Smart meters

[baikiel boy]

Is it true that these meters have links to cancer ? If so why are companies and government doing their best to persuade people to have , making out that the user will be better of because they can see what they are using , I believe that you cannot be made to have one if you don't want to , Any thoughts on these meters . bb

[Me matt]

Isnt that roughly the same as mobile phones?

[JohnfromUK]

It uses a mobile phone type communication I quote: "Smart meters use a secure national communication network (called the DCC) to automatically and wirelessly send your actual energy usage to your supplier."

There is also a WiFi type link to a display (I think).

 

IF you believe mobile phones, WiFi, radio signals in general etc. are linked to cancers, then the smart meter will fall into the same category. If this is a serious concern to you, you should not use a mobile phone, WiFi, garage remote, or microwave oven. You should also keep away from any masts with radio transmitters (lots).

 

On the other hand, if you are happy to have mobiles, WiFi and and not worried over normal radio communication signals, then you are not likely to be concerned.

 

It is true that high levels of radio signals and other electromagnetic signals can cause medical effects at high levels - this is how radiotherapy works. Levels are the key issue. Smart meters will have to conform to appropriate standards (as do all radio devices) to ensure that the devises are 'safe'.

 

Personally, I am happy that these are set at safe levels and the risk is insignificant, but there is a credible mechanism by which medical damage could occur (as there is with any radio signals)

[BattleFieldRelics]

ATM they cant force you to have one.

 

The software isnt universal. i.e if you swap energy suppliers things need changing. The software is also usually incorrect in its estimations.

 

The meter can be turned on and off remotely by the supplier. If you look at hacking like equifax for example, this means anyone could turn your meter on and off. Dont be surprised if there are attacks of 10000 meters all being switched off in the future etc. (north korea? lol)

 

So avoid if possible.

[JohnfromUK]

IF you are interested in knowing your energy consumption, there are various Apps (I have used an iPad/iPhone one) that you manually read the (standard old style non smart) meter and insert the readings in the App. It then does graphs, charts, works out KWhr and costs etc. It can be useful for comparing the way you use your heating for example (e.g. timed, or on all day at low level) and comparing different heating (central heating versus fires by seeing the reduction in heating when the fires are lit).

 

This gives a good idea of the cost impact of using heating etc. Its a bit tedious, but it works. For example, my house uses about 5 KWhr of gas per day in the summer (water heating only), but up to 250 KWhr of gas per day on the coldest winter days with heating on all day and gas fires used.

 

By contrast electricity (lighting, cooking, cleaning, washing machine etc.) uses a fairly constant level of between 7 and 12 KWhr per day throughout all seasons.

Edited October 17, 2017 by JohnfromUK

[Tim Kelly]

I don't understand why anyone would want one. There is pretty much zero gain for the consumer, leads to the meter reading guys losing their jobs, they're a pain in the backside for gas engineers to use for normal gas rating of appliances. I certainly won't be getting one until and unless it becomes mandatory.

[AVB]

I don't understand why anyone would want one. There is pretty much zero gain for the consumer, leads to the meter reading guys losing their jobs, they're a pain in the backside for gas engineers to use for normal gas rating of appliances. I certainly won't be getting one until and unless it becomes mandatory.

 

I haven't seen a meter reader for years. I was always asked to read and submit my own. Now I don't have to.

[Davyo]

I've just received an email from EON this morning.It advises me that my meter is going to be changed to a smart meter.It also stated that the old type meter is being phased out and can only be replaced with a smart meter.

[JohnfromUK]

Ofgens information:

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/consumers/household-gas-and-electricity-guide/understand-smart-prepayment-and-other-energy-meters/smart-meters-your-rights

[Spoon]

Is it true that these meters have links to cancer ?

 

Somebody in my family is a firm believer in this. From what I've read, the answer is no. They are akin to many other devices that use a "wireless signal" but the tinfoil hat brigade are hot on them because they're being pushed (for non-government funded cancer inducing programme reasons) on consumers at the moment.

 

At the end of the day, you can turn off your WiFi, avoid having a mobile phone, cordless phone, and smart meter in your house but there are plenty of devices and sources that you have no control over or visibility of that'll give you a good blast either way. Best off working out if it's actually going to lower your bills or not.

[JohnfromUK]

Somebody in my family is a firm believer in this. From what I've read, the answer is no. They are akin to many other devices that use a "wireless signal" but the tinfoil hat brigade are hot on them because they're being pushed (for non-government funded cancer inducing programme reasons) on consumers at the moment.

