panoma1 Posted November 3, 2017 Report Share Posted November 3, 2017 Do believe the Courts will show that honesty and integrity is not all in the domain of underachievers- and dont tell me that because your poor ( either monetary , educationally, physically or mentally) that its an excuse to commit crime. Once again a PW thread digresses to a Class/Wealth path- if you want it- work for it, not every successful person was born with the so called silver spoon ( yes Im too guilty for de-railing the thread too) Anyone poor or wealthy, who by their conduct is corrupt and/or commits a crime, cannot be described as honest and posessing integrity! Mine was not a comment relating to "class" or wealth, it's an observation, be it a generalisation, on society....and I did write " usually" It is not derailing a thread....it's about widening a debate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDog Posted November 3, 2017 Report Share Posted November 3, 2017 Hopefully this will work:https://tompride.wordpress.com/2017/10/31/the-unredacted-spreadsheet-of-40-tory-mps-accused-of-inappropriate-sexual-behaviour/ Thank you. That list is quite something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted November 3, 2017 Report Share Posted November 3, 2017 Hopefully this will work:https://tompride.wordpress.com/2017/10/31/the-unredacted-spreadsheet-of-40-tory-mps-accused-of-inappropriate-sexual-behaviour/ If real? The content of the list is appalling....but the reason the list exists at all, who held it? And for what purpose? Is more worrying! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow Bear Posted November 3, 2017 Report Share Posted November 3, 2017 Thank you. That list is quite something. We now require the same lists for the other parties - or is it just something cooked up to discredit, you only have to look at today's news to know this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapp Posted November 3, 2017 Report Share Posted November 3, 2017 If real? The content of the list is appalling....but the reason the list exists at all, who held it? And for what purpose? Is more worrying! Its purported to be from the Cons whip list, ie the information the whips hold on MPs to 'encourage' (blackmail) them into voting in line with party leadership on key votes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted November 3, 2017 Report Share Posted November 3, 2017 Do we not find it notable or even concerning that this list of Tory only MPs is magically produced as soon as an opportunity presents and the news climate is receptive? With no attributable source, no corroboration or ability to confirm the content and conveniently sent to a range of news providers and not any other parliamentary standards committee or even the police. it all seems rather convenient to me that the only gossip about what would be closely heald secrets relates to the Tory party alone and there is a well ordered and maintained spreadsheet containing this detail. I have no doubt there will be a host of Tory MPs who have been inappropriate, like there will be Labour MPs and every other party too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapp Posted November 3, 2017 Report Share Posted November 3, 2017 Yes, the whip system is common across all parliamentary parties. The ability to control access to it will be as good or bad as internal discipline in the party I would imagine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted November 3, 2017 Report Share Posted November 3, 2017 grrclark - you are thinking along the same lines as myself. All of a sudden, almost the whole of Hollywood / show-business has been assaulted, with allegations coinciding with a return of thirty year old memories. Why have they sat on the allegations for so long? It is because the current climate allows everyone to recount their own horror tale and enjoy their five minutes of fame. Not to be out-done, the UK has been gripped by the frenzy to uncover our own perverts. It all seems very orchestrated, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriBsa Posted November 3, 2017 Report Share Posted November 3, 2017 (edited) Its purported to be from the Cons whip list, ie the information the whips hold on MPs to 'encourage' (blackmail) them into voting in line with party leadership on key votes. According to the Guido Fawkes website, who seems to be on the ball, this spreadsheet was compiled by the Tory aides and researchers themselves. https://order-order.com/2017/10/29/tory-aides-spreadsheet-names-36-sex-pest-mps/ Edited November 3, 2017 by TriBsa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted November 3, 2017 Report Share Posted November 3, 2017 Do we not find it notable or even concerning that this list of Tory only MPs is magically produced as soon as an opportunity presents and the news climate is receptive? With no attributable source, no corroboration or ability to confirm the content and conveniently sent to a range of news providers and not any other parliamentary standards committee or even the police. it all seems rather convenient to me that the only gossip about what would be closely heald secrets relates to the Tory party alone and there is a well ordered and maintained spreadsheet containing this detail. I have no doubt there will be a host of Tory MPs who have been inappropriate, like there will be Labour MPs and every other party too. Im pleased it isnt only me who is thinking this is all so very convenient for opposing parties, individuals and news agencies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted November 3, 2017 Report Share Posted November 3, 2017 Yes, the whip system is common across all parliamentary parties. The ability to control access to it will be as good or bad as internal discipline in the party I would imagine.If it was from the whips office the party hierarchy would know about it and had it been 'allowed' to fall into the press do you think the chief whip would have got a caninet level promotion? If under his watch a dossier of Tory miscreants was given to the press at a time when the government is hanging on by the scantest margin. It it was a whips list once that has gone public they no longer have a lever, you can't encourage a voting behavior with threats of skeletons in the closet if those skeletons are openly dancing throughout every news outlet. I think like all the best rumours there will be some elements of truth, but the majority of this list will be fabricated and nothing other than pure mischief making. Was it the Russians trying to destabilise a major world player? