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Benthejockey
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I once had a convo with a bloke in Gran Canaria about this, he was a Moroccan muslim, who had lived there for years, and worked as a barman.

He was also a halal slaughterman, he said the animal must not get distressed, not see the blade, and would die within seconds, as prayers were said over it.

Ive also seen industrial halal slaughter houses in videos ,where none of this is practiced.

Ive also seen, and heard from people who have worked in them, some pretty savage stories from non halal slaughter houses.

 

Lets face it, nature is a cruel thing, and we are one of the worst animals for cruelty.

If it bothers you that much, either do your own slaughtering/killing or go veggy.

Because you never really know how that meat got to your table otherwise.

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I used to cover an area that had a Halal slaughterhouse.

From what i gleaned chatting stunning was permissible as it doesn't actually kill the animal only renders it unconscious, and for the purpose of Halal that is acceptable (to a Jew this isnt so they will never eat a stunned animal) If the stun does indeed kill the animal then this would render it non Halal, Chickens tend to be the exception as stunning generally kills them - if there was a question to if the animal died during stunning it was sold as non Halal

 

There was a debate about stunning causing more suffering before the slaughter as under Halal the animal shouldn't suffer more than is necessary, hence some abattoirs don't stun as they believe a captive bolt or electric current causes more pain

 

On a side note the offal was removed by the easter Europeans, bagged and stored away from the main plant (and usually given away to dog owners)

 

For transparency i have eaten Halal and fully understand if i have a Curry of a weekend 99% chance its Halal

Edited by ph5172
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I haven't bothered to read all the posts because I've read dozens on other forums but one thing that I do find again and again is people aren't that interested in the truth just what face ach says or some other tripe.

In the uk MOST halal meat is pre stunned before slaughter, Kosher on the other hand none is pre stunned

What people should be shouting about is not one religion or another but pre stunning

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Every large scale slaughterhouse I've seen that deals with chickens stuns them, so is not Halal.

 

Stunning is not permitted with halal slaughter.

This.

I worked at a chicken processsing plant for about a year whilst inbetween jobs. All birds were stunned prior to slaughter.

Once or twice a week a representative of the relevant ethnic group would visit the factory and spend the day slaughtering chicken by the halal method for sale to the relevant ethnic community.

These birds were ( in theory ) kept separate from the rest of that days production.

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None of us are in a position to hold strong views on the subject UNTIL we know the truth of what Halal or Kosher actually means. My basic instinct is that if either of these methods entail bleeding the animal to death without first rendering it unable to feel any pain then it would "seem" to be inhumane but without scientific methods and tests we won't know for sure.

 

FWIW I highly doubt the validity of any article that says most of us are unwittingly eating Halal meat and besides even if we are why not taint such negative reporting with Kosher too since they are both cut from the same cloth in terms of animal suffering ? :rolleyes::hmm: I do know the answer by the way and I'm sure you do too.

 

The reason we don't see documentaries on the subject is a) because Kosher would have to follow suit in any action taken and b) billions of pounds of meat are exported to places such as Saudi Arabia who will continue to insist on Halal slaughter and just like the bombs we sell them money talks, humanity walks.

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I'm not trying to play devils advocate here, but I genuinely don't think I'm in any position to object.

Of course I think that it's only humane to stun animals before slaughter, but I also kill living creatures not because I need to to survive, but for leisure.

I do my utmost to see that suffering is kept to a minimum, but we all know what the outcome can be; and while I don't deliberately set out to cause suffering, on those occasions it does happen, I don't object to it to the extent it would stop me shooting.

I don't really feel entirely comfortable condemning one while condoning another.

Exactly my point sully 👍

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I'm not trying to play devils advocate here, but I genuinely don't think I'm in any position to object.

Of course I think that it's only humane to stun animals before slaughter, but I also kill living creatures not because I need to to survive, but for leisure.

I do my utmost to see that suffering is kept to a minimum, but we all know what the outcome can be; and while I don't deliberately set out to cause suffering, on those occasions it does happen, I don't object to it to the extent it would stop me shooting.

I don't really feel entirely comfortable condemning one while condoning another.

entirely agree

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No animal should have to suffer more than necessary during slaughter for religious reasons. You must stun all animals before you slaughter them unless an animal is being religiously slaughtered for halal or kosher meat.

