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panoma1
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1 hour ago, Newbie to this said:

 

Agreed, the benefits system is not setup to get people back into work and I for one would much prefer to help people who want to work, rather than those who don't/won't.

The benifits system needs a major overhaul!

Agreed, but in theory it is just undergoing one called (God knows why as it doesn't seem to be either 'universal', or 'credit' - more like 'handout if you are lucky') "Universal Credit".  I don't fully understand the present need to wait 6 weeks - and don't believe it is correct in that 'advances' which IS credit can be made near instantly under the right circumstances ....... but like I say, I don't fully understand it.  However it was specifically intended that no one should be 'better off' under Universal Credit than when working.  What I believe is that when someone works, the reduction in their Universal Credit is a bit less than what they earn, so they are 'better off' by earning.  Doen't sound like much of an incentive to me, but it does seem better than what went before.

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I don't want a BMW, I don't want a German gun, I don't drink French plonk and I don't eat the rubbish fruit and vegetables they sell us
from Europe, I buy clothes and footwear made in the UK, I eat British meat  (processed correctly) and I drink british ale. not the gassy p***
that comes from Europe and Scotch whisky.

Do I need this bunch of lunatics led by lunatics?

NO I B***** WELL DON'T

Edited by das
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17 hours ago, das said:

I don't want a BMW, I don't want a German gun, I don't drink French plonk and I don't eat the rubbish fruit and vegetables they sell us
from Europe, I buy clothes and footwear made in the UK, I eat British meat  (processed correctly) and I drink british ale. not the gassy p***
that comes from Europe and Scotch whisky.

Do I need this bunch of lunatics led by lunatics?

NO I B***** WELL DON'T

I dont actually have a problem with buying foreign goods, or visiting foreign lands, I dont mind a bit of foreign culture.
I would prefer they were not rammed down my throat, or this country forced to buy their goods.

I would like them to visit using a visa system, or if coming for work, a points system, as I would be happy to have, if it were me going to their country.
I dont want to be told you HAVE to let them in whatever, or be given a quota for how many we HAVE to take.

Then when we dare to complain, or democratically vote to leave, get told by the very countries we supported militarily, financially and economically for the last 70 years, countries we virtually bankrupted ourselves for, helping to liberate during WW2, that ' YOU WILL PAY ' tends to wind me up somewhat.

Rees Mogg said it recently, the EU need our money to shore up their budget black hole that ends in 2021, without it they will become technically insolvent, as their own constitution forbids borrowing any more money.
Mays Florence offer helped them out of this predicament.

However they are still going all in for the big payday, and it certainly wouldnt be the first time they ignored their own constitution, and just borrowed it anyway.

Either way ,the game is reaching its conclusion.

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They'e got a cheek, but worse than that, we're being governed by a majority of people who aren't inteested in what their people want and are turning their back on democracy, there is no legal need to pay them a single penny and it' a fact that if we reach no deal, the UK will still be better of if we did all our trade through WTO rules, which doesn' take into account we'd actually save far more than that as we'd set up our own trade deals and the EU would lose further billions, I believe the UK buys 70 billion pounds more in trade from the EU than they buy from us, they should be in no position to make demands yet our crooked politicians would sale us up the river for their own selfish reasons.

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Plus 1 on that panoma.  They are going to be so strapped for cash when we leave that they are going to try and squeeze as much as possible from us and by todays news they are succeeding.  Personally I would like to see Davies fold up his lap top and walk away from the table.  My view is there would be absolute panic in Brussels as they became inundated by complaints from industries selling to us.  They have this 'vision' of a Federal State and they are so pig headed they cannot see that it project is failing.  One or two of us predicted this 15yrs ago and now the likes of Junker et all are starting to run around like rats exposed under a tin sheet with terriers about to descend.

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34 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

They'e got a cheek, but worse than that, we're being governed by a majority of people who aren't inteested in what their people want and are turning their back on democracy, there is no legal need to pay them a single penny and it' a fact that if we reach no deal, the UK will still be better of if we did all our trade through WTO rules, which doesn' take into account we'd actually save far more than that as we'd set up our own trade deals and the EU would lose further billions, I believe the UK buys 70 billion pounds more in trade from the EU than they buy from us, they should be in no position to make demands yet our crooked politicians would sale us up the river for their own selfish reasons.

Absolutely, and I fail to see how anyone can see that they have the upper hand. Our negotiation should be quite simple, the EU will receive no more money from the UK, if you want to setup a trade deal then lets talk if not then the negotiations are over.

 

Also I've never understood the people that think this Country can't hold it's own in the World and need the EU to help us survive, I've only seen it the other way the big economys will survive  (France, Germany Etc.) but the EU will collapse. Their biggest mistake was free movement and allowing Countries with no economy to join and expecting others to keep them afloat and in the process a massive influx of cheap labour with free movement causing massive economic problems within the bigger economy Countries. Oh and the fact they are trying to rule.

