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mattyg1086
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4 minutes ago, aga man said:

Very good point, they all claim to be pro conservation but how? Most big estates I shoot pigeon on do very little in the way of vermin control.

It will depend on what they produce, but as you are killing their pigeons you are obviously controlling the vermin that matters to them.

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7 minutes ago, CharlieT said:

It will depend on what they produce, but as you are killing their pigeons you are obviously controlling the vermin that matters to them.

Killing the pigeons is helping the farmers, I am talking about the game shoots that operate on the estates. My father was an old school gamekeeper who's priorty was vermin control, which in turn helped the wildlife conservation hugely. The modern shoots just seem to release masses of birds and tonnes of feed then invite paying guests and hope for the best.

Edited by aga man
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So do u not think feeding tonnes of wheat helps conservation?

Sadly u'll never turn back the clock o the days of old keepers and truly wild bird shoots, but even the many cover crops planted, hoppers and the few vermin keepers control are a massive boost for conservation and far beter than on un shot land. U onl have to see the numbers of LBJ's on any feed ride or cover crop to see some benefits.

Most diy type syndicates can't afford to put in cover crops o plant woodland etc

Also wots to stop farmers ripping out woodland/hedges in many cases shooting interests help keep wot little habitat is left in decent nick.

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Back when I used to shoot pigeon every single chance I got, my biggest problem was finding someone who'd take them, whether it was 10 or 20p a bird was immaterial but I always drove them to a house in Dover which belonged to the father of a chap who worked on the ferries and who used to collect and hold them till they had enough to take to France or make the trip to a game dealer worthwhile.

When that source dried up I chased after fishmongers and butchers and managed to give the odd bag away, essentially the hassle made me often stop after I'd shot 40-50 birds because I could just about manage to breast, pluck or give them away to people, I simply wasn't prepared to dump them and I have never pretended I'm in it to protect farmers crops (if I've helped in anyway over the years then fair enough) but my primary reason for going out has been to get into the countryside next to nature and pull the trigger.

Today I own the most sophisticated rimfire and air guns known to man and have access to air gun paradises where I could guarantee killing 40-50 collard doves or dozens of rabbits but sadly have to restrict my outings to suit respectfully getting rid of the bag, if anyone knows of a magpie or rat infested haven let me know. 

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I have just been added to a FB group called  "Giving Up The Game" : 

Welcome to all new members, my husband is a great believer that all game shot should be used, so he set this group up, along with Lee Mulcock, to allow people to exchange excess game or produce in their local areas as well sharing recipes and tips to get the best out of the game!
So far we have personally experienced the benefits of this group by being able to share some venison with local families and see them enjoy it!
We have tried adding a map to the group to help with locating people in your areas but alas I do not have the technical abilities (!) so please keep posting where you are and kept an eye out for game near you!
The further we can spread the word the better! 
Many thanks - AlexanderWyatt

Any estate having trouble disposing of their game could perhaps consider joining the site, I can easily see this taking off with a rapidly developing map showing locations of members and estates willing to give or sell edible meat cheaply. 

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I really do believe the answer is for all of us to promote Game to Eat .

I either sell my Game to local Pubs , give it away to friends , but best of all , prepare it , oven ready and then deliver it to the pensioners in the local Alms Houses , they really appreciate my efforts .

Surely the Indian Restaurants would take them as Curry ingrediants?????

Why don't you all find a good Pub or Restaurant that will put on a Game to Eat evening , you supply the Game , Pheasants , Rabbits , Squirrels and BASC Regional Officers promote the evenings ? Pub gets free ingrediants , Breweries sell beer , BASC gets free publicity .

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Interesting read, I've been on small diy shoots where every single thing was taken and your stood there hoping for a duck, and I've been on large days 250, I think of this as large, and seen birds being hung and everyone guns beaters etc takes a brace.

here is my idea, if the Estates can't sell their birds then they should advertise locally saying there will be birds available during the shooting season 50p a bird every Saturday dinner time, or Sunday say from such and such pub car park or the estate that way they aren't simply dumping birds, and they can't be accused of not trying to use the birds that have been shot, won't use up all the shot birds but better than what we have now, three hours maybe a week could just be different shoots doing it each week, can only be good PR.

the problem with game these days is people don't know it and an oven ready chicken probably costs the same as that strange pheasant thing.

