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Dog killed by pit bull type in Manchester


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I saw the poor woman owner of the Beagle cop a load of flack over the various social media sites for not getting in the middle and trying to rescue her dog.

Having watched the video and knowing a little about the breeds involved (and factoring in the possibility of the rogue dogs' owner coming at you) I don't think there's much she or anyone could have done (apart from the rogue dogs' owner).

It made me question what I would do in a similar situation and realistically without a spear like object, a blade or a firearm I don't think I would get the better of two well build dogs that have been bred for their aggression and bite.

Out of interest, has anyone on here got stuck in with a dog / pack of dogs and how did they get on? And I'm not talking Jack Russell or poodles.

I've only been bitten (and had blood drawn) by 3 dogs: a welsh border collie, a jack Russell and a Tibetan terrier. The worst bite was off the (old and cantankerous) Tibetan terrier that had hardly any teeth (the OAP owner fed it digestives dunked in sugary tea and as a result it had very few teeth) - when the little *** bit me he went clean through my thumb nail and thumb and out the other side and it made me wonder what a fighting breed of dog full of adrenaline could do. Indeed, it's not a pleasant thought and it's why I won't have a dog in the house that I or Mrs. Mungler couldn't get the better of if it came to it.

An interesting discussion topic and quite thought provoking.

 

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8 minutes ago, Mungler said:

I saw the poor woman owner of the Beagle cop a load of flack over the various social media sites for not getting in the middle and trying to rescue her dog.

Having watched the video and knowing a little about the breeds involved (and factoring in the possibility of the rogue dogs' owner coming at you) I don't think there's much she or anyone could have done (apart from the rogue dogs' owner).

It made me question what I would do in a similar situation and realistically without a spear like object, a blade or a firearm I don't think I would get the better of two well build dogs that have been bred for their aggression and bite.

Out of interest, has anyone on here got stuck in with a dog / pack of dogs and how did they get on? And I'm not talking Jack Russell or poodles.

I've only been bitten (and had blood drawn) by 3 dogs: a welsh border collie, a jack Russell and a Tibetan terrier. The worst bite was off the (old and cantankerous) Tibetan terrier that had hardly any teeth (the OAP owner fed it digestives dunked in sugary tea and as a result it had very few teeth) - when the little *** bit me he went clean through my thumb nail and thumb and out the other side and it made me wonder what a fighting breed of dog full of adrenaline could do. Indeed, it's not a pleasant thought and it's why I won't have a dog in the house that I or Mrs. Mungler couldn't get the better of if it came to it.

An interesting discussion topic and quite thought provoking.

 

Unarmed I don't think you don't stand a chance against large aggressive dogs unless you're Charles Bronson and fancy your chances of putting them in a headlock and making them go to sleep.

If they see red and go into a full scale attack personally i think the best thing to do is feed it your least favourite arm and try not to go to the ground to keep it away from your throat / face.

 

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The Nanny dog thing really does make me laugh.

http://thetruthaboutpitbulls.blogspot.co.uk/2010/08/nanny-dog-myth-revealed.html?m=1

An interesting read, I think the romantic myth of the nanny dog really is just a myth. 

My parents had a staffy when me and my brother were babies, he lived until 14 but he was no more or less a “nanny” than the border terrier they have now. 

 

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I have to say that i agree that any dog can be dangerous but there are breeds of dogs that were bred for a long time to fight or be very brave/aggressive, these are normally very powerful breeds and I think it’s fair to say stopping a small terrier or similar from attacking/fighting would be far easier to do than one of these so called bull types of dogs as they are a lot stronger than most types. If the owner is not capable of stopping his/her dog the maybe they should not have that type of dog?

Just saying

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32 minutes ago, Mungler said:

I saw the poor woman owner of the Beagle cop a load of flack over the various social media sites for not getting in the middle and trying to rescue her dog.

Having watched the video and knowing a little about the breeds involved (and factoring in the possibility of the rogue dogs' owner coming at you) I don't think there's much she or anyone could have done (apart from the rogue dogs' owner).

It made me question what I would do in a similar situation and realistically without a spear like object, a blade or a firearm I don't think I would get the better of two well build dogs that have been bred for their aggression and bite.

Out of interest, has anyone on here got stuck in with a dog / pack of dogs and how did they get on? And I'm not talking Jack Russell or poodles.

I've only been bitten (and had blood drawn) by 3 dogs: a welsh border collie, a jack Russell and a Tibetan terrier. The worst bite was off the (old and cantankerous) Tibetan terrier that had hardly any teeth (the OAP owner fed it digestives dunked in sugary tea and as a result it had very few teeth) - when the little *** bit me he went clean through my thumb nail and thumb and out the other side and it made me wonder what a fighting breed of dog full of adrenaline could do. Indeed, it's not a pleasant thought and it's why I won't have a dog in the house that I or Mrs. Mungler couldn't get the better of if it came to it.