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriBsa Posted November 3, 2017 Report Share Posted November 3, 2017 If it was from the whips office the party hierarchy would know about it and had it been 'allowed' to fall into the press do you think the chief whip would have got a caninet level promotion? If under his watch a dossier of Tory miscreants was given to the press at a time when the government is hanging on by the scantest margin. It it was a whips list once that has gone public they no longer have a lever, you can't encourage a voting behavior with threats of skeletons in the closet if those skeletons are openly dancing throughout every news outlet. I think like all the best rumours there will be some elements of truth, but the majority of this list will be fabricated and nothing other than pure mischief making. Was it the Russians trying to destabilise a major world player? The allegations against Harvey Weinstein were no doubt discussed by the aides and researchers in the House of Commons and parallels drawn by how they were treated by MP's. They decided to act, pool their information and compile a list. Worse allegations are doing the rounds about Labour MP's, including rape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapp Posted November 3, 2017 Report Share Posted November 3, 2017 The allegations against Harvey Weinstein were no doubt discussed by the aides and researchers in the House of Commons and parallels drawn by how they were treated by MP's. They decided to act, pool their information and compile a list. Worse allegations are doing the rounds about Labour MP's, including rape. This was my understanding, though it looks like I was wrong about it being a leak from the whips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted November 3, 2017 Report Share Posted November 3, 2017 The allegations against Harvey Weinstein were no doubt discussed by the aides and researchers in the House of Commons and parallels drawn by how they were treated by MP's. They decided to act, pool their information and compile a list. Worse allegations are doing the rounds about Labour MP's, including rape. That's the thing, it is plausable, after all why wouldn't it be discussed and someone would say 'do you know, this happened to me' and someone else would agree and then it would snowball and someone would prepare a list. Like all rumours or conspiracy there has to be a plausability otherwise it is dismissed out of hand. I am in no doubt that there will have been loads of episodes of inappropriate behaviour historically, judged by todays standard of acceptability as trumpeted by the press and other action groups. The same people who advocate safe spaces and gender neutral comments. I am no apologist for mysogyny and certainly no apologist for people who have subjected someone to a sexual assault, It has been an open secret for years about a casting couch culture in Holywood and it has also been an open secret for years that ambitious bright, young pretty people do rather well when they play favour to the capriciousness of those who hold power. By accepting it is not a closely held secret does not give what happens any acceptability, but it does give cause to question a sudden shock emergence of a neatly held list. If these secret lists are gathered through hushed whispers in the corriders of power don't you think that any decent journalist worth their salt would have known about them or been privvy to them long before now? Those journalists that are all over the researchers and assistants for the tiniest snippet of insight into what is going on, what is being talked about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted November 3, 2017 Report Share Posted November 3, 2017 Yes, Jess Philips was interviewed this morning about allegations surrounding a Labour Party member. I cant help but think all this must be common knowledge within the walls of Westminster, and for some time, just as Weinstein behaviour must have been common knowledge amongst those in positions of influence, including Hilary Clinton, whom was wined and dined by Weinstein in the past, but who now claims ignorance of his actions. Politics is a dirty game; throw in all the primitive instinctive nature that is human sexuality, and it can become even dirtier. We expect people such as these to behave with all the decorum that their position bestows, but theyre human beings. The so called aristocracy could show MPs a thing or two about deviant and devious sexual predation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted November 3, 2017 Report Share Posted November 3, 2017 Mss Leadsom has gone way down in my estimation if all she's griping about is him offering somewhere to warm her hands - that's pretty tame flirtacious banter among mature adults in my opinion - particularly as it was a few years ago. I also think it was very weak of TM to accept the loss if that's all there is. No surprise that a lot of damage is coming from Mandelsons direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Geordie Posted November 3, 2017 Report Share Posted November 3, 2017 More dirt to be dug up! I can confirm that WabbitBosher put his hand on my wood. He even fondled my weapon before asking for payment :o All joking aside, I think