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I didn't realise it was this bad, there are often rumours and old wive's tales that are re-spun time and again regarding unwanted gamebirds. But most always discounted them, as they were often spread by those with an axe to grind, and related to badly shot or damaged birds that were unfit for human consumption.

However, this year [for whatever reason] so many more are writing about it on PW. Like others I know of a shoot and the gamedealer wants to be paid to take the birds, where previously he has always paid. For now it is a case that everyone can have whatever game they would like from the day. But for many shoots the supply would be too much for the guys there on the day, even if they are distributing them. Just have to ask where the European market has gone, CharlieT alluded it's shrunk, but I'm not sure why. With a weak pound surely British game should be better value than ever for export?

If true I think it is terrible, and will tar shooting for years to come. If someone asked me to explain the alleged practice, I simply wouldn't be able to, other than say it is not something I would ever take part in or support.

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1 hour ago, timmytree said:

I still can't get my head around the wastage. A foreign introduced bird reared in huge numbers, then released to be shot by paying customers.

Personally I see pheasants as tasty vermin no better than grey squirrels. Neither species should be here.

If it weren’t for driven pheasant shooting there would be no tradition of shooting in this country, and I seriously doubt very few of us would have firearms.

Think about it.

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On ‎19‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 16:47, dipper said:

Over the last few shoots. I've shot on several different shoots .I always take birds home usually more than a brace.And most of them have been in a shocking state most dog damage .ive watched on several occasions 2 dog with a pheasant.The end product looks like a crocodiles had hold of it.Hard mouth dogs , Heavy cartridges big shot' .When they're dressed thay look a mess .When the keepers short of   beaters anyone with a dog will do.Theres a lot of hard mouthed dogs out there .Dipper.

I have noticed a lot of birds I take home these days either have huge holes from canon fire or deep teeth marks from hard mouthed dogs. Fortunately I can use damaged game in pies and sausage.  I think this desire to shoot canon shells and have a dog which retrieves in a blur of speed has to bear some of the blame. How often these days, on a driven shoot do you see clouds of feathers drifting down. That bird had to be too close or the load was too heavy for the job. 

Part of the answer is for shoots to market the birds themselves. The Catton Estate is doing just this with some success and I have been trying to spread the word. Local pub had a sample of partridge crowns and they went like hot cakes. If I have an excess of birds then I make a few calls to friends who don't shoot but enjoy eating game and they get snapped up.  The market is there.

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20 minutes ago, Scully said:

If it weren’t for driven pheasant shooting there would be no tradition of shooting in this country, and I seriously doubt very few of us would have firearms.

Think about it.

Pheasants weren't the only quarry in the countryside, plenty of shooting happened that didn't involve pheasants. 

I know we all have a right to an opinion but my conscience doesn't sit happy with birds being deliberately reared to be shot, often by people who won't eat them and if we believe this thread, incinerated to get rid of them. 

The odd birds I pick off are shot because they're a nuisance, they get eaten, not wasted. 

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2 hours ago, Scully said:

If it weren’t for driven pheasant shooting there would be no tradition of shooting in this country, and I seriously doubt very few of us would have firearms.

Think about it.

I really like reading about shooting in the USA they may do driven shoots I'm not sure, but they seem to be more small scale, hunting rather than big bags.

I realise that shooting in this country is big big business but picture this for worst case scenario, Labour get into power and decide that only toffs shoot pheasants, they won't care less about the jobs that are involved, if its proved that hundreds of birds are simply being shot for sport nothing else how long before they ban it? This for me is why there needs to be a very public effort to be using the birds shot on shoot days in the food chain, its insurance for the future of shooting.

They tried to have a go at fishing then realised that was a mistake, millions of folk fish and most put the fish back, game shooting can't say that when there are 200 plus birds on the ground at who knows how many places around the country 4 & 5 days a week.

here is another idea, these big shoots have already charged £30 a bird? If they process these and freeze them then donate to charity either in this country or abroad could this then be claimed back against there tax bill? It would certainly look better than what may be happening now and help safe guard shooting for future generations.

