Harnser Posted October 1, 2017 Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 I carnt believe what I have seen in Catalan . Thuggish Spanish police beating up innocent people who want to have a poll on independence. Madrid has said that the poll is illegal . If so why not just deem it so after the poll has ended. Absolutely no need to beat up ordinary people in the street . Spain you should be ashamed of your self . Harnser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dead-Eyed Duck Posted October 1, 2017 Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 I absolutely agree. It would appear that in some quarters the Franco mentality still apples, and democracy is still a dirty word. Here's hoping that the leaders of the EEC offer some criticism as well........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
la bala Posted October 1, 2017 Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 Local police or Guadia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted October 1, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 Local police or Guadia Police from all over Spain have been drafted in. Harnser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted October 1, 2017 Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 Democracy right across Europe is dead/never existed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted October 1, 2017 Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 The Spanish are worried that Catalan will start the ball rolling...as other regions are wanting greater automony .............Spain have said they will also veto certain issues regards our Brexit...and scotland...cause of the worry that the Basque region will finally get what they want................ The Spanish police have always had a brutal touch to them.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
la bala Posted October 1, 2017 Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 The Spanish are worried that Catalan will start the ball rolling...as other regions are wanting greater automony .............Spain have said they will also veto certain issues regards our Brexit...and scotland...cause of the worry that the Basque region will finally get what they want................ The Spanish police have always had a brutal touch to them.. Them Guardia Civils are a rum bunch, military trained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krugerandsmith Posted October 1, 2017 Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 I carnt believe what I have seen in Catalan . Thuggish Spanish police beating up innocent people who want to have a poll on independence. Madrid has said that the poll is illegal . If so why not just deem it so after the poll has ended. Absolutely no need to beat up ordinary people in the street . Spain you should be ashamed of your self . Harnser By using these heavy handed methods they have made a big mistake. Think that they have lit the blue touch paper. ... Now what will the Basques do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted October 1, 2017 Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 (edited) By using these heavy handed methods they have made a big mistake. Think that they have lit the blue touch paper. ... Now what will the Basques do? its been a bit quiet there recently...the Basques have handed in their arms and are following a more political route..................think that will change .... the Spanish are not happy....massive unemploment.....massive youth unemploment.....king and queen exuding wealth...and involved in euro fraud...laundering....bib illegal immigrant influx.............. its a lot of stuff that is going to come to head ............... Edited October 1, 2017 by ditchman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferguson_tom Posted October 1, 2017 Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 Diplomacy isn't an area deciding it wants to go independent, even if everyone in that area wants it. No matter how you sugar coat it it's a civil uprising and rebellion against the Spanish government. Yes they have gone in heavy handed but the fact this undemocratic referendum has gone ahead indicates all political and non physical solutions have already been exhausted. Can you imagine if the south-east (or any area) decided to have an independence referendum from the rest of the UK? Would that be democratic if 51% of the people in that area voted for it in a referendum they run themselves? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted October 1, 2017 Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 (edited) We didnt shoot the Jocks when they had their poll.... . Edited October 1, 2017 by Mungler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuddster Posted October 1, 2017 Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 Sad affair-Spanish Police don't hold back on dishing out short, sharp painful justice to those offer any resistance. The local populace have an honest grievance but there was attacks on the officers so it was only going to go one way. Makes our 'riot' Police seem warm and cuddly. can't say I support regions voting to go out on their own-seems a sure way to fracture national pride and making regional differences into open voids. f. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr D Posted October 1, 2017 Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 (edited) Diplomacy isn't an area deciding it wants to go independent, even if everyone in that area wants it. No matter how you sugar coat it it's a civil uprising and rebellion against the Spanish government. Yes they have gone in heavy handed but the fact this undemocratic referendum has gone ahead indicates all political and non physical solutions have already been exhausted. Can you imagine if the south-east (or any area) decided to have an independence referendum from the rest of the UK? Would that be democratic if 51% of the people in that area voted for it in a referendum they run themselves? Catalonia is nothing analogous to what you suggest. It is the equivalent of Scotland, Wales or NI. They should be allowed their vote and I suspect the Central government in Madrid has probably done more to bolster Independence than the Nationalists could have wished for in their wildest dreams. Edited October 1, 2017 by Dr D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted October 1, 2017 Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 Catalonia is nothing analogous to what you suggest. It is the equivalent of Scotland, Wales of NI. They should be allowed their vote and I suspect the Central government in Madrid has probably done more to bolster Independence than the Nationalists could have wished for in their wildest dreams. I would agree the polices actions has helped the separatists cause. But their are also lots of people in Cataloina that doint want to