Thermal imaging and foxes

[Dougy]

55 minutes ago, Rim Fire said:

I think thats the difference Doughy spotting with thermal rather spotting with an IR unit with us down this end  they are used to a Red beam when they see the IR they think here we go again so they take flight as you say spotting with thermal they dont see anything you having a few up there

 

 

Not had many, but not seen many so kind of good. Keeping the numbers down. Heard a vixen calling Friday night, but truck was stuck in a field so was not into shooting. All gear was packed up and on my way to a road for a lift home. I'll be out tomorrow night so should get a something.  

[Gerry78]

Was hoping to get myself a centerfire rifle in the new year used to lamp foxes  years ago But talking to fellas that shoot foxes and reading these posts i see that foxing has changed with thermal and night vision Now i dont want to start a massive debate my fox shooting would be a couple of farms with crops on them Which would be a couple of outings per year i work shifts young family etc  by the time i buy rifle/scope/moderator i wondnt have the money to buy thermal o night vision i have lamp and high power torch For my 22 rimfire  IS there anyone on FORUM WHO STILL JUST LAMPS or im i wasting my time

[Rim Fire]

10 minutes ago, Gerry78 said:

Was hoping to get myself a centerfire rifle in the new year used to lamp foxes  years ago But talking to fellas that shoot foxes and reading these posts i see that foxing has changed with thermal and night vision Now i dont want to start a massive debate my fox shooting would be a couple of farms with crops on them Which would be a couple of outings per year i work shifts young family etc  by the time i buy rifle/scope/moderator i wondnt have the money to buy thermal o night vision i have lamp and high power torch For my 22 rimfire  IS there anyone on FORUM WHO STILL JUST LAMPS or im i wasting my time

You are never wasting your time its great to just get out you haven't got to shoot at night you can lay up and wait for them if not to cold or use the torches you use on your rim fires lots of ways to shoot fox 

[wymberley]

RF is right; you don't have to shoot at night unless you're on a mission. By the sound of your post, you're not going to be reloading. If that is correct, think hard about your proposed maximum range - day or night. The vast majority of foxes are shot at a distance well below 200 yards. Choosing a calibre that will handle that can save considerably on ammo costs. Although NV or TI can be advantageous, careful use of a spotting lamp has worked for decades and is not to be sniffed at especially when used with a decent caller.

[Dougy]

Gerry, every thing changes, don't know how long it's been since you have seen shooting but things have no doubt changed since then. Scopes, moderators,  bi-pods, rifle stocks now come in plastic, 4x4 are now as popular as black cars used to be. 

Neither night vision or thermal are necessary pieces of equipment to carry out vermin control,  plenty still use lamps. Not everyone that shoots is on PW, I know of quite a few that still use lamps, I see few out once in a blue moon, but one of those shooters talks about most of his shooting in the pub lol. 

Using thermal and NV is a boring night out if you have company, most of the time the only person seeing anything is the rifleman, unlike lamping it's all visible. One big advantage of our modern equipment is the weight of the lamping set up. No longer do we hump about the countryside with battery's and lamps weighing 20 odd pounds.  You have the same kind of light output in your top pocket. 

[Gerry78]

Thanks i think il just use a lamp or torch as i say it will be only the odd fox here and there I Know one thing my rifle will be a wooden stock rifle same as my 22 i just cant take to plastic stocks rather than buy a NV Kit or thermal il put extra cash towards good scope prob S@BENDER fixed power im old school lol cheers

[Guest]

If you think NV and thermal is unsporting, how do you justify using a rifle?

[CharlieT]

3 minutes ago, THEBIGMAN said:

If you think NV and thermal is unsporting, how do you justify using a rifle?

Perhaps you would like to define sporting.

[Guest]

No, ‘sporting’ is a term used by other people. It’s fun vermin control for me and I have no problem with people using NV

[Guest]

I would add though that ‘sporting’ is generally a term used by people to describe how they like to do things but dress them up as how things ‘should’ be done. 

 Eg,  shots on grounded birds or birds on branches are not ‘sporting’. As if the animal is somehow a willing participant.

[oowee]

I am mostly with with RS on this. I use TI to spot and IR to soot and shoot as many as I can when I can. Just like all the crows, rooks and pigeons I shoot the supply is endless. I don't want to see the end of any of them but want to use the best tools for the job, to do the best job possible. Despite shooting on 20 plus farms there is lots of land in between where there is no control and however efficient I am I still feel it's just a tip of the iceberg. I still get lots of calls telling me of nuisance foxes regardless of how well i think I am doing on the numbers.

[Wb123]

I spot and shoot with red light, but my permissions are very keen on keeping a visible but controlled population. 

 

If eradication had business value for the landowners and was therefore expected thermal or ir would doubtless be useful. As I have no desire to achieve eradication and they don't want it I stick with the lamp. If I were taking such an approach covering vulnerable livestock or crops I expect someone else would be asked to take over. 