An interesting discussion topic and quite thought provoking.

 

 

I think In that situation it’s all or nothing, I’ve belted a few dogs in the past for going at my dog, but with two savage dogs like those 2 in the video and a woman who’s not up for a dirty fight with them she had no chance.. they would have really hurt her like they did to that dog, I will say one thing tho the owner could have done more, he just walked away, as I’ve said I hope he gets jailed but I doubt it...

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1 hour ago, Mungler said:

I saw the poor woman owner of the Beagle cop a load of flack over the various social media sites for not getting in the middle and trying to rescue her dog.

Having watched the video and knowing a little about the breeds involved (and factoring in the possibility of the rogue dogs' owner coming at you) I don't think there's much she or anyone could have done (apart from the rogue dogs' owner).

It made me question what I would do in a similar situation and realistically without a spear like object, a blade or a firearm I don't think I would get the better of two well build dogs that have been bred for their aggression and bite.

Out of interest, has anyone on here got stuck in with a dog / pack of dogs and how did they get on? And I'm not talking Jack Russell or poodles.

I've only been bitten (and had blood drawn) by 3 dogs: a welsh border collie, a jack Russell and a Tibetan terrier. The worst bite was off the (old and cantankerous) Tibetan terrier that had hardly any teeth (the OAP owner fed it digestives dunked in sugary tea and as a result it had very few teeth) - when the little *** bit me he went clean through my thumb nail and thumb and out the other side and it made me wonder what a fighting breed of dog full of adrenaline could do. Indeed, it's not a pleasant thought and it's why I won't have a dog in the house that I or Mrs. Mungler couldn't get the better of if it came to it.

An interesting discussion topic and quite thought provoking.

 

I am no fool or particularly brave, I’ve been bitten a few times and had my dogs attacked three times over the years, but if faced with a large dog/s attacking either you or your dog you have two choices, if a dog/s are attacking your dog, you either walk away or get stuck in, if its you being attacked you have no option but to use your knowledge of dogs and try to make it back off or kill it, without a weapon that is more difficult and you are likely to come out of it with a few scares, but it can be done.

That’s why whenever I took my dog for a walk on private land or the local park I always had a very heavy walking stick and my fold-up knife in my shooting coat pocket.  

Edited by old'un
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1 hour ago, cromwell7 said:

The Nanny dog thing really does make me laugh.

http://thetruthaboutpitbulls.blogspot.co.uk/2010/08/nanny-dog-myth-revealed.html?m=1

An interesting read, I think the romantic myth of the nanny dog really is just a myth. 

My parents had a staffy when me and my brother were babies, he lived until 14 but he was no more or less a “nanny” than the border terrier they have now. 

 

And for every post like that there's a one were they're trusted, the NYPD are happy to let this one off the lead in one of the highest populated areas:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/meet-the-first-official-pit-bull-police-dog-in-the-state-of-new-york/

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/julie-leroy/new-yorks-first-k9-pit-bu_b_9157774.html

http://www.lifewithdogs.tv/2016/02/pit-bulls-are-the-new-breed-of-police-dogs/

That's the problem with the internet opinions are read as facts, the 'author' of the link you provided hasn't sited any references in the last century, which is on par with saying cars don't go over 16mph (as per 1920), ironically the tag line of the page is about "Facts" yet they produce none and even attempt to denounce other experts (backup by facts) without providing any!

Edited by Deker
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I have been lucky and never had a dog attack mine.

My Sister had her mini schnauzer who was on a lead attacked by a medium sized Staffordshire bull terrier. She is a big powerful lady and she got badly bitten on the arms trying to fend the attacker off her dog. Her dog had his ear badly torn and multiple bites round neck and shoulders.                                                                                  The staffy which was unattended ran off and my Sister ended up at A&E and her dog at the Vets. My Sister has scars on her arms from this and her schnauzer got cancer within the year around the wound sites and despite the Vet doing his best she lost him within 6 months. They never found the staffy.

Edited by loriusgarrulus
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22 minutes ago, Deker said:

And for every post like that there's a one were they're trusted, the NYPD are happy to let this one off the lead in one of the highest populated areas:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/meet-the-first-official-pit-bull-police-dog-in-the-state-of-new-york/

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/julie-leroy/new-yorks-first-k9-pit-bu_b_9157774.html

http://www.lifewithdogs.tv/2016/02/pit-bulls-are-the-new-breed-of-police-dogs/

That's the problem with the internet opinions are read as facts, the 'author' of the link you provided hasn't sited any references in the last century, which is on par with saying cars don't go over 16mph (as per 1920), ironically the tag line of the page is about "Facts" yet they produce none and even attempt to denounce other experts (backup by facts) without providing any!