 

It should have remained a free trade deal and nothing else, the quicker we are out the better.

Edited by Newbie to this
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The EU....every taxpayer in the UK pays into it......the ones that want to stay in the EU are the minority of individuals, organisations and businesses that have a financial interest in remaining in, are getting a lot out of it in such things as grants and subsidies, are simply frightened of leaving and/or are just plain stupid!....the majority of ordinary UK citizens get/got very little, if anything, worth having out of it!....all this when the EU cannot or will not account for the obscene amount of our money they have spent over the years!.....these are some of the main reasons why I vote voted Brexit.

As others have said "call their bluff".....they had their chance to halt Brexit by negotiating concessions with Cameron.....but would not "play"...... the same is happening now..........We should just walk away and watch the whole project fail!

We will then be in a sound position to pick up the pieces.

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Interesting developments in Germany, Acting Chancellor Merkel has failed to form a coalition and it looks like they may be going to the polls again. This will make the EU jittery, for if we don't pay they will be looking to Germany to make up the budget shortfall. Opinion Polls; and I know they can't always be relied upon, seem to indicate that Merkel's party would do even worse in another election. The populist Alternative for Germany could gain many more seats. A less EU friendly Germany may emerge. 

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11 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Regardless of what happens with Brexit, it' seems obvious to me the future of the EU is looking very bleak indeed.

It always was, thats the daftest thing about it, once the trade agreement became a drive towards a dictatorial superstate, its fate was sealed.
Simply because , thats not what most people want, and try as they might to stealth it through, it just got more obvious.

Ask yourself this, how many who voted remain, or would vote remain in other countries if they were given the chance, would do so just because they dont want to upset the status quo , or are fearful of change ?
How does being in the EU benefit the majority of people in Europe ?
It doesnt , unless you live in a poorer country and wish to freely travel to a richer one and work, or maybe use their NHS or benefits system?
Its not that this a bad thing (for them particularly) its the fact that its not only encouraged, but there is nothing the 'host' country can do about controlling it.

Some might see that as an affront to democracy and national sovereignty, which it is.
You can fool some of the people, some of the time...

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Post Brexit we will no doubt rejoin the union under a guise of trade partner. :lol:.

It's that free movement of people that makes the EU competitive, working as a balance to costs. It keeps labour cost's down in prosperous countries and benefits recipient and donor. 

Imagine a post Brexit EU with some sort of points for immigration. How many points do you need to be a farm labourer? Most of the farms i shoot on employ Europeans as they are unable to get the British to do the job. Without them either wages will rise and our goods cease to be competitive or we swap to a different way of farming. 

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1 hour ago, oowee said:

Post Brexit we will no doubt rejoin the union under a guise of trade partner. :lol:.

It's that free movement of people that makes the EU competitive, working as a balance to costs. It keeps labour cost's down in prosperous countries and benefits recipient and donor. 

Imagine a post Brexit EU with some sort of points for immigration. How many points do you need to be a farm labourer? Most of the farms i shoot on employ Europeans as they are unable to get the British to do the job. Without them either wages will rise and our goods cease to be competitive or we swap to a different way of farming. 

I don' mind trading with the EU on a level playing field, however if they want us to pay billions for us to be able to buy goods from them as happens now, in the words of Boris Johnson, they can go swivel.

Cheap EU labour is one of the main reasons the hard working, low paid of this country has seen little to no pay rise in years.

Good riddance to the EU, Mark my words, it'll go down like the titanic.

Here's hoping for a no deal :good:.

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24 minutes ago, oowee said:

'Cheap EU labour is one of the main reasons the hard working, low paid of this country has seen little to no pay rise in years.'

Nothing to do with our low productivity, skills, education and globalisation then?

Nope! That is more to do with disincentive, lack of investment, austerity and public service pay cuts!

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29 minutes ago, oowee said:

£38bn and counting. Not on the side of the bus :lol::lol:

I find it slightly odd that you find it funny that your perception of EU negotiations is that its going badly, its like you want the uk to get a poor deal? although in my opinion the fact we're out is a great thing even if it did cost us in the end. Luckily the EU is acting like the mafia to the extent that even the most staunch remainiac is having a hard time justifying the payments the EU want and will hopefully lead to a no deal, which with all the treacherous politicians in power will be better than any deal most of them would negotiate.

11 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

Nope! That is more to do with disincentive, lack of investment, austerity and public service pay cuts!

+1

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19 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

Nope! That is more to do with disincentive, lack of investment, austerity and public service pay cuts!

Everybody else's fault then.

 

8 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

I find it slightly odd that you find it funny that your perception of EU negotiations is that its going badly, its like you want the uk to get a poor deal?

Turkeys voting for Christmas was never going to be funny.

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