Edited December 21, 2017 by Wb123

[bumpy22]

14 minutes ago, oowee said:

I am mostly with with RS on this. I use TI to spot and IR to soot and shoot as many as I can when I can. Just like all the crows, rooks and pigeons I shoot the supply is endless. I don't want to see the end of any of them but want to use the best tools for the job, to do the best job possible. Despite shooting on 20 plus farms there is lots of land in between where there is no control and however efficient I am I still feel it's just a tip of the iceberg. I still get lots of calls telling me of nuisance foxes regardless of how well i think I am doing on the numbers.

if you dont like the idea of thermal and nv  for making it too easy. you should try it i can assure you it is not as simple as spot and shoot. you still need good knowledge of your quarry and good fieldcraft to get on them. still watch many we cant get at because they have winded,heard you, seen you or are unsafe etc. i think it just helps to deal with foxes that have had lights shined at them regular, shots missed and people over calling them. i personally cant see the problem if people are prepared to better there equipment. then good on them for making a job more efficent. i think eradication of the fox would be quite some achievement

Edited December 21, 2017 by bumpy22

[WelshMike]

12 hours ago, bumpy22 said:

if you dont like the idea of thermal and nv  for making it too easy. you should try it i can assure you it is not as simple as spot and shoot. you still need good knowledge of your quarry and good fieldcraft to get on them. still watch many we cant get at because they have winded,heard you, seen you or are unsafe etc. i think it just helps to deal with foxes that have had lights shined at them regular, shots missed and people over calling them. i personally cant see the problem if people are prepared to better there equipment. then good on them for making a job more efficent. i think eradication of the fox would be quite some achievement

+1 

I have a feeling most of us on this forum have embraced technology and have newfangled inventions such as cars, central heating and dont live in caves and hunt with bows and arrow. If you do it for a bit of fun and are happy with what you have ...great. If you want to be as efficient as possible and be able to deal with tricky foxes then technology will certainly help. As Bumpy says all the technology and no fieldcraft will still lead to issues. I know for a fact that if I stuck to lamp and hand calling I would not have dealt with as many problem foxes as I had. Even with NV and digital callers there is a lot of hours and patience still involved. 

We are all welcome to our opinions of course. 

[Gerry78]

Posted on this debate that i wanted to get back into foxing so asked forum advice on does anyone still just USE Lamps well got a call from couple of fellas who fox regulatory went out with them for a fox We got to the fields they had thermal/ night vision and all sorts mounted to there rifles none of the 2 of them were carrying a lamp as we started calling i stood there in the dark like a sore thumb AS the 2 of them were looking through there night vision a fox approached apparently then ran into the hedges i say Apparently because i was standing in the dark bored and did not see anything When i used to fox with my own rifle i went out with these lads with lamps it was exciting we scanned the field for foxes if any were spotted the lamp was flicked off we got setup for the shot then the lamp was flicked on and the shot taken if safe it was exciting The other night i personally found it Boring with the night vision /thermal NOW im not saying NV ETC dosent work because i know it does i just think we have lost a bit of fieldcraft in the countryside depending to much on technology Just my thoughts

[WelshMike]

On 12/22/2017 at 10:50, Gerry78 said:

Posted on this debate that i wanted to get back into foxing so asked forum advice on does anyone still just USE Lamps well got a call from couple of fellas who fox regulatory went out with them for a fox We got to the fields they had thermal/ night vision and all sorts mounted to there rifles none of the 2 of them were carrying a lamp as we started calling i stood there in the dark like a sore thumb AS the 2 of them were looking through there night vision a fox approached apparently then ran into the hedges i say Apparently because i was standing in the dark bored and did not see anything When i used to fox with my own rifle i went out with these lads with lamps it was exciting we scanned the field for foxes if any were spotted the lamp was flicked off we got setup for the shot then the lamp was flicked on and the shot taken if safe it was exciting The other night i personally found it Boring with the night vision /thermal NOW im not saying NV ETC dosent work because i know it does i just think we have lost a bit of fieldcraft in the countryside depending to much on technology Just my thoughts

A lot of good points and agree that using NV/Thermal as a group activity is only good if everyone involved can see what is going on. Where technology comes into its own is putting the advantage firmly in the hands of the shooter as there is a balance between efficiency and enjoyment. If I enjoy myself and shoot hardly any foxes the farmers tend to be a little annoyed and look for somebody else. NV gives me a significant advantage and after all it is pest control. Despite all the kit if you are clumsy, noisy and have no fieldcraft skills you will not have good results.

Good to have different views as it would be a boring old place without healthy debate.  