That’s exactly why I posted it! 

People taking the “nanny dog” myth as fact there is no proof either way.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, cromwell7 said:

That’s exactly why I posted it! 

People taking the “nanny dog” myth as fact there is no proof either way,

 

 

 

Ah correct, I misread your post, yes it's all about the owner.

Pretty much any puppy will end up being a "nanny dog" with the right upbringing (my Staffy behaves very much like my old Boxer did with me), however some of the traits of the bull breed is bonding (it's also why they get swapped and traded so easy by chavs) so they do tend to fit in to a new place or owner easily (they adapt well from rescue centers), but with this in mind they don't forget their past, mine had been mistreated by his previous owner and if any shouting starts he cowers... caused him a few upsets when working on my house and shouting between rooms :/

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What has happened here is one that I always worry about.  We have a mini dachshund and a cocker spaniel.  There are a couple of not overly friendly dogs in my village who's owners think that it's OK to have the dogs off the lead.  When I see these dogs I always have my dogs on the lead, and ask the owners to do the same, am always greeted with 'oh he's OK', when it's obviously not.  I have pointed out to them that one chomp on a little dog like mine and it would be dead, and refuse to move until they control the dog. 

We did have an old, cranky dachshund that would stand her ground if any dog came over, a lab/poodle cross came bounding up and I asked the owner to put her dog on the lead, to be met with the same, oh he's OK.  When I replied that mine wasn't, the look on her face was a picture, she soon grabbed the dog.

Seeing the pictures of the toddler with these dogs in question just fills me with dread, no matter how impeccably behaved these dogs have been in the past, but maybe that's my fear of these dogs in general.

Having been bitten by a mini dachshund a couple of times, I don't think I'd want to stand in the middle of one of these big breeds, in fear of what it might do to me.

It's just the attitude of these people, with little respect for anyone/anything else, that I find appalling.  And that's the crux of the matter, it's always the owners fault.  If these people feel the need to have these kind of dogs, they must take full responsibility and have a bit of respect for other people.  The same could be said for those owners that let their dogs chase livestock, again, no respect. 

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Out of interest, has anyone on here got stuck in with a dog / pack of dogs and how did they get on?

Years ago, we had three rather large GSDs. The two males had a scrap and I rather foolishly stepped in to try and separate them. I ended up with a nasty wound in my leg and losing more blood than I could afford. Never again.

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5 hours ago, Mungler said:

I saw the poor woman owner of the Beagle cop a load of flack over the various social media sites for not getting in the middle and trying to rescue her dog.

Having watched the video and knowing a little about the breeds involved (and factoring in the possibility of the rogue dogs' owner coming at you) I don't think there's much she or anyone could have done (apart from the rogue dogs' owner).

It made me question what I would do in a similar situation and realistically without a spear like object, a blade or a firearm I don't think I would get the better of two well build dogs that have been bred for their aggression and bite.

Out of interest, has anyone on here got stuck in with a dog / pack of dogs and how did they get on? And I'm not talking Jack Russell or poodles.

I've only been bitten (and had blood drawn) by 3 dogs: a welsh border collie, a jack Russell and a Tibetan terrier. The worst bite was off the (old and cantankerous) Tibetan terrier that had hardly any teeth (the OAP owner fed it digestives dunked in sugary tea and as a result it had very few teeth) - when the little *** bit me he went clean through my thumb nail and thumb and out the other side and it made me wonder what a fighting breed of dog full of adrenaline could do. Indeed, it's not a pleasant thought and it's why I won't have a dog in the house that I or Mrs. Mungler couldn't get the better of if it came to it.

An interesting discussion topic and quite thought provoking.

 

