslad]

I'm of a similar opinion as Charllie above. We just had plumbers in and they just tarted up the existing system (which sounds fairly similar to ur's) and ours is a communal system supplying 10 houses. And some of the work wasn't that tidy either

I was told the council can't shut down an existing supply even if it fails tests (but u might struggle to sell a house as most buyers would want a water cert)

 

Would be different if it was a new build u'd have to be up to modern standards, althou I don't think the modern standards are that onerous as I'm thinking about putting my own supply in I the future so I don't have to deal with the neigbours again, was very hard work (took them 6 months to fix a substantial leak while some houses had no water for a month)

 

1 of our old tanks just had a timber lid but if u google water tank lids there are companies out there that make custom lids for older tanks, some are not cheap thou so shop around.

another thing which may or may not help for ur system is measuring the water flow at various points (usually whereit goes into a tank) I simply used old paint pots and timed how long it took to fill. Will give u an idea of flow rates in different weather conditions and possibly how bad ur leak is (althou simplier to turn the flow off and see how quick tank goes down with no usage)

 

First I'd try to double check the tank is watertight before spending good money on a lid.

 

Quite often the holding tanks will have 2 stopcocks, 1 for the pipe work and 1 (scaur? valve) to empty tank.

I'd just open the scauer valve to drain the tank and get in with a bucket (or a bucket on a stick) and scoop the silt out, be wise to have the water turned of to ur house will u do it or it could get quite silty Or leave and outside tap open full to flush the silt out off system

 

The only word of caution i'd add is be cautious of emptying the tank/letting air in the system if it doesn't normally get into the system (which it shouldn't really) air locks are a real pain.

[figgy]

Here you go a link to the current water regs re private supplies.

 

https://consult.defra.gov.uk/water/drinking-water-regulations/supporting_documents/Draft%20SI%20Private%20Water%20Supplies%20England%20Regulations%202016.pdf

[CharlieT]

Here you go a link to the current water regs re private supplies.

 

https://consult.defra.gov.uk/water/drinking-water-regulations/supporting_documents/Draft%20SI%20Private%20Water%20Supplies%20England%20Regulations%202016.pdf

 

6 (2) being the get out clause for single dwelling own use consumption, which is why I do not have to comply, unless I so wish, with the regulations for my own home.

 

Sensibly, I do for the couple of properties I rent out.

[nabbers]

Some good advice so far here, thanks. We could go on to waterboard supply but the off the grid no bill factor appeals. Going to go up the hill tomorrow and block the house supply pipe for a short time (the stop cock at the tank is seized up solid). Then we can see what is happening tank leak or pipe leak! If a tank leak then an insulated tank that fits in the concrete tank sounds like a perfect solution, and will be the perfect opportunity to install filters and new stop taps etc!

[vampire]

Some good advice so far here, thanks. We could go on to waterboard supply but the off the grid no bill factor appeals. Going to go up the hill tomorrow and block the house supply pipe for a short time (the stop cock at the tank is seized up solid). Then we can see what is happening tank leak or pipe leak! If a tank leak then an insulated tank that fits in the concrete tank sounds like a perfect solution, and will be the perfect opportunity to install filters and new stop taps etc!

New tank will protect from freeze- and legonaires+ and proper lid prevents light.

Figgy,is right to say replace entire pipe run if it is leaking,have done a few pipe repairs and once you have one leak there will be more elsewhere on the run.

Copper is a natural bacteria killer,which is a shame most tap tails are rubber steel braided hoses,you should see the crud build up in these.

Pump should be at sourse of supply so its pumping to demand not pulling.

[scotslad]

Just to add, do u own the ground where the tank/pipes are??

By rights it should be in ur title deeds but if its an old system it should be all ok.

 

If the pipes are alkyethene any leaks are more likely to be at joints being forced apart rather. than holes in the pipe.

 

usually the filters/UV light is inside the house just after ur stop cock

 

The 1 problem u might have with putting a new tank inside the old 1 is connecting the outflow pipes. I might be tempted to dig the front face away so u have good access to connect everything up, but there may be other ways to plumb it soit may not be a problem, but nit a big jo for mini digger and realy not a massive job to hand ball either