wymberley Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 Took me a minute, but I think Gerry is talking numerically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry78 Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 Motty u bring smile to my face lol without debating this over and over again Last year i shot a cock wigeon on the marsh using 1\2 choke on a browning semi automatic[CLEAN SHOT] using ELEY VIP steel 36gram NO 5s i watched the shot pepper the bird at about 30 til 35 yards the duck flew on then dropped bout 120 yards into the water send the dog to retreive it The duck was very much wounded then i dispatched it humanly later that evening i went pigeon shooting Using ELEY lead 32gram NO6 on cut stubble i shot couple pigeons bout same range as the duck with same gun LATER PREPARING THE BIRDS i noticed the duck had most of the shot go right through it with some pellets remaining THE pigeons on the other hand had a lot of lead pellets still in them some had deformed as they hit there body by the look of thing the pellets had ricochet around there internals ive seen this happen numerous times so that is my ten pence on steel v lead lol :rolleyes: I must be the only one on forum who thinks lead more effective within range THAN STEEL so thats my final post on subject Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 Lead pellets ricocheting around in the body?!! Please answer my question, Gerry! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiler23 Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 To be fair Gerry ... Them eley VIP steel are ****.... I bought a slab of them for this season... Iv not even fired a box yet,but iv seen enough to know I won't be using the rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraai Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 For the unbelievers of steel cartridges...take a look at youtube tok poortvliet he is a dutch guy who is shooting al the geese with winchester special canard 34 gr nr 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 I also have videos on YouTube of wildfowling and pigeon shooting using steel, if anyone wishes to see more examples of its effectiveness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 With al respect sire dont say steel is bad if you dont use it...i shoot every year 8 to 10000 steel carts on pigeons, crows and game and this for almost 10 years and i shoot 30 year with guns... all i can say is that if people say steel is bad it is not the cartridge... Read the thread again, I do use steel when I have to ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraai Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 Read the thread again, I do use steel when I have to ! Yes but not in the amount i do How mutch do you use in a year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry78 Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 Motty ive give my opinion on steel v lead etc goin out now for evening at the ducks with gun/ dog/ box of Gamebore steel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 Motty u bring smile to my face lol without debating this over and over again Last year i shot a cock wigeon on the marsh using 1\2 choke on a browning semi automatic[CLEAN SHOT] using ELEY VIP steel 36gram NO 5s i watched the shot pepper the bird at about 30 til 35 yards the duck flew on then dropped bout 120 yards into the water send the dog to retreive it The duck was very much wounded then i dispatched it humanly later that evening i went pigeon shooting Using ELEY lead 32gram NO6 on cut stubble i shot couple pigeons bout same range as the duck with same gun LATER PREPARING THE BIRDS i noticed the duck had most of the shot go right through it with some pellets remaining THE pigeons on the other hand had a lot of lead pellets still in them some had deformed as they hit there body by the look of thing the pellets had ricochet around there internals ive seen this happen numerous times so that is my ten pence on steel v lead lol :rolleyes: I must be the only one on forum who thinks lead more effective within range THAN STEEL so thats my final post on subject The fact it flew on is evidence enough that the Duck was not hit right to begin with, its not impossible to achieve the same scenario with Lead. Could be the load was not a good match for your gun and choke choice did you pattern the load at all or just run with it>? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 Yes but not in the amount i do How mutch do you use in a year As little as possible ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 Why do people run away when they're losing an argument? I really am interested to hear about these cartridges that have shot that ricochets in a duck's body! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDog Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 I love a good debate. Can somebody answer me this; if steel shot travels through a bird, in what way can that be a bad thing? I cannot enter the steel v lead debate as I have never fired a cartridge with steel pellets inside. However I believe that the idea is that pellets when they strike use up their remaining energy inside the target rather than passing through. This is certainly true of rifle bullets. Energy still available for the pellets to pass through the target is obviously wasted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 What I can't understand is why when here in the UK we feel able to assess the performance of any shot material on the shooting of one duck, our colleagues over the pond deem it necessary to sample several thousand before reaching what is for them a satisfactory conclusion. Beats me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 As little as possible ! With respect i would like to propose the suggestion that here lays the prime reason you feel steel is such a poor performer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6.5x55SE Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 With respect i would like to propose the suggestion that here lays the prime reason you feel steel is such a poor performer.Correct and have some shooting lessons using Steel cartridges. I bet in the next 1.5hr I'll shoot 4-6 Geese using 7/8oz Steel 3's from my 20ga and they're be dead killed at 35-45yrd must dash lights fading 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 I cannot enter the steel v lead debate as I have never fired a cartridge with steel pellets inside. However I believe that the idea is that pellets when they strike use up their remaining energy inside the target rather than passing through. This is certainly true of rifle bullets. Energy still available for the pellets to pass through the target is obviously wasted. As flippant and callous as it may sound an exit wound is another hole to leak from, pass throughs are just a bi product of hard pellets at high velocitys, most steel tends to be faster than lead the non deforming nature of Steel again helps promote the exits although i am not inferring lead will flatten out or fragment in the way a bullet does it will deform slightly at typical shotgun velocity but it seems like it deforms enough to make its passage through the bird a little more difficult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 (edited) Correct and have some shooting lessons using Steel cartridges. I bet in the next 1.5hr I'll shoot 4-6 Geese using 7/8oz Steel 3's from my 20ga and they're be dead killed at 35-45yrd must dash lights fading True! This video no doubt been seen by nearly everyone here shows clearly there is a difference with steel. There are many points on this video that are debatable but some points raised are interesting and viewing this in a club meeting on VHS at the time of Non Tox introduction left me doubting some of the coments, but as the years have gone by i acept more of what is being said in this film. Edited September 28, 2017 by lancer425 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landofficer Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 6.5x55SE Would you be kind and let me have your info for the 20b load in steel. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry78 Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 Motty Just back from lough enjoyed evening flight 6mallard 1 teal IM NOT running away no were i said in my post the pellets LOOKED LIKE THEY HAD RICOCHET im by no means a expert so read the post mate LANCER 425 U JUST SAID more or less the point i was trying get across regards lead and i stopped using Eley steel LANCER always shot 1/2 choke nothing wrong with my shooting as the duck found out tonight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 Rest Assured Gerry no slight on your abilities were inferred, we all make errors though on individual shots with regards your half choke choice its usually a safe option to get reasonable performance , but clearly in the case of the eley steel ammo you were using there is the possibility it was not comparable with your choke. I have never used any VIP steel so frankly have no idea if its fast slow or moderate in velocity, could be a change of choke would turn it into an effective match or maybe a change of ammo is what is needed, you have to be flexible and accept some ammo is not perfect in some guns, you need to pattern to get the real picture and esstablish if its acceptable for your needs. Lead is not exempt from this as i am sure you are well aware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6.5x55SE Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 Back home 3 shots 2 Geese. Short story late dog walkers jumped Geese killed 2 crackers in front 7/8oz Steel 3's and killed think air with 3rd shot 😣 approx 40yrd give or take a inch 😆 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 Every reason to be pleased with that result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6.5x55SE Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 Every reason to be pleased with that result. Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry78 Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 Nice one mate Glad i wasent the only one out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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