A bull breed would bite clean through your finger and break your arm if bitten as I said before I've always had staffs but I'm a big guy and they have always been under control not sure what sort of image that projects but they are big softies. I have rescued a weimaraner from a bull breed (not mine) which was being attacked outside my house a few years ago and the woman just froze holding the lead I took the dog back to its house which was a few doors down and known to be aggressive. If they have a collar on its easy to control them you just hold the collar like a handle and twist it choking the dog, after a few seconds breathing becomes more important to them than trying to fight and they stop.  If they have no collar on then a massive display of aggression will put some off if not you have to give it arm arm to grab and then you can climb on top to pin it to the floor, this is not fun and will hurt alot but it does work and I have the scars to show for it.   More than one dog I couldn't say as it's never happened to me. It's easy to say I'd do this or that but the truth is until your in the situation you don't know what you will do.  I can only speak from experience with bull breeds though and I'm not sure how you could rectify this problem as the breeds get the blame when really it's the owners who are to blame for the problem. all dogs have it in them to attack they are after all domesticated wolves and I think people forget that sometimes and you are more likely to be bitten by a jack Russel or a collie than you are a bull type dog it's just the damage that can be done I'd different and is therefore reported in the media more often for shock value to sell papers or get viewing figures. You need to read up on the history of the fighting dogs to have a better understanding of them. A true fighting dog will attack another dog on command but you will be able to get in to stop it.   Man biters were never tolerated and killed thus removing them from the gene pool.  These dogs which are out of control and biting people are far from what the breeds were they have been bred by idiots that want a status symbol because for whatever reason it looks good having a dog straining at the lead and snarling at people.    Maybe a license would help I don't know the answer

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1 minute ago, mattyg1086 said:

A bull breed would bite clean through your finger and break your arm if bitten as I said before I've always had staffs but I'm a big guy and they have always been under control not sure what sort of image that projects but they are big softies. I have rescued a weimaraner from a bull breed (not mine) which was being attacked outside my house a few years ago and the woman just froze holding the lead I took the dog back to its house which was a few doors down and known to be aggressive. If they have a collar on its easy to control them you just hold the collar like a handle and twist it choking the dog, after a few seconds breathing becomes more important to them than trying to fight and they stop.  If they have no collar on then a massive display of aggression will put some off if not you have to give it arm arm to grab and then you can climb on top to pin it to the floor, this is not fun and will hurt alot but it does work and I have the scars to show for it.   More than one dog I couldn't say as it's never happened to me. It's easy to say I'd do this or that but the truth is until your in the situation you don't know what you will do.  I can only speak from experience with bull breeds though and I'm not sure how you could rectify this problem as the breeds get the blame when really it's the owners who are to blame for the problem. all dogs have it in them to attack they are after all domesticated wolves and I think people forget that sometimes and you are more likely to be bitten by a jack Russel or a collie than you are a bull type dog it's just the damage that can be done I'd different and is therefore reported in the media more often for shock value to sell papers or get viewing figures. You need to read up on the history of the fighting dogs to have a better understanding of them. A true fighting dog will attack another dog on command but you will be able to get in to stop it.   Man biters were never tolerated and killed thus removing them from the gene pool.  These dogs which are out of control and biting people are far from what the breeds were they have been bred by idiots that want a status symbol because for whatever reason it looks good having a dog straining at the lead and snarling at people.    Maybe a license would help I don't know the answer

 

Nice post, this thread is a prime example of the way things get twisted, the original link doesn't mention pit bulls yet it still made it into the thread title

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I've always said to the misses don't ever try and separate two dogs fighting, when people go leaning in trying to grab there dog I cringe, lots of noise kick push with your foot, but not your hands so much damage can be done by a single bite, I'm sure someone said they carry cif or something similar in case of there dog being attacked.

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1 hour ago, Deker said:

 

Nice post, this thread is a prime example of the way things get twisted, the original link doesn't mention pit bulls yet it still made it into the thread title

Because at the time people only had the pictures on the internet, that’s why I said “ pit bull type” as that what it looked like, I’ve posted all the updates as it’s happened, so I’ve not twisted anything.. 

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The kennel Club UK does not recognize pitt bulls as a breed, Over the pond they do.

If it was a recognized breed here then it would fall into the mastiff class not terrier.

I live in Romford so its compulsory to have a Staffie, He is never off his lead when out for a walk and I am never out without my trusty jiff lemon filled with pure lemon juice, nothing else. If fido comes over to my dog givin it large then a generous blast across the eyes has him running for the hills. Sadly though carrying liquids now even in a plastic lemon is just as bad as getting caught with a blade. So I have to be a bit careful

 

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Apparently the person filming was a passer by who tried to help and only started filming after it was too late, which is probably a good thing as now the owner and dogs can be properly identified. I heard someone else has come forward saying their dog was attacked by them not long ago but could't ID them, so that wont help any defence.

What can you do about these things though? Have a blanket ban on all bull breeds for say, 10 years? See if it can bring their numbers down and see if there is a fall in the number of these kind of attacks? Would probably reduce the amount in rescue centres - or do people just move on to different breeds and the cycle continues....

Well, if it was between getting bitten by a staff and a jack russell i know what i'd choose lol

 

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The problem lies without a doubt with people, the only way to tackle this kind of problem is to come down on these people, banning breeds won't solve the problem as they will simply flout the ban by either owning other breeds of dogs, or crossing the banned breeds with others or by breeding their own banned breeds.

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