Moving to FAC

[newperson77]

Hi,

I'm new on here so hello everyone. I'm based in Scotland, I've been shooting airguns for many years but now the licensing has come in here i'm debating whether I should look at getting an FAC or shotgun certificate. This is new territory for me.

My airgun license is for target shooting and pest control. The pest control part of the license is for 12.5 acres of land I own to control pests (rabbits, wood pigeon etc). The Land is pretty isolated and surrounded with a deer fence so access is very well controlled. Its not flat so there are plenty of backstops. The airgun lacks range and I was considering a FAC air gun to extend the useful range  but after looking into it I'm not convinced the cost of the airgun for the small increase in range is worth it when you look at 22lr and 17hmr etc.

Getting the airgun license was my first experience of licensing. From what I can tell it looks easier to get a SGC than a FAC and the police are more likely to grant a FAC airgun than a .22lr for example.

Ideally I think a .22lr would be the best solution for what I need but I didn't know how likely that was to get granted.

What do you think is the best approach?

Thanks,

 

Mark

 

 

[Wb123]

Apply for both!

 

I would have thought you could put together a case for a 22lr or hmr, plus a slightly more powerful airgun, and get a shotgun for the pigeons on the wing if you wanted.

 

 

Edited December 1, 2017 by Wb123

[Zetter]

Hi Mark

The critical difference between a SGC and a FAC is for the SGC you dont have to show good reason i.e. you have the right to have a SGC as long as there is no good reason to prevent you having one (i.e. medical conditions, previous convictions ect).

For an FAC you need good reason this being commonly target shooting (for which you need to be a member of an approved club), Pest control over land you have permission to shoot over  (in England normally for an initial grant the land needs to be cleared by the local police for the calibre of rifle you are shooting but in Scotland I think its a bit different due to right to roam laws but no doubt someone from there can clarify) or Deer stalking.

I would as above bung in for both. If the grounds suitable with decent backstop you should be ok with .22lr or .17HMR. They may want to inspect the ground and ask you about shooting positions ect but I have known rimfire been granted on big back gardens.  SGC though crack on unless they have a good reson for not granting you should get that easily. 

 

[Ultrastu]

Again I would agree .it cost very little more  to apply for both sgc  and fac than just one .

Considering your land .

I'd put in for either a .22lr . (Good back stops required ) nice and quiet limited to around 100 yds .For rabbits .

Or a .17hmr  (still need back stops but not as critical )loud,  range out to 200 yds at a push .rabbits and foxes .

If you do go fac air .and your after seriously extending the range of air power .you need a 45 fpe .25 cal .

Good out to around 85 yds .

Shot gun .no problem take your pick .

I'm a fan of pump action guns .that are moderated ..but That's just me . 

 

 

[fabpeter]

Yes, I agree with what has been said! I have a 17HMR for shooting overland and on application I put in for a sound moderator for it.................you REALLY could do with one! LOL.

A good justification for the 17HMR is the fact that it's a more frangible round and therefore reduces ricochets.

Good luck, I cant see any problems!

Peter.

[old man]

29 minutes ago, Ultrastu said:

Again I would agree .it cost very little more  to apply for both sgc  and fac than just one .

Considering your land .

I'd put in for either a .22lr . (Good back stops required ) nice and quiet limited to around 100 yds .For rabbits .

Or a .17hmr  (still need back stops but not as critical )loud,  range out to 200 yds at a push .rabbits and foxes .

If you do go fac air .and your after seriously extending the range of air power .you need a 45 fpe .25 cal .

Good out to around 85 yds .

Shot gun .no problem take your pick .

I'm a fan of pump action guns .that are moderated ..but That's just me . 

 

 

Sorry to pull you up Stu but a lot of misinformation there for anyone.

Backstops are the first and last absolute requirement in all cases.

[Walker570]

Ok, my suggestion is to put in for a 17HMR. The calibre will handle any pests on the ground up to a close range fox. Never say never but the HMR is the least likely to go winging off into the wild blue yonder. Take note of the entire area, condition of soil (is it stony), safe shot angles and high points you can shoot from, in addition maybe suggest you will be putting up a high seat or maybe two to increase the downward angle of shots. Also check out any public footpaths nearby and , yes, draw the investigating officers attention to these and say that you would not shoot in that direction.  All of this helps to prove that you are a safe, aware shooter.  Point out that your choice of 17HMR was based on the fact that it is a frangible bullet, less likely to bounce BUT you are aware even with that calibre safe shots must be taken at all times.

I prepared such an application for a friend for some ground that I had shot over for twenty years but they had refused for him. We built a case, pointing out that the investigating officer had not walked the ground and had only visited the farm house. We won the case and got my friend his deer rifle.

[Ultrastu]

23 minutes ago, old man said:

Sorry to pull you up Stu but a lot of misinformation there for anyone.

Backstops are the first and last absolute requirement in all cases.

What exactly are you pulling me up on ? 

What miss infomation do you think I've given? 

[Walker570]

think it was the ..."not as critical" comment Stu.   As a go between can I say I think your both right

 

There wasn't a LOT of misinformation from what I read.