most people have in the past made a pass, make a comment that can "under today's considerations" be deemed sexual harrasment. But then the majority of the talk is harmless. As long as when it's made clear they are not interested, you leave it at that. It's a sad situation when you can't compliment a woman for fear of being slapped with a fine, and having to sign the S.O.R The feminist brigade have a lot to answer for I am afraid. If they had their way, we would be locked in cages and only allowed out to mate. I have an extremely attractive young lady some 20 years my junior who is giving me the runaround. Maybe I should file a sexual harrasment case? It seems like the right thing to do doesn't it? I mean I COULD tell her no! But that would be silly. But what other option do I have other than to file a harrasment claim? It's a tough one to work out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted November 3, 2017 Report Share Posted November 3, 2017 Mss Leadsom has gone way down in my estimation if all she's griping about is him offering somewhere to warm her hands - that's pretty tame flirtacious banter among mature adults in my opinion - particularly as it was a few years ago. I also think it was very weak of TM to accept the loss if that's all there is. No surprise that a lot of damage is coming from Mandelsons direction. The big problem is that we want to believe bad things about our MPs. We are content to believe that they are all deviants because it suits our agendas that our MPs are scumbags, more so if it is not a party that we support. It doesn't matter that much of what is highlighted as 'outrageous' behaviour is something that those criticising indulge in themselves, like a bit of flirty banter, MPs are scumbags so let's embrace the bad news about them. I also think that by conflating flirty banter with a serious offence like bullying, intimidation, being handsy or worse that you create so much furore that the serious issues are lost in the noise. If we make everything a heinous crime then those that are genuinely heinous become trivialised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehb102 Posted November 3, 2017 Report Share Posted November 3, 2017 The rock test will be applied whenever we meet up Madam! Ha! We don't work together and there isn't any power imbalance in our relationship anyway, unless you count my great respect for the fact you're a better shot than me :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted November 3, 2017 Report Share Posted November 3, 2017 Well, frankly, none of this compares to banging Diane Abbott! Hopefully this will work:https://tompride.wordpress.com/2017/10/31/the-unredacted-spreadsheet-of-40-tory-mps-accused-of-inappropriate-sexual-behaviour/ Tounge firmly in cheek! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted November 3, 2017 Report Share Posted November 3, 2017 The big problem is that we want to believe bad things about our MPs. No Grr, the media wants us to think bad things about our MPs. We follow like sheep. I saw an unredacted list a few days ago, besides finding the wording hilarious, 'fornicating' being one of my favorites ! The omission of one of the 'guilty' is interesting, conservative MP Kwasi Kwarteng ? Besides some of the names fornicating with him he is not a 'name' Im sorry, but if this is it, no prostitutes, no paedos, no dirty dealing, then Im disappointed ! Just a bit of workplace drunkenness and debauchery, makes them seem quite normal really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted November 3, 2017 Report Share Posted November 3, 2017 No Grr, the media wants us to think bad things about our MPs. We follow like sheep. I saw an unredacted list a few days ago, besides finding the wording hilarious, 'fornicating' being one of my favorites ! The omission of one of the 'guilty' is interesting, conservative MP Kwasi Kwarteng ? Besides some of the names fornicating with him he is not a 'name' Im sorry, but if this is it, no prostitutes, no paedos, no dirty dealing, then Im disappointed ! Just a bit of workplace drunkenness and debauchery, makes them seem quite normal really. Yep, we are very bad at thinking, believing is much less taxing. The list made me laugh too. The entry about Liz Truss made me double take, i read it at first that she actually fornicated on the back benches; i was thinking finally a story of real salacious merit, getting jiggy on the green benches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted November 3, 2017 Report Share Posted November 3, 2017 Yep, we are very bad at thinking, believing is much less taxing. The list made me laugh too. The entry about Liz Truss made me double take, i read it at first that she actually fornicated on the back benches; i was thinking finally a story of real salacious merit, getting jiggy on the green benches. Im glad you agree, some people feigning outrage at all this 'salacious' behaviour, I find it rather tame, its not news, and its not remotely interesting. The fact that its pure opinion or conjecture, which is completely unsubstantiated makes it even less so. Maybe I should say Ken Clark bought me a pint once and talked about girls, and I felt it was inappropriate and unwanted at the time 20 years ago ? Get my name out there like ? Or maybe I just made it up ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted November 3, 2017 Report Share Posted November 3, 2017 If we make everything a heinous crime then those that are genuinely heinous become trivialised. On the money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krugerandsmith Posted November 4, 2017 Report Share Posted November 4, 2017 Jumped before being pushed. No way is this just over touching a knee 15 years ago, lots more dirt being dug. Question. Will any Gay men be coming forward to register a complaint? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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