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figgy
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We'll have to agree to disagree on that one Im afraid.

Much is being made of the number of firearms he owned for some reason. It doesn't matter whether hoe owned one or one hundred, as has been proved. You can only use one at a time.

 

What ? :hmm: You don't think the fact he had access to 10 or more which he had no doubt preloaded and strategically placed close by had a bearing on the rapidity of fire and the mass casualties ? Is this why they have double or even treble gun days, why bother with a loader when your lordship can load and kill 3 pairs in front with his own gun. Is this why when someone goes for silly numbers at pigeon shooting in places like Argentina that a team of helpers load 5 or more semi automatics and sometimes dip them in a bucket as well ?!

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What ? :hmm: You don't think the fact he had access to 10 or more which he had no doubt preloaded and strategically placed close by had a bearing on the rapidity of fire and the mass casualties ? Is this why they have double or even treble gun days, why bother with a loader when your lordship can load and kill 3 pairs in front with his own gun. Is this why when someone goes for silly numbers at pigeon shooting in places like Argentina that a team of helpers load 5 or more semi automatics and sometimes dip them in a bucket as well ?!

 

It would be just as quick to reload as pick up and shoot another rifle or handgun.

HOW I LIKE TO SPEED RELOAD AN AR15 - YouTube

 

World's Fastest Speed Reload Demo with Chris Andersen - YouTube Edited by ordnance
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:hmm: Yes it has, one of (by no means the only) the reasons we have nowhere near as many mass shooting incidents is our much more sensible gun laws, whatever you say about the hand gun ban the reality is that there have been non since the ban and if and when we do get other mass killings the simple truth is that we will still be in a completely different universe compared to the US.

 

You can't stop gun crime but you most certainly can take away weapons that allow the mentally ill or plain evil commit their acts with such devastating impact.

Prior to the handgun ban, there was only one, in a century, the paedo pervert, Thomas Hamilton, who would have used any weapon to do what he did! From the end of WW1, to the first really big amnesty in the 60,s, there were literally thousands of unlicensed handguns in circulation, plus military and sporting rifles, grenades etc etc...yet NO mass shootings! The first one was Michael Ryan, in 1980,s, using a handgun AND 2 semi-automatic rifles, he was mentally unstable..... Hamilton used 4 pistols. Tony B Liar and his chums voted to outlaw pistols to soothe a baying Press pack, and famously stated that he had made Britain a "much safer place" ...RUBBISH! Offences carried out using pistols has INCREASED since then, the only difference is that now it,s criminals who have the pistols. What do you want banned next? Shotguns? Sporting rifles? Air rifles? Perpetrators with a insane desire to inflict death will do so with whatever they can obtain, legally or otherwise! Nothing will deter them, as they are usually intending to kill themselves after committing their dreadful deeds.......

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My Daughter,Son in law and three grandchildren live in the states.

They were told in no uncertain terms that just because they were brits, and unarmed, it would

not make any difference to a Armed intruder in a 'Home security breech', as the patrol man called it.

The advice was to own a handgun, and get proper training.

What is 'normal' in other parts of the world, would be seen as outrageous in the UK.

It all comes down to potential, and opportunity, they have a fundamental right constitutionally

to bear arms. And their society is, or has been relatively at ease with with all types of gun ownership.

The guy could have rained arrows down on the crowd,or drove a 18 wheeler into them !

A nutters a nutter, we will probably never find out what drove this scumbag to do what he did.

 

All we can do, and as civilized human beings must do,is have compassion and sympathy for those poor people

who went out to innocently enjoy themselves and suffered such a terrible fate.

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My Daughter,Son in law and three grandchildren live in the states.

They were told in no uncertain terms that just because they were brits, and unarmed, it would

not make any difference to a Armed intruder in a 'Home security breech', as the patrol man called it.

The advice was to own a handgun, and get proper training.

What is 'normal' in other parts of the world, would be seen as outrageous in the UK.

It all comes down to potential, and opportunity, they have a fundamental right constitutionally

to bear arms. And their society is, or has been relatively at ease with with all types of gun ownership.

The guy could have rained arrows down on the crowd,or drove a 18 wheeler into them !

A nutters a nutter, we will probably never find out what drove this scumbag to do what he did.

 

All we can do, and as civilized human beings must do,is have compassion and sympathy for those poor people

who went out to innocently enjoy themselves and suffered such a terrible fate.

Correct

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Depends on the situation in the country, some carry them here for self defence and thats in the civilised UK.

 

I think people are deliberately being obtuse on this one, COMPARED to the USA where they feel they need guns to go and buy an ice cream :rolleyes: we in the UK do not.

 

That means I do understand that many police men need to carry and that if an axe man knocked on my door and I had the time :whistling: I will rush to my cabinet and blast him with some clay loads. Geeeeeeeeez.