Edited December 1, 2017 by Walker570

[old man]

4 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

think it was the ..."not as critical" comment Stu.   As a go between can I say I think your both right

 

There wasn't a LOT of misinformation from what I read.

Correct.

My thought was of the problem this could cause to anyone less aware.

From personal experience all calibers can ricochet unexpectedly.

[Guest]

A lot of good information here but your permission will dictate what to go for. I would suggest the old faithful 22LR to start with. It's windy in Scotland isn't it? The 22LR will be the most forgiving and easiest move from air rifle.

[newperson77]

Thanks everyone for the insight, this is really helpful.

[Dave-G]

Its worth noting that the supersonic crack of a 17HMR is harder for quarry to pinpoint the source of than a subsonic round. I have had many circumstances where more than one shot can be taken without bunnies scarpering. Here is one such occasion: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSZLjiW4Rk0

 

[Walker570]

As above. Multiple chances then shoot the furthest one first and often they will run towards your position. My record is five foxes, first at approx. 120yrds the last at 20yrds,  vixen and four well grown cubs, witnessed. That was with moderated 17 Remington ...souind not too dissimilar to the 17HMR.   The THUNK!!! of a 22RF round arriving invariable puts everything down.

[Zetter]

Must admit I after getting rid of my HMR when I got a .17 hornet and getting another HMR for one of my perms that isn't cleared for the Hornet. .22lr is a great round and I will always have one but its unforgiving on range estimation at night and the thwach of the bullet hitting is loud at night 

[Ultrastu]

1 hour ago, Walker570 said:

As above. Multiple chances then shoot the furthest one first and often they will run towards your position. My record is five foxes, first at approx. 120yrds the last at 20yrds,  vixen and four well grown cubs, witnessed. That was with moderated 17 Remington ...souind not too dissimilar to the 17HMR.   The THUNK!!! of a 22RF round arriving invariable puts everything down.

Cheers walker .

I 've also found that if you can identify the alpha male in a group of quarry .say rabbits or fox .and take him first .then the females and kids tend to stop for a few seconds trying to figure out why the boss hasn't run .This can give you a few extra  shots on the rest .

[vampire]

5 hours ago, Ultrastu said:

Again I would agree .it cost very little more  to apply for both sgc  and fac than just one .

Considering your land .

I'd put in for either a .22lr . (Good back stops required ) nice and quiet limited to around 100 yds .For rabbits .

Or a .17hmr  (still need back stops but not as critical )loud,  range out to 200 yds at a push .rabbits and foxes .

 

 

 

Agree entirely,back stop needed for 17hmr and critical for .22lr.

Stopped using my .22lr in favour of .17hmr because of this,just can't except the risk.

[Guest]

True and it is fair to say that the 17mhr is safer than a 22lr. However, I still use the 22lr over the 17hmr because of the noise factor. We've already had problems of Jo Public claiming "shots were fired over our heads in the trees" when they were no where near! The hmr sound carries and echoes all over the place, which is fine if you are in the middle of nowhere, but if your permission is anyway near houses or footpaths then forget it.

[walshie]

Can't beat a 22lr as your first "proper" gun. As above, backstops are crucial regardless of calibre. 

[bruno22rf]

Interesting fact Ultrastu - the "Alpha" male is more often a female in a Rabbit Warren.

[serrac]

On 01/12/2017 at 15:44, Zetter said:

"The critical difference between a SGC and a FAC is for the SGC you dont have to show good reason i.e. you have the right to have a SGC as long as there is no good reason to prevent you having one (i.e. medical conditions, previous convictions ect)."

I wonder if Police Scotland have their own view on "you don't have to show good reason" as they do on "no response from doctor = assume no concerns"
I had my FEO interview for my SGC the other day.
"Where do you plan to shoot?"
"I have permission on a farm"
"how often do you shoot there with your air rifle?"
"Can I have the farmer's phone number so I can check you actually have permission?"

I wasn't expecting that to be honest - not that it should be a problem, hopefully...

 

[Honey Monster]

I had similar problem. After licensing was introduced  my airgun had a meeting with angle grinder and I decidec to go for a SGC.  I think it's better to do this in stages- SGC first and  after year or two try to expand it to FAC. Where are you based exactly?

[Fisheruk]

31 minutes ago, Honey Monster said:

I had similar problem. After licensing was introduced  my airgun had a meeting with angle grinder and I decidec to go for a SGC.  I think it's better to do this in stages- SGC first and  after year or two try to expand it to FAC. Where are you based exactly?

WHAT!!!

[Honey Monster]

? Yes, I have destroyed my airgun. It was nothing special  and I didn't want to give it to the police so I cut it into pieces. It was old  Hatsan and after licensing was introduced there was a lot of good, cheap  second-hand airguns in the market. My was worth maybe 20 quid.

[Mice!]

11 hours ago, Honey Monster said:

? Yes, I have destroyed my airgun. It was nothing special  and I didn't want to give it to the police so I cut it into pieces. It was old  Hatsan and after licensing was introduced there was a lot of good, cheap  second-hand airguns in the market. My was worth maybe 20 quid.

You said of said it was just an AA prosport and listened for the scream!!

then posted the bits to whoever dreamt up the idea with a note saying look what you made me do