 

At the end of the day, you can turn off your WiFi, avoid having a mobile phone, cordless phone, and smart meter in your house but there are plenty of devices and sources that you have no control over or visibility of that'll give you a good blast either way. Best off working out if it's actually going to lower your bills or not.

+1, but it will only lower your bills IF you use the information gleaned from it to alter the way you use your heating and appliances.

[HW95J]

British Gas pestered us for a while about getting a smart meter but I wasn't convinced. The current meters do what they're meant to do, ancient as they look. As soon as you bring software and wifi etc into the equation I can't imagine it being reliable yet. All readings submitted online but it's a rare day that their website actually works! Once they can get their website working I'd be more confident in anything more advanced.

The cost of smart meter installation will surely have to be covered by people's utility bills, with that in mind is anyone actually saving anything?

[Guest]

I give a reading to British Gas every month for elec +gas .

It’s tellls me what I need to pay .

That’s it sorted don’t need a smart meter to tell me .

Any way I have solar panels so smart meter does not work with them being fitted

They stop it working

[JohnfromUK]

 

The cost of smart meter installation will surely have to be covered by people's utility bills, with that in mind is anyone actually saving anything?

Correct - and actually, overall on average, no one saves anything - in fact it costs more because we have to pay for the development, supply, roll out and installation of all of the new meters and associated network, software etc.

 

Those who actually act on what the smart meter tells them and cut down on energy use may save, but they could have done that anyway, but the majority will ignore it and continue to use heat, light etc as before ...... and will pay more because they are paying for technology they aren't using.

 

What idiot introduced it you may well ask; well it was yet another brilliant idea by the labour party (like the switch to diesel) see this quote "The energy minister in the previous Labour government, one Ed Miliband, introduced legislation to make smart meters mandatory for homes and small and medium-sized businesses by 2014 as part of the condition for licensing energy companies."

 

Note that it was meant to be in place by 2014, so like all government IT projects it is years late .........

Edited October 18, 2017 by JohnfromUK

[oldypigeonpopper]

hello, i had a young man knock on my door and ask if i wanted a smart meter, no thanks i said i am smart enough

[Snoozer]

 

I haven't seen a meter reader for years. I was always asked to read and submit my own. Now I don't have to.

This....

[AVB]

Im surprised some PWers arent still living in caves. Lol.

 

Why would the North Koreans hack your smart meter? They might target a power station but I cant imagine Kim Jongs hackers sitting there saying lets see if we can muck up Fred Smith from Arcadia Avenues smart meter.

 

I also dont care about privacy of how much Electricity or gas I am using. Who really cares? Only me when I have to pay the bill.

 

I have a smart meter. For one it means I dont have to read and submit the meter readings (or suffer the consequences of estimated readings). I can also see real-time the usage in real-terms (pence per hour) and that reminds me to shout at the kids to turn all of the lights off that they have left on.

 

There again I like technology. I also have Hive to manage the heating remotely. Again far more convenient that fiddling with timers and thermostats.

 

All of the technology available is simply a lot more convenient for me.

[JohnfromUK]

Smart meters and Hive (or equivalent) give you the ability to see energy usage and react in real time, which can potentially save energy (and so money).

My old fashioned standard meters are easy to access and read manually (all together in a boiler/plant room).

I have a zoned heating system with comprehensive separate timers/thermostats for each zone, so quite tightly controlled. At the time I installed it, Hive and similar were only in their infancy. The buildings construction makes WiFi difficult (thick stone walls); I probably should have installed Cat 5 - but didn't.

With the system I have (and the way I use it), I don't believe either Smart metering (or Hive) would make much saving if any.

However, if you currently pay little attention to how you use it (e.g. open a window if it gets too hot rather than turning down the heat to show a basic example) then thing like Smart meters and Hive will enable you to make savings if you are prepared to make use of the extra data and better control.

[RockySpears]

Im surprised some PWers arent still living in caves. Lol.

 

Why would the North Koreans hack your smart meter? They might target a power station but I cant imagine Kim Jongs hackers sitting there saying lets see if we can muck up Fred Smith from Arcadia Avenues smart meter.

 

I also dont care about privacy of how much Electricity or gas I am using. Who really cares? Only me when I have to pay the bill.

 

I have a smart meter. For one it means I dont have to read and submit the meter readings (or suffer the consequences of estimated readings). I can also see real-time the usage in real-terms (pence per hour) and that reminds me to shout at the kids to turn all of the lights off that they have left on.

