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Vegas shooting


figgy
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As usual a lot of people are completely missing the point.

 

What about a more accurate quote, "cars don't kill people, people with cars kill people because a flawed political system allows unreasonable pressure to be put on ANY politician that wants to be elected to allow almost anyone unbridled access to personal transport."

 

QED.

 

In the usa in 2016, just over 15,000 died from guns (excluding suicides but including gang/drug crime), but over 35,000 died due to cars.

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It isn't just about the availability of guns, the Americans seem to operate on a different mindset to the rest of the civilised world. I'm sure you could dissect and break down the (many) reasons for it.

I have mentioned this many times, as have many American commentators following shootings such as Columbine and Sandyhook.

The mental health screening and help for the average person is abysmal.

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I have to say that I have little sympathy for for the American people who got shot I have every sympathy for all of the other people from all around the world who got mixed up in it .

 

If the American people are so stupid as to let any Tom **** or Harry buy these automatic guns then they cannot complain when some nutter gets hold of one and dose something like this as I have said before I have no problem with people having hand guns hunting rifles and shot guns but full automatics is madness.

 

Dropped in late to this conversation, but absolutely appalled to read this comment. Really staggered and appalled.

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so how would it be infringing the americans rights if they had gun laws the same as ours.most of the types of guns sold in America have no practical use for the ordinary person,and blaming their health service for lack of mental health places is ridiculous,there is more money spent on therapists there than just about any other country in the world,they have a therapist for just about every thing under the sun.yet they are still seen to be the most unstable race on earth,

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did i hear this right.......................correct me if ive got it wrong.......

 

that inbetween 11-15000 people die of gunshot wounds in the USA every year........................

 

33000 apparently. :unhappy:

 

There is something dreadfully wrong because compared to all other nations including those with perfectly liberal civilian gun laws and taking population into account the US is still in a different league in gun violence.

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33000 apparently. :unhappy:

 

There is something dreadfully wrong because compared to all other nations including those with perfectly liberal civilian gun laws and taking population into account the US is still in a different league in gun violence.

 

Yes, there is something seriously amiss in the American psyche when it comes to the wilful use of guns, especially in relation to mass shootings.

 

In a dreadfully perverse way it is almost an echo of the approach to many things in the US which is bigger is better. In so many aspects of American culture is a need to prove themselves through oneupmanship and that extends right across the spectrum of activity.

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Its not the fairies that vote in the people who make laws that says that any nutter can buy a fully automatic gun it is these people who got shot I'm sorry but if they have not got the gumption to do something about it that is there fault.

 

Stupid and insulting comment!

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Changing gun laws in America will only work for those about to or have not yet bought firearms. Far to many are already in the hands of owners to change, if they tried a lot of the guns would disappear. The Americans cite the right to bear arms written into their constitution not many would try and change the ideal the country was founded on.

 

More screening like we have could stop some but not every sad event like this. If not guns he could have made a bomb or drive a truck into a crowd as we have seen the carnage both can cause.

 

I don't know the answer as most won't either.

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Stupid and insulting comment!

 

Over my years of membership here, I have seen 4WD make more than a few ill considered (at best) and downright callous at worst comments on a variety of topics. He like the rest of us is entitled to his opinions, just wish he wasn't so contentious at times. IIRC he is in his 70's so no one is going to change him now. Of course he could be a dedicated troll ???

 

Back on topic ......... 59 reported dead now, God knows how many more as time passes.

The police are trying to find a motive for the shooters actions, who knows if they ever will. Paddock is/was a broken mind job, could be any number of reasons. Maybe as simple (and sick) as he wanted to be famous for killing more people than any other nut job.

 

Well he's done that...............until the next one pops up.

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Hi

Very sad state of affairs

Sympathy for all the victims and there families

Set me thinking about it a bit

 

It's the constitutional right of the people to bear arms however the constitution was written when they had little more than muzzle loaders and Winchester rifles maybe a Gatling gun

So maybe the interpretation of there constitution needs a closer look

Definitely time it was brought up to the 21st century

 

Anyway just my thoughts on this sad affair

 

All the best

Of

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Over my years of membership here, I have seen 4WD make more than a few ill considered (at best) and downright callous at worst comments on a variety of topics. He like the rest of us is entitled to his opinions, just wish he wasn't so contentious at times. IIRC he is in his 70's so no one is going to change him now. Of course he could be a dedicated troll ???

 

Back on topic ......... 59 reported dead now, God knows how many more as time passes.

The police are trying to find a motive for the shooters actions, who knows if they ever will. Paddock is/was a broken mind job, could be any number of reasons. Maybe as simple (and sick) as he wanted to be famous for killing more people than any other nut job.

 

Well he's done that...............until the next one pops up.

 

 

I assumed he (4WD) was a young nut job not a 70 year old nut job!

 

Anyway, regarding the right the bear arms. Let's not forget that different states have different gun laws. Not all allow you to collect an arsenal of the type that the killer had. Do people living in California, which I believe has stricter gun laws, feel that their rights are infringed compared to those in Nevada?

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Having therapists only helps if the individual concerned chooses to visit one, which applies just as equally here in the U.K.

Perhaps a doctor could have prevented Bird, Hamilton and Ryan from doing what they did, but only if they'd visited their doctor, which none of them did.

On that count, the U.K. laws are just as effective as those in the US.

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It is estimated there are 300 million firearms in circulation in the USA, you could stop people from buying new ones but how do you regulate the 300 million already out there which I assume are currently unregistered? I would imagine a large proportion of people will refuse to register them.

