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How Should I feel....?


Sprucey
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I will keep this simple and honest.

Not looking to name and shame.

Just want to know how others would feel, as I don't usually shoot driven game (It's a real treat for me).

I attended our 2nd day at a driven shoot saturday, we have booked 3 days at this shoot all 150 bird days.

Our first day went ok, with a bag of 103.... Alot of holding back due to the fact the guns thought we were on  a 100 bird day. So... we thought room for improvement next time.

Well we had our 2nd day saturday, we were all excited knowing it was going to be better than the first due to the confusion last time.

Well put it this way, some guns had only a dozen shots all day. We completed 8 drives and shot through. Some drives put out only 2 birds. The Bag total for the day was just 88! 

hats off to the beaters, they put the effort in to find the birds. But it got me thinking. I doubt I saw 150 birds all day.... Where do we stand on this? as clearly the bag of 150 was never going to be reached.

What are your thoughts? 

(We are booked for a day in January too.... Hmmmmm)

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Why did you think it was a hundred bird day the first day surly it was booked as 3x150 bird days? Have a word with the keeper if he's any good he will know he has not got the birds and refund you.

im seeing lots of days advertised with an estimated bag of say 100-150 and charging 150 bird price, so if your nearer the hundred mark you are well out of pocket.

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The first day I was aware..... But the rest of the team wasn't hence the holding back. I had a very good day tho as I shared a peg. 

But Saturday was just a joke really and I had a full gun too. 

Not being in the game long, I am still coming to terms with what is accepted. 

I feel a refund is in order really, and I doubt he will manage a 150 bird day in January too.

 

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Hi 

sorry to hear about your day 

first all this should be sorted out before you go (team captain) 

number of Guns 

cost of lunch / loaders / tips / ect 

 

agree the day plus or minus 10% 

shot count kill to cartridge ratio 

cost of birds / overages 

bad weather /cancellation / insurance 

Should all be done on paper when you pay your deposit 

its a business arrangement treat it like that  

remember you’re paying for the opportunity to shoot the birds if you can’t hit them it’s not the shoots fault 

mall the best 

of 

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Thanks, Yes totally understand that we pay for the opportunity to shoot the birds... 

But we couldn't have shot 150 even if we tried. 

The host put on 2 extra drives to try and find birds which didn't work either.

Ohhh forgot to mention, that is with 2 duck drives too.... and we all know what they are like ;) (Bag filler)

Should we be getting in touch with the shoot captain or not?

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19 minutes ago, matone said:

So many unknowms that its hard to comment but if all was as you say ,I wouldn`t be returning in January!!! You`ll need to see almost double the birds to shoot 150 and that sounds unlikely ......

 

Agreed, I wouldn't be rushing back but it all depends what arrangement was in place before the day(s). For example were they sold as Pheasant/partridge days and then the ducks were introduced as an add on?

Have you spoken to other guns and if so what do they think?

Was/is there anything in writing?

What was the general feel at the end of the days and how did the host treat you? Was he apologetic, does he already know you are disgruntled..

 

Speak to them either individually or collectively, what's the worst that could happen? 

I hope you get it sorted.

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1 hour ago, Old farrier said:

Hi 

sorry to hear about your day 

first all this should be sorted out before you go (team captain) 

number of Guns 

cost of lunch / loaders / tips / ect 

 

agree the day plus or minus 10% 

shot count kill to cartridge ratio 

cost of birds / overages 

bad weather /cancellation / insurance 

Should all be done on paper when you pay your deposit 

its a business arrangement treat it like that  

remember you’re paying for the opportunity to shoot the birds if you can’t hit them it’s not the shoots fault 

mall the best 

of 

what he said .or you will get a promise of a day in january or next season that never appears .there rogues in every business these just dress in tweed

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This is why I like to get everything in writing beforehand, then everyone knows where they stand.

A shoot I went on last year didn't hit the bag and the organiser refunded some money on the day, which was kind as we knew he had tried everything to make the bag.

We are returning this year and he has promised us a good day, which I am sure it will be.

Reputation and word of mouth counts for a lot in the shoot business.

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Going by our shoot , on a 150 bird day on a reasonably average type shoot you would expect to fire in the region of 450 shots which would make the killing ratio 1 in 3 , we would allow 10% above or below .

We have some teams come who don't want any duck drives , some who wont shoot Woodcock and others who wont shoot at any pigeons because at the end of the day they are paying good money to shoot game and the shots are counted on whatever they shoot at , we also have two people clicking the shots and the final number is the number between the two clickers.

Your last days bag of 88 is well short of the intended bag and if you recon you didn't have sufficient shooting or there wasn't enough birds to achieve the bag then I would be asking some serious questions before I took the next day in January , GOOD LUCK on the outcome .  