 

There again I like technology. I also have Hive to manage the heating remotely. Again far more convenient that fiddling with timers and thermostats.

 

All of the technology available is simply a lot more convenient for me.

 

Because your meter is a doddle to hack, Power Station maybe not so easy.

 

In any case it may not be the Hackers you need to fear; the point of the meter is that they can disconnect you if they wish. If there is an emergency, they can take your power.

 

The Renewables drive has pushed power generation in many western (inc Australia and NZ) to the brink with no "Base Load" having been built in many years. On those glorious winters days, when it's freezing, but still and dark, there will be no "Base Load" power supply and power will be redirected to where THEY think it best used ie London.

 

RS

[AVB]

 

Because your meter is a doddle to hack, Power Station maybe not so easy.

 

In any case it may not be the Hackers you need to fear; the point of the meter is that they can disconnect you if they wish. If there is an emergency, they can take your power.

 

The Renewables drive has pushed power generation in many western (inc Australia and NZ) to the brink with no "Base Load" having been built in many years. On those glorious winters days, when it's freezing, but still and dark, there will be no "Base Load" power supply and power will be redirected to where THEY think it best used ie London.

 

RS

They dont need a smart meter to switch the power off. Its called an on/off switch.

[Breastman]

You don't have to have a Smart meter installed, although i'm sure they'll try to make things difficult for people that don't.

 

The only problem I see with them is if you're on a variable rate tariff and they use the information on your usage to increase it when they know you're using the most power. I'm sure they can guesstimate this anyway though so its not really that big of a deal.

 

Full disclosure; I don't have one. I just fill in my meter readings each month (entirely by choice). I 'often' (probably once every 2 months) get meter readers but as its in the garage behind the car (so you can't read it and I can't be bothered to get the car out), I don't think my meters have been 'officially' read for over 3 years.

[matgriff]

First off, the previous comments about the meters being able to be hacked and people having the power turned off is not true..... The meters have no disconnection method or means of isolation. This function is only provided outside of the meter, by either the supply company's fuse and in conjunction with a local double pole isolator. For the meter to be able to perform this function it would have to be physically much bigger and contain a contactor (in the case of the electricity meter) and a solenoid valve in the case of the gas meter.

 

As has also been said previously, the meter(s) only allow you to see your consumption in real time, via smartphone apps or similar and also let the supply companies see it too. At the moment this is of limited use, however going forward It's only a matter of time until they introduce variable tariffs based on time of day (think of a more modern version of the old economy 7 system) This will be required for grid load balancing and could well provide significant benefits to everyone.

 

It won't be long before "smart" devices such as fridges/freezers/washers etc switch themselves on/off to provide grid balancing, especially when everyone starts to charge electric cars......

 

Basically smart meters lay the foundations for all this new technology that's coming.... and make no mistake it is coming, especially for the electricity grid.

 

Mat

[Breastman]

British Gas admits they CAN be turned off remotely on its own website (but they kindly say they won't....)

 

http://www.britishgas.co.uk/help-and-advice/Meters-meter-readings/Smart-Meters/whats-different-with-smart-meters/Will-customers-on-smart-meters-be-disconnected-remotely.html

 

Text;

 

Will customers on smart meters be disconnected remotely?

 

No. With smart meters, energy suppliers have no more powers to disconnect than with a standard meter. On those extremely rare occasions when this is necessary it will be possible to disconnect the meter remotely but for customers in payment difficulties, we will always look for alternatives to disconnection. With smart meters it should be possible for us to help customers having difficulty paying much earlier.

 

(My emphasis)

[Guest]

I can not have one due to solar panels on roof .they don’t work right

[JohnfromUK]

First off, the previous comments about the meters being able to be hacked and people having the power turned off is not true..... The meters have no disconnection method or means of isolation. This function is only provided outside of the meter, by either the supply company's fuse and in conjunction with a local double pole isolator. For the meter to be able to perform this function it would have to be physically much bigger and contain a contactor (in the case of the electricity meter) and a solenoid valve in the case of the gas meter.

 

I believe this is correct; The British Gas site is misleading I think (now there is a surprise); they can turn off the 'smart meter', but they cannot disconnect the supply remotely - for the reasons given above.

 

EDIT - I have since discovered that some overseas (USA) electricity meters do include contacts to 'shut off'

 

Smart devices (such as electric car chargers) that can be 'throttled back' at peak periods already exist, but the facility to throttle back is not supported yet in the UK (as far as I know).

Edited October 19, 2017 by JohnfromUK