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But do u really need to be tooled up in the USA?

Same in this country is there really so much crime most of u feel unsafe in ur homes/cars

 

Are crime rates so high (outside the schemes) that u really need a gun.

 

Guns for self defence on a wide scale just doesn't work, to be any good they have to be easily accessable which also means easily accessable to intruders, kids or at the very least have to be handled constantly, it only takes 1 mistake/lapse and u have a gun lying about or a ND. Look at the thread about polis ND and that's highly trained professionals who are physc tested etc

 

But when ur losing 33K people every single year surely u have to take a cold hard look in the mirror.

Yes a lot of those may be suicide but if guns were harder to come by would the same amount commit suicide? A gun is a relatively easy but fatal way of doing it, not much chance of a 2nd chance/cry for help if u have easy access to firearms

 

This atrocity was done by a nutter and there is plenty of nutters in the world (but I bet u could argue amercia has more than its fair share) but there is not many other weapons tools, vehicles that could cause that sort of carnage in such a short space of time.

The easy access to firearms and americia and there attitude to them IS a massive problem

 

I must admit the firearms laws in this country aren't too far away, if the polis applied them more equally from force to force, and I could see a decent argument target pistols being kept at clubs but in reality its never going to happen

Edited by scotslad
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What ? :hmm: You don't think the fact he had access to 10 or more which he had no doubt preloaded and strategically placed close by had a bearing on the rapidity of fire and the mass casualties ? Is this why they have double or even treble gun days, why bother with a loader when your lordship can load and kill 3 pairs in front with his own gun. Is this why when someone goes for silly numbers at pigeon shooting in places like Argentina that a team of helpers load 5 or more semi automatics and sometimes dip them in a bucket as well ?!

And did he in fact have several preloaded and strategically placed guns in place, and did he jump from one to another, or did he just keep reloading one?

It is a never ending supply of ammunition which makes the difference ( as per his lordship ) and not the number of weapons available.

I own enough firearms for Fiona Bruce to feel the need to emphasise in her reports, but I can only use one at a time.

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My Daughter,Son in law and three grandchildren live in the states.They were told in no uncertain terms that just because they were brits, and unarmed, it wouldnot make any difference to a Armed intruder in a 'Home security breech', as the patrol man called it.The advice was to own a handgun, and get proper training.What is 'normal' in other parts of the world, would be seen as outrageous in the UK.It all comes down to potential, and opportunity, they have a fundamental right constitutionallyto bear arms. And their society is, or has been relatively at ease with with all types of gun ownership.The guy could have rained arrows down on the crowd,or drove a 18 wheeler into them !A nutters a nutter, we will probably never find out what drove this scumbag to do what he did.All we can do, and as civilized human beings must do,is have compassion and sympathy for those poor peoplewho went out to innocently enjoy themselves and suffered such a terrible fate.

When I lived in South Africa, after I came home to find my house has been broken into I carried a 9mm pistol pretty much constantly. I lived at the end of a secluded cul-de-sac and my worry was tbat I'd get back one day and disturb a subsequent burglary in progress.

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..sorry, pre-ignition...post cont'd...

 

And if I'd been really serious about home-defense I'd have had a pump with a magazine full of SG.

 

But at no point would I conceivably had the use for a fully auto military-spec weapon purpose designed to kill as many people as possible as quickly as possible, or to lay down an impenetrable curtain of suppressive firepower. For a start off, the bullet velocity and volume makes such a weapon a liability to use in any normal civilian environment.

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Americans really like guns. Incidents like this don't change that.

 

Yet somehow this still surprises people.

 

(Source: an American who really likes guns.)

Exactly. I really like guns too.

I wasn't responsible for the shootings in Hungerford , Dunblane and West Cumbria, yet I was made to feel ashamed because of my opposition to the handgun ban.

Jeremy Vine yesterday asked why didn't Americans have a firearms amnesty!!

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i think a lot of it is.....carrying ...having a gun on your person or in the car....in your house....is not purley for protection ...it is to make / feel that you are on an equal footing with everyone else....ie: ..little 5' 6" scrawny chappy can looking mr 6'3" all american hero in the eye....cause he feels equal once he is "packing"............

 

it not the full reason...just another aspect to it....the reason ........that can be figured out.......

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Just saw the leaked pictures, he had at least 4 AR-15s at least one fitted with a slide fire stock, and about a dozen sure fire 100 round mags.

 

For anyone who doesnt no, a slide fire stick lets you bump fire a semi auto, making it near on full auto.

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The argument that is trotted out each time about the number of legally held guns and if guns were banned would mean all these guns would go underground is just rubbish. Firstly most sensible Americans would not want to see ALL guns banned - instead there should be gun control - a different thing. That would and should take out the ability to own these semi-automatic weapons.