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2 hours ago, timmytree said:

Pheasants weren't the only quarry in the countryside, plenty of shooting happened that didn't involve pheasants. 

I know we all have a right to an opinion but my conscience doesn't sit happy with birds being deliberately reared to be shot, often by people who won't eat them and if we believe this thread, incinerated to get rid of them. 

The odd birds I pick off are shot because they're a nuisance, they get eaten, not wasted. 

Like I said; think about it. I’m not sure you have.

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21 minutes ago, Mice! said:

I really like reading about shooting in the USA they may do driven shoots I'm not sure, but they seem to be more small scale, hunting rather than big bags.

I realise that shooting in this country is big big business but picture this for worst case scenario, Labour get into power and decide that only toffs shoot pheasants, they won't care less about the jobs that are involved, if its proved that hundreds of birds are simply being shot for sport nothing else how long before they ban it? This for me is why there needs to be a very public effort to be using the birds shot on shoot days in the food chain, its insurance for the future of shooting.

They tried to have a go at fishing then realised that was a mistake, millions of folk fish and most put the fish back, game shooting can't say that when there are 200 plus birds on the ground at who knows how many places around the country 4 & 5 days a week.

here is another idea, these big shoots have already charged £30 a bird? If they process these and freeze them then donate to charity either in this country or abroad could this then be claimed back against there tax bill? It would certainly look better than what may be happening now and help safe guard shooting for future generations.

thing is in the US and Canada there is lots and lots of hunting ground. We don't have that in the UK which is why driven is popular.

 

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Realise that mate, think this is why I like smaller diy style shoots, hard work still but generally folk appreciate the smaller bag. Also realise some people just want to arrive and shoot, each to there own but if game shooting doesn't get its house in order then I doubt my lad or daughter will ever stand waiting for a pheasant to come over the trees.

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To be honest driven shooting doesn't stand much of a chance when by this thread many fellow shooters are against it never mind the anti's.

 

IN Usa/Canada/nz an many parts of Europe too the land is oftn owned by the government or shooting rights by the local community, driven shooting does happn on some private estates just as it does here, but an awful lot of the shootin is free.

 

I don't think some on here really appreciate how much the benefits of driven shooting filters down to all other aspects of shooting.

Even ur very basic 20-30 birds diy syndicate type shoot would be far far more expensive to run if it wasn't for the big commercial estates, game farms, feed companies, poultry medicine producers etc probably wouldn't bother producing products or licencing them for game or would be a lot more expensive.

 

Even when u go down to smaller scale shooting many of the benefits of shooting decrease as they don't have a FT keeper or the cash to plant new woods, dig ponds or plant cover crops.

 

The anti's don't give a stuff about big bags, 1 bird is too many, they would happily see us fall over ourself's to set self imposed bag limits and then make them legally binding before screwing them own.

 

Thoose that are against these 'big' bags, have u ever been to a big bag day??

I mind the estate I started work on as a YT keeper, I can remember in the old days shooting 100, then 150 and on a big day almost 200 bird days and they were quality birds.

I left the area for uni/work etc change of shoot captain to newer ideas bags went steadily up to as high as 700 a day, I thought the same as many on here initially, but when u went bak to the shoot the birds are still the same quality it's just the. drives last longer

 

We really have to stop publishing the fact as we're doing the anti's job, and I must admit I'm with JDog I still even this year have never heard of it or spoke to anyone has  actually seen it 1st hand

 And we have to start supporting all types of shooting, I would (or couldn't ever justify) spending that sort of money on 1 days sport but it pays for my dog food and gives me work, same with many beaters/kids.

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Well said Scotslad.

People really need to get a grip of exactly what the numbers of birds shot on driven days actually represent.

A 200 bird day is only 3 birds per drive per gun. Correspondingly a 400 bird day is  only 6 birds per gun, which can hardly be described as excessive shooting.

Shooting generates £2bn into the economy, couple this with the huge benefits it brings to the environment, employment and businesses and one starts to appreciate just how important driven shooting is.

Both the CA and BASC have spent much time and effort over the past few years promoting the eating of game, couple this with the effort put in by shoots and the wider  industry as a whole and I'm sure, in the end, we will convince the wider public to eat game meat. It's starting to happen, it just needs to happen quicker. 

Be positive gentlemen. 

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