 

As an aside I was talking to a colleague who had done some training out in Arizona for work, the flying school he attended had cadets from airlines from all over Europe. With every new intake of 50-100 cadets the local Sheriff would come in and explain a few do's and do not's. One of them concerned driving. He said do not gesticulate at other drivers as you will be in danger of being shot. If we (the police) stop you do not get out of your car and keep your hands on the wheel or you are liable to be shot. Sobering stuff.

 

I like America, a lot. It's a great place to visit and the people are very friendly but I find it a very tough society which makes me appreciate UK society even more.

Edited by Laird Lugton
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It's even more shocking that shootings like this in the USA no longer come as a great surprise.so many lives lost and many hundreds destroyed by this act.i am sure the gun lobby over there will defend their right to own whatever they want with the same old constitution dross.they may have a right to bear arms but they also have the right to live their lives to a natural end.doubt anything over there will change.just wait the next one.and another round of empty words from both sides.

Before we cast too many stones, Hungerford and Dunblane spring to mind...............and, to the best of my knowledge, the perps here were English and Scottish........... it,s sad fact that this could happen anywhere! Norway? The difference here is that he used fully automatic weapons, for which there is NO sporting purpose. My thoughts are with the victims and their families.

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My brother moved to the states twenty years ago. He wsn't really interested in shooting before he went but has now fully embraced the RKBA. He hunts, target shoots and has a concealed carry permit. So does nearly everyone else he knows. He used to work at Honeywell's HQ in Mineapolis and said the building which employs thousands emptied on "deer opener" weekend. Almost everyone hunts and shoots. It is deeply, deeply embedded in their psyche. It's hard to explain to those who haven't spent any time there how much a part of their culture and identity guns are. The image of the self reliant frontiersman feeding and protecting his family with a Winchester lever gun lives on. Even those who don't shoot accept unquestioningly that any suggestion of tightening the law is an assault on "freedom". This in the rural Midwest, I know it's different in the east and west coast cities. These are nice people, unbelievably welcoming and warm hearted. It's really difficult to fathom their uncompromising attitudes to this. They weep, offer "thoughts and prayers" every time this happens but refuse to contemplate any practical measures which might help.

 

I shoot with him when I visit and enjoy visiting the big outdoors shops like Cabelas and the local gun shops. I marvel at the the guns on sale in supermarkets like Wal-Mart etc. As a Brit shooter I am torn between a twinge of envy at the lack of state intrusion into their private lives and horror at the hardware any nut job can buy without restraint.

 

I think they have it seriously wrong and need to take drastic measures to reduce the sickening death toll, but this will never happen until the American public want it. Sadly I don't see that happening any time soon.

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Before we cast too many stones, Hungerford and Dunblane spring to mind...............and, to the best of my knowledge, the perps here were English and Scottish........... it,s sad fact that this could happen anywhere! Norway? The difference here is that he used fully automatic weapons, for which there is NO sporting purpose. My thoughts are with the victims and their families.

I don't think any stories are being cast.i am merely saying that when these reports come in from America it does not seem to have the shock factor anymore.its as if it's expected.one thing I can't understand is the American attitude that we need our guns to stop this kind of thing.where is the possible logic in that.how many hundreds of lives have been destroyed from this one instance because of one man's right to own all manner of assault weapons for no other reason than I want one.

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I have to say that I have little sympathy for for the American people who got shot I have every sympathy for all of the other people from all around the world who got mixed up in it .

 

If the American people are so stupid as to let any Tom **** or Harry buy these automatic guns then they cannot complain when some nutter gets hold of one and dose something like this as I have said before I have no problem with people having hand guns hunting rifles and shot guns but full automatics is madness.

 

Besides the first part being one of the worst statements Ive ever heard on PW, the underlined part is equally ridiculous.

Are these guns not just as lethal ?

Remember this guy ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Whitman

 

As for the comments about 30000 people a year dying of gunshot wounds in the US ,a little clarification.

Yes its true, but 2/3 rds are suicides, it also includes accidents, the rest is made up of murders, around 90% reckoned to be gang related.

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My brother moved to the states twenty years ago. He wsn't really interested in shooting before he went but has now fully embraced the RKBA. He hunts, target shoots and has a concealed carry permit. So does nearly everyone else he knows. He used to work at Honeywell's HQ in Mineapolis and said the building which employs thousands emptied on "deer opener" weekend. Almost everyone hunts and shoots. It is deeply, deeply embedded in their psyche. It's hard to explain to those who haven't spent any time there how much a part of their culture and identity guns are. The image of the self reliant frontiersman feeding and protecting his family with a Winchester lever gun lives on. Even those who don't shoot accept unquestioningly that any suggestion of tightening the law is an assault on "freedom". This in the rural Midwest, I know it's different in the east and west coast cities. These are nice people, unbelievably welcoming and warm hearted. It's really difficult to fathom their uncompromising attitudes to this. They weep, offer "thoughts and prayers" every time this happens but refuse to contemplate any practical measures which might help.

 

I shoot with him when I visit and enjoy visiting the big outdoors shops like Cabelas and the local gun shops. I marvel at the the guns on sale in supermarkets like Wal-Mart etc. As a Brit shooter I am torn between a twinge of envy at the lack of state intrusion into their private lives and horror at the hardware any nut job can buy without restraint.

 

I think they have it seriously wrong and need to take drastic measures to reduce the sickening death toll, but this will never happen until the American public want it. Sadly I don't see that happening any time soon.

Most rational post regarding the American situation yet. 👍
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