 

As for shooting animals, sometimes a shot can go wrong you have no control over that, you are not deliberately causing unnecessary suffering. The difference in religious slaughter is they have control over what happens, and chose to cause unnecessary suffering for superstition.

Edited by ordnance
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i.e ....... Immigration problem solved in large part....... and emigration probably boosted......

 

But remember the spineless bunch of trough creatures at Westminster will do SFA, the BBC and its highly paid Lib Elite ( Packham et al ) will go all out to ban a humane harvest of a natural product from the Uplands, and ....well , need I go on..... excuse me while I go and regurgitate.....:(---

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None of us are in a position to hold strong views on the subject UNTIL we know the truth of what Halal or Kosher actually means. My basic instinct is that if either of these methods entail bleeding the animal to death without first rendering it unable to feel any pain then it would "seem" to be inhumane but without scientific methods and tests we won't know for sure.

 

FWIW I highly doubt the validity of any article that says most of us are unwittingly eating Halal meat and besides even if we are why not taint such negative reporting with Kosher too since they are both cut from the same cloth in terms of animal suffering ? :rolleyes::hmm: I do know the answer by the way and I'm sure you do too.

 

The reason we don't see documentaries on the subject is a) because Kosher would have to follow suit in any action taken and b) billions of pounds of meat are exported to places such as Saudi Arabia who will continue to insist on Halal slaughter and just like the bombs we sell them money talks, humanity walks.

Maybe not most but when I see chicken products labelled Halal chicken from the Shangdong muslim association of China being supplied to a school where I work, I question how much of the catering trade in this country hides the fact that they use it.

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No animal should have to suffer more than necessary during slaughter for religious reasons. You must stun all animals before you slaughter them unless an animal is being religiously slaughtered for halal or kosher meat.

 

"RELIGION" ....whatever that means......has been the cause of more Death and misery to the human (really ?) race for the last two thousand years...

 

So why should these sentient animals - that have sustained and worked for the human race for many more millennia - be subjected to a cruel ending as their final sacrifice..?????

 

I am interested to know.

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I have seen videos of halal slaughter and I can tell you it is horrendous, to see a bullock in a crush having its throat slashed and its head nearly half off still trying to breath 5 minutes later makes very disturbing and angry viewing,of course its not banned as it might upset our ethnic minorities and lose some votes.one of the things i find disturbing is the deafening silence from the hypocritical RSPCA

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I have seen videos of halal slaughter and I can tell you it is horrendous, to see a bullock in a crush having its throat slashed and its head nearly half off still trying to breath 5 minutes later makes very disturbing and angry viewing,of course its not banned as it might upset our ethnic minorities and lose some votes.one of the things i find disturbing is the deafening silence from the hypocritical RSPCA

 

Religious slaughter - RSPCA

Religious slaughter
Slaughter without pre-stunning (for religious purposes)

We're opposed to the slaughter of any animal without first ensuring it is rendered insensible to pain and distress.

We recognise that religious beliefs and practices should be respected. However, we also believe animals should be slaughtered under the most humane conditions possible. Evidence clearly indicates that slaughter without pre-stunning can cause unnecessary suffering.

 

Edited by ordnance
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It is not the halal/kosher killing for religious reasons I object to, but the expediency of retailers, caterers and slaughterhouses who choose this method of slaughtering for ease or a fast buck.

 

Some interesting reading on Halal slaughter...............http://www.halalcertification.se/Islamguidens_halalcertifiering_Halal_Standard.pdf

Edited by CharlieT
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I think from this moment on any pricked bird retrieved alive by a dog then despatched by the handler should be marked in some way so that it can be identified on the cart and removed from the food chain.

 

Folk who shoot live game who are against halal need to be pragmatc.

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Reading through this thread there are some widely conflicting "facts" on how Halal and Kosher is carried out.

I think some people choose to denigrate Halal and/or Kosher meat preparation more as a reaction to the religions that practise it, than the actual practice itself.

 

Thats easy to clear up.

Halal and kosher slaughter - GOV.UK

Jump to Requirements to slaughter for halal meat - You must be a Muslim to slaughter animals for halal meat. ... (Udhia) as for any type of halal slaughter.
Edited by ordnance
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