separate from Spain so its not as black and white as some think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver pigeon69 Posted October 1, 2017 Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 (edited) I would agree the polices actions has helped the separatists cause. But their are also lots of people in Cataloina that doint want to separate from Spain so its not as black and white as some think. There may be many people in Catalunia who do not want independence, but i dont think you would find many "native" Catalans who don't. Edited October 1, 2017 by silver pigeon69 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted October 1, 2017 Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 Unlucky for them they're not in the Middle East because by now the US would have supplied them with fleets of brand new Toyota trucks and machine guns and called them friendly rebels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted October 1, 2017 Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 (edited) There may be many people in Catalunia who do not want independence, but i dont think you would find many "native" Catalans who don't. Whether they are native or not is irrelevant if they live there, just like English living in Scotland they have as much rights as Native Scottish when it comes to Independence referendums etc. Edited October 1, 2017 by ordnance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr D Posted October 1, 2017 Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 Whether they are native or not is irrelevant if they live there, just like English living in Scotland they have as much rights as Native Scottish when it comes to Independence referendums etc. Native. How long do you have to live in a place to be a native? Just watched the news and the police appear to have acted disgracefully against people undertaking peaceful actions. Completely overthetop. As was said previously, the Central govt could have just sat back. Waited for the result. And declared it invalid. Now if the vote goes in favour, the Catalan govt is likely to declare independence and the **** will hit the fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted October 1, 2017 Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 Diplomacy isn't an area deciding it wants to go independent, even if everyone in that area wants it. No matter how you sugar coat it it's a civil uprising and rebellion against the Spanish government. Yes they have gone in heavy handed but the fact this undemocratic referendum has gone ahead indicates all political and non physical solutions have already been exhausted. Can you imagine if the south-east (or any area) decided to have an independence referendum from the rest of the UK? Would that be democratic if 51% of the people in that area voted for it in a referendum they run themselves? The Yorkshire Party are trying but they can't get some councils to agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver pigeon69 Posted October 1, 2017 Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 (edited) Whether they are native or not is irrelevant if they live there, just like English living in Scotland they have as much rights as Native Scottish when it comes to Independence referendums etc. Ok, so do you think the majority vote will be remain? Edited October 1, 2017 by silver pigeon69 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted October 1, 2017 Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 Unlucky for them they're not in the Middle East because by now the US would have supplied them with fleets of brand new Toyota trucks and machine guns and called them friendly rebels. Predictable... though totally irrelevant to the topic being discussed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted October 1, 2017 Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 Native. How long do you have to live in a place to be a native? Just watched the news and the police appear to have acted disgracefully against people undertaking peaceful actions. Completely overthetop. As was said previously, the Central govt could have just sat back. Waited for the result. And declared it invalid. Now if the vote goes in favour, the Catalan govt is likely to declare independence and the **** will hit the fan. I think thats what i said. (Quote Manta I would agree the polices actions has helped the separatists cause. ) Indigenous peoples, also known as first peoples, aboriginal peoples, native peoples, or autochthonous peoples, are ethnic groups who are descended from and identify with the original inhabitants of a given region, in contrast to groups that have settled, occupied or colonized the area more recently. Ok, so do you think the majority vote will be remain? Doint know, maybe they should hold a referendum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 Predictable... though totally irrelevant to the topic being discussed. Winds the hell out of you because it's true. I don't give a damn what's predictable by the way all that matters is that it is relevant to the world we live in today which you view through selective vision. Are you suggesting that had this happened in Iran with Kurdish elements there wanting independence, that the US and all its puppets wouldn't have milked the living daylights out of it and used it to arm and fund them ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krugerandsmith Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 Diplomacy isn't an area deciding it wants to go independent, even if everyone in that area wants it. No matter how you sugar coat it it's a civil uprising and rebellion against the Spanish government. Yes they have gone in heavy handed but the fact this undemocratic referendum has gone ahead indicates all political and non physical solutions have already been exhausted. Can you imagine if the south-east (or any area) decided to have an independence referendum from the rest of the UK? Would that be democratic if 51% of the people in that area voted for it in a referendum they run themselves? Well the way money has been poured into London and not the rest of the country. Liverpool as an example a major shipping port and cruise terminal does not even have a direct train or tram connection to John Lennon airport. London gets £18 BILLION on another tube line. Maybe the rest of us should start thinking of independence.... Andy Burnham is right and should be listen to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDog Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 The title of this thread is misleading. The 'thugs' appear to be non Catalans brought in by the Spanish Government. As others have said the actions by the National Government will only hasten independence for Catalonia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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