[oowee]

In my case i shoot with a mate. The spotter uses a thermal and the rifleman shoots with NV. The rifleman can see what the spotter is looking if they want as the spotter picture links directly to a phone via blue tooth. In our case the spotter describes what the fox is doing so the shooter can prepare for the shot and may well line up the shooting sticks for the shot. The Thermal and NV brings its own challenges. As Mike says none of it will work if all of the other elements of fieldcraft are not in place, unless you get lucky of course 

[WelshMike]

12 hours ago, oowee said:

In my case i shoot with a mate. The spotter uses a thermal and the rifleman shoots with NV. The rifleman can see what the spotter is looking if they want as the spotter picture links directly to a phone via blue tooth. In our case the spotter describes what the fox is doing so the shooter can prepare for the shot and may well line up the shooting sticks for the shot. The Thermal and NV brings its own challenges. As Mike says none of it will work if all of the other elements of fieldcraft are not in place, unless you get lucky of course 

Not all of us have mates  

Edited January 11, 2018 by WelshMike

[mel b3]

1 hour ago, WelshMike said:

Not all of us have mates  

I'll be your friend ?❤.

I'm sorry , I've just noticed that you're Welsh and changed my mind ?.

 

You're right though Mike, it's not always easy to get a shooting partner at night , everyone wants to tag along for a few walked up pheasants, or a red letter day on the stubbles, but it's not so easy to get a shooting mate on a dark and windy night in January. ?.

[WelshMike]

32 minutes ago, mel b3 said:

I'll be your friend ?❤.

I'm sorry , I've just noticed that you're Welsh and changed my mind ?.

 

You're right though Mike, it's not always easy to get a shooting partner at night , everyone wants to tag along for a few walked up pheasants, or a red letter day on the stubbles, but it's not so easy to get a shooting mate on a dark and windy night in January. ?.

 thanks mate. It dosent help that I am an awkward so and so...The advantage is no one ever sees me miss  kind of like the tree in a wood falling over when nobody is about analogy....If the fox runs away when a shot is taken and nobody else sees and hears it did you miss ? 

[mel b3]

6 hours ago, WelshMike said:

 thanks mate. It dosent help that I am an awkward so and so...The advantage is no one ever sees me miss  kind of like the tree in a wood falling over when nobody is about analogy....If the fox runs away when a shot is taken and nobody else sees and hears it did you miss ? 

a man after my own heart , i never missed a single fox while i was shooting alone , honest lol.

i must confess that im getting to be a bit of a miserable old scrote myself . over the last few years , ive found that i prefer to shoot alone.

[clakk]

2 minutes ago, mel b3 said:

a man after my own heart , i never missed a single fox while i was shooting alone , honest lol.

i must confess that im getting to be a bit of a miserable old scrote myself . over the last few years , ive found that i prefer to shoot alone.

+1 Mel only me to blame if it doesnt happen or goes wrong .So d,s law if i bring the wrong bolt ,forget to charge batteries or find that little present dog walkers leave us to test our wellies with 

[mel b3]

5 minutes ago, clakk said:

+1 Mel only me to blame if it doesnt happen or goes wrong .So d,s law if i bring the wrong bolt ,forget to charge batteries or find that little present dog walkers leave us to test our wellies with 

i have had that oh xxxx moment many times lol.

[bumpy22]

8 hours ago, mel b3 said:

I'll be your friend ?❤.

I'm sorry , I've just noticed that you're Welsh and changed my mind ?.

 

You're right though Mike, it's not always easy to get a shooting partner at night , everyone wants to tag along for a few walked up pheasants, or a red letter day on the stubbles, but it's not so easy to get a shooting mate on a dark and windy night in January. ?.

to be fair mel me and owwee have had the pleasure of mikes company  you would understand why he shoots alone to be fair he is a good guy and is due another night with us but we are covering a lot of sheep grazing ground at the moment and cant risk it

all joking aside and back on topic the thermal has been a huge change for me at night. it is not just the numbers we shoot but the difference people dont realise is the disturbance a lightforce 240 blitz does to all the other wildlife at night. when your out lamping. but most important to be able to watch foxes in so many different scenarios going about there work undisturbed is fantastic. we can learn so much more by watching them. when we never could with a lamp before. you will never learn much from a dead one to be fair

[WelshMike]

12 hours ago, bumpy22 said:

to be fair mel me and owwee have had the pleasure of mikes company  you would understand why he shoots alone to be fair he is a good guy and is due another night with us but we are covering a lot of sheep grazing ground at the moment and cant risk it

all joking aside and back on topic the thermal has been a huge change for me at night. it is not just the numbers we shoot but the difference people dont realise is the disturbance a lightforce 240 blitz does to all the other wildlife at night. when your out lamping. but most important to be able to watch foxes in so many different scenarios going about there work undisturbed is fantastic. we can learn so much more by watching them. when we never could with a lamp before. you will never learn much from a dead one to be fair

 thanks Ed. 

Despite not having Thermal I have spent a fair bit of time watching foxes through the NV and fully agree with Ed that you learn so much about how an animal behaves when it is not aware of your presence. Also when a fox doenst want to play ball all the tech in the world doenst help. I was out last night with caller, NV spotter and NV scoped rifle. Watched a couple of hares and had a dog fox barking at the vixen call but never saw him.