 

Secondly the argument that they would then go underground or be kept illegally is basically massively flawed. If there was a law passed that banned these, do they not think that the vast majority of owners would comply with this law and hand them in? Why do they think the average American wants to suddenly become a criminal by not handing them in? Yes of course a percentage would keep them. Yes of course a percentage of the guns would disappear - but that's the point - I would wager the majority of them would get removed from circulation.

Take some of these school killings - the kid involved in general used his fathers weapons. Most people I would suggest do not know how to obtain an illegal gun on the black market. So yes the kid might get hold of a handgun but not an assault rifle. Yes he would kill, but logic dictates there would be fewer deaths.

 

Surely this would go someway to controlling these awful occurrences?

Edited by MrM
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Pointless gun/knife legislation?

 

Can anyone explain how public safety was served by the banning 5 shot S/A' s and limiting them to 3 shot?

 

Likewise the banning of handguns and the laws relating to carrying knives?..........There is more gun and knife related crime in my home city now than before either of these laws were enacted!

 

Guns and knives don't break the law, wound and kill people....people break the law and wound or kill other people!

 

Banning them is pointless it only affects the law abiding!

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I can under stand having a gun for self defence and home invasion .but why do you need 43 guns .

Who did he think he was Rambo

He had them because he could.

It is emotive comments such as 'Rambo' which is often used by the antis to ridicule those who like firearms.

I have over 10 firearms and at least 20 knives; I don't need any of them. It's called freedom of choice.

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The argument that is trotted out each time about the number of legally held guns and if guns were banned would mean all these guns would go underground is just rubbish. Firstly most sensible Americans would not want to see ALL guns banned - instead there should be gun control - a different thing. That would and should take out the ability to own these semi-automatic weapons.

 

Secondly the argument that they would then go underground or be kept illegally is basically massively flawed. If there was a law passed that banned these, do they not think that the vast majority of owners would comply with this law and hand them in? Why do they think the average American wants to suddenly become a criminal by not handing them in? Yes of course a percentage would keep them. Yes of course a percentage of the guns would disappear - but that's the point - I would wager the majority of them would get removed from circulation.

Take some of these school killings - the kid involved in general used his fathers weapons. Most people I would suggest do not know how to obtain an illegal gun on the black market. So yes the kid might get hold of a handgun but not an assault rifle. Yes he would kill, but logic dictates there would be fewer deaths.

 

Surely this would go someway to controlling these awful occurrences?

Most gun owning Americans would oppose any form of gun control because it infringes their rights as stipulated in the 2nd Amendment.

Don't forget that many of those that were in the concert in Vegas are likely to be fully paid up members of the NRA.

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Most gun owning Americans would oppose any form of gun control because it infringes their rights as stipulated in the 2nd Amendment.

Don't forget that many of those that were in the concert in Vegas are likely to be fully paid up members of the NRA.

 

As it seems would many in the UK, judging by the responses to the Home Secretaries "offensive weapons consultation" thread that is currently running.

 

To me there is no difference in mindset between owning a semi auto, or fully auto rifle for that matter, and a .50 cal. There is no need for them other than and this is the important bit, shooting them and enjoying doing so at the range.

 

A knee jerk lets ban them response is not what is needed. What is needed, is a robust licensing system that will, as far as is humanly possible, weed out those who are mentally unfit to own a firearm.

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He had them because he could.

It is emotive comments such as 'Rambo' which is often used by the antis to ridicule those who like firearms.

I have over 10 firearms and at least 20 knives; I don't need any of them. It's called freedom of choice.

I have in excess of ten firearms and a whole host of knives, axes, bayonets etc. I just like them too.

 

Dont use half of them, but so what. People have ornaments and dont use them either.

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As it seems would many in the UK, judging by the responses to the Home Secretaries "offensive weapons consultation" thread that is currently running.

 

To me there is no difference in mindset between owning a semi auto, or fully auto rifle for that matter, and a .50 cal. There is no need for them other than and this is the important bit, shooting them and enjoying doing so at the range.

 

A knee jerk lets ban them response is not what is needed. What is needed, is a robust licensing system that will, as far as is humanly possible, weed out those who are mentally unfit to own a firearm.

This.

It doesn't seem to matter what type of gun is owned, to those who don't 'get' guns or shooting. Some just automatically think 'nutter' or 'walt'; whereas when they get to know me start to realise I'm a normal bloke leading a normal life

With normal kids and normal everyday cares who just sees guns as fabulous fun.

I would love to totally destroy a scrap car or truck with a .50 cal from long range! To me it's the equivalent of catapulting stones at all those scrap cars we would find on the local tip as kids! 👍😀

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