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4 hours ago, Sprucey said:

I will keep this simple and honest.

Not looking to name and shame.

Just want to know how others would feel, as I don't usually shoot driven game (It's a real treat for me).

I attended our 2nd day at a driven shoot saturday, we have booked 3 days at this shoot all 150 bird days.

Our first day went ok, with a bag of 103.... Alot of holding back due to the fact the guns thought we were on  a 100 bird day. So... we thought room for improvement next time.

Well we had our 2nd day saturday, we were all excited knowing it was going to be better than the first due to the confusion last time.

Well put it this way, some guns had only a dozen shots all day. We completed 8 drives and shot through. Some drives put out only 2 birds. The Bag total for the day was just 88! 

hats off to the beaters, they put the effort in to find the birds. But it got me thinking. I doubt I saw 150 birds all day.... Where do we stand on this? as clearly the bag of 150 was never going to be reached.

What are your thoughts? 

(We are booked for a day in January too.... Hmmmmm)

You say the guns were holding back? so could you have killed 150+ on the first day? how many guns?

Edited by old'un
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Old'un,

Yes we could have shot a lot more.. I was fine and shooting away. But at the end of the day a number of guns were unaware that it was a 150 bird day. and they 'Held out' quite a bit during the day in fear of going over etc. there were 10 guns. 

 

I'm meeting up with the team in a few days and we shall have a good chat and see what people want to do. 

If I were in a stage of life that I could throw money into the wind it would not bother me, but being only in my twenties with a new house etc... times are hard. But I love my shooting. 

Edited by Sprucey
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6 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Sorry but it sounds as if there was a poor briefing from the Shoot Captain, perhaps he should be accepting much of the criticism.

What's the shoot captain's job please? He is one of the guns?

 

If the guns intentionally didn't shoot enough birds on the first day, that is not the fault of the shoot. If I was shooting I would have asked many times how many we were there to shoot. 

 

Considering the bag from the 2 days should now be nearing 300 birds (+/- 10% is it?), if the guns hadn't held back on the first day what would you expect the bag to be roughly? 

Would it have been possible to shoot the 150 + say 10% on the first day? 

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There is some good advice already esp from OF.

 

I would agree on the 1st day possibly the shoot captain could be slightly to blame for not briefing all the guns on the size of the day (fair play to u all for holding back thou, often many teams don't and finished by lunch or paying overages)

 

It sounds like the keepers/shoot organiser must realise his day/bag has fell short when he has given u 2 extra drives.

Many shoots will do a rough cartridge count althou in my area not strictly adhered too, more in case there is any complaints about lack of birds.

Really the ratio should be around 3/1 althou possibly higher if higher birds

 

U definitely need to have a talk with all the guns to see wot opinions are.

For me a lot wot depend on the shoot itself, does it come with a decent long standing reputation? Is it well established? Have u shoot there before?

Even the best shoots/keepers can have bad days or even bad seasons, i'd say it does sound worrying the lack of birds when ur only in end Nov (but many shoots are really struggling this year to hold birds)

If its a decent shoot with a decent shooting tenant/keeper/agent he should be offering u something (even an extra day as ur almost 150 birds short of where u should be) even if it is for next season.

The mark of a good shoot is how they come back from it and make it good

Most keepers I know if they had a returning party who had a disappointing day last time out would be pulling out all the stops for them the mext time to give them a cracking day

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2 a week isn't neccessaryily?sp a lot, it all depends on the area, amount of drives and amount of birds put down.

If it can do 2/3 days back to back shooting doing different drives 2 is not a lot, if he only has enough for 1 day then 2 every week does become quite a lot

 

Do u know if the other guns getting there bags?

It's easy to critise and moan if u don't get ur bag, but it really depends on the reasons behind it, just having an unusually bad day/season or never put enough birds down in 1st place,

There still wild and even released birds can wander off or die unexpectedly, so even on a bought day there will be no absolute guarantee's (altou u night have a chance of a refund)

 

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If, as you say, they are shooting 2 days a week, that equates to an expected bag of 300 per week. With say 6 weeks of the season left, that means a future expected bag of in excess of 2000 birds. I would therefore expect to see in excess of 3000 birds on the ground.

If as you say, you didn't see a 150 birds all day, then I would be speaking to the shoot requesting a refund and once that was agreed I would cancel the january day. 

They are without doubt a bunch of chancers. Any shoot worth its salt would have sorted some compensation at the end of your day.

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  • 4 weeks later...
46 minutes ago, Sprucey said:

Well all sorted at last, We are recieving a 50% refund and tomorrow will be done at half price too. Can't complain at that really. 

A good result of sorts, shame you had to endure a poorly run day and the poor communication that preceded and followed.

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