blankmag Posted December 13, 2017 Report Share Posted December 13, 2017 advice -- cant find much on this gun its been restocked (not by purdey ) and refurbished its got its original splinter forend but now fitted with a beavertail forend 30 in barrels . its a grade d from purdey its a single trigger (which i like ) what your thoughts . guess its a low grade would i be better looking at a better grade from another maker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRDS Posted December 13, 2017 Report Share Posted December 13, 2017 Strange question. If you like it and it fits you and it's at a good price buy it. If it's a Pudey the engineering DNA will hardly be poor, although I have to say I have never seen a Purdey Boxlock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted December 13, 2017 Report Share Posted December 13, 2017 Single trigger guns can be problematic and expensive to fix. Purdy are known to be complicated actions. As in everything condition is king, it being restocked and new forend don’t bode well to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psycho Posted December 14, 2017 Report Share Posted December 14, 2017 (edited) it comes with the origional front as well also the barrals are not sleeved .quite rare to see a boxlock purdey..as not sleeved balance should be sweet ..front horrable origional may be better make sure the barrals have enough thickness left https://www.guntrader.uk/guns/shotguns/purdey-james/side-by-side/12-gauge/171207101132002 Read below as to what to do... Edited December 14, 2017 by psycho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted December 14, 2017 Report Share Posted December 14, 2017 Got to ask yourself , are you paying for the gun or the name. As said above, if it is in good order and feels good, then buy it. Are you buying it to use or as in investment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Boggy Posted December 14, 2017 Report Share Posted December 14, 2017 As said, if the gun fits and you like it, then go for it. If however, you are getting it as an investment, I would be inclined to check with Purdey giving them the serial number to see whether it is a genuine Purdey as often spurious names were inscribed on guns in order to deceive. Not saying this is the case. Also as already mentioned, single triggers on older side by sides were notoriously problematic and difficult to regulate, but if it is a Purdey, then I would expect a single trigger by them not to be a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin55 Posted December 14, 2017 Report Share Posted December 14, 2017 The serial number dates it to 1901-3 per my Nigel Brown Diggory Hadoke's books on boxlocks shows a few Purdeys and says that a lot of 'C' grade were made between 1880 and WW1. On page 91 there's a photo of a "D Quality' non-ejector from 1891 As said wall thickness (and proof) measurements are crucial; auctions mention 'below recommended minimum' if less than 20 thou and some good gunshops (i was looking at Devizes online yesterday) say that they will mention it if below 25 thou It is an ugly forend on it Good luck with your choice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted December 14, 2017 Report Share Posted December 14, 2017 As has been said above, single triggers on old English guns can be VERY bad news. There are no 'standard' ones, all are hand built to many different designs. After 100 years of wear and tear, plus possibly the attentions of dubious 'gunsmiths' they can be very expensive indeed to get right as parts often have to be adapted or specially made. That alone would put me off. Many London supplied boxlocks with prestigious London names were actually made in Birmingham by the 'trade' and are usually good quality as the Birmingham trade knew their stuff - but they are still basically Birmingham guns. I'm not sure if Purdey's did this, but Joseph Lang, Henry Atkin, Holland & Holland all had some if not all of their boxlocks built in Birmingham There are some great Birmingham boxlocks around, but play safe on the single trigger unless you are prepared to take a risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlesP Posted December 14, 2017 Report Share Posted December 14, 2017 Purdey's did indeed get boxlocks from the Birmingham Trade. Then they finished the gun themselves, and that most probably included stocking it. The one on sale is restocked, has an absolute carbuncle of a beavertail, it's had a "Birmingham Bloom" wire brushing and blueing tart-up to hide surface corrosion and distress on the action, it has the single trigger with all the associated risks highlighted by John fromUK, and another poster above has mentioned the state of proof (how much metal is left in the bores until it's "out of proof" and indeed what was the last proof measurement) and of course the wall thickness question. A perusal of Holt's past sales for examples shows that this one is way over-priced! One to walk away from with big strides in my view... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted December 14, 2017 Report Share Posted December 14, 2017 I understand some prestigious London gunmakers bought in boxlocks from the Birmingham trade, such as Wembley and Scott, then finished them themselves and put their own name on them.....I believe H&H did this?.............I was also told most Churchill BL guns were made by A A Brown in Brum? Rather than spend the money on a gun bearing a top name with dubious/unknown origins......better maybe, to spend the money on a handmade upper end 20's 30's 40's or 50's Birmingham Boxlock Ejector by, for example Westley or Powell? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted December 14, 2017 Report Share Posted December 14, 2017 45 minutes ago, CharlesP said: Purdey's did indeed get boxlocks from the Birmingham Trade. Then they finished the gun themselves, and that most probably included stocking it. The one on sale is restocked, has an absolute carbuncle of a beavertail, it's had a "Birmingham Bloom" wire brushing and blueing tart-up to hide surface corrosion and distress on the action, it has the single trigger with all the associated risks highlighted by John fromUK, and another poster above has mentioned the state of proof (how much metal is left in the bores until it's "out of proof" and indeed what was the last proof measurement) and of course the wall thickness question. A perusal of Holt's past sales for examples shows that this one is way over-priced! One to walk away from with big strides in my view... This ^^^^^^^^^^ take the hint ? mall the best of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted December 14, 2017 Report Share Posted December 14, 2017 49 minutes ago, panoma1 said: I understand some prestigious London gunmakers bought in boxlocks from the Birmingham trade, such as Wembley and Scott, then finished them themselves and put their own name on them.....I believe H&H did this?.............I was also told most Churchill BL guns were made by A A Brown in Brum? Rather than spend the money on a gun bearing a top name with dubious/unknown origins......better maybe, to spend the money on a handmade upper end 20's 30's 40's or 50's Birmingham Boxlock Ejector by, for example Westley or Powell? Agreed. I think I'm right in saying Holland and Holland owned a Birmingham maker (W & C Scott) or at least both 'names' were under the same ownership for a period up to as recently as the 1980s - and made a range of boxlocks named after great estates (Chatsworth, Bowood etc.). They were well made, but not made by H&H in London. AA Brown made for H&H - and they are beautifully made as well. Westley Richards, and no doubt others made for the trade. Most if not all Dickson boxlocks were Birmingham made. I don't know if Powell ever made for the trade. Birmingham made boxlocks under their own names are just as well made, and there are a huge variety of names from which to choose, plus the vast majority of provincial 'named' guns were also made in Birmingham. In reality, an English (or Scottish) boxlock made other than in Birmingham is quite a rarity! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old'un Posted December 14, 2017 Report Share Posted December 14, 2017 1 hour ago, CharlesP said: Purdey's did indeed get boxlocks from the Birmingham Trade. Then they finished the gun themselves, and that most probably included stocking it. The one on sale is restocked, has an absolute carbuncle of a beavertail, it's had a "Birmingham Bloom" wire brushing and blueing tart-up to hide surface corrosion and distress on the action, it has the single trigger with all the associated risks highlighted by John fromUK, and another poster above has mentioned the state of proof (how much metal is left in the bores until it's "out of proof" and indeed what was the last proof measurement) and of course the wall thickness question. A perusal of Holt's past sales for examples shows that this one is way over-priced! One to walk away from with big strides in my view... A mate of mine who was a gunsmith and stocker (now retired) did a lot of work for Purdey and others, he told me most gunsmiths will not touch old English single trigger guns as they are a pain to balance and bloody expensive to repair. The wood used to restock looks very poor quality, it has no figure and as been made to look older than it really is, more than likely been done by an amateur, and also, as been said, it could be a fake. Agreed one to walk away from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunman Posted December 14, 2017 Report Share Posted December 14, 2017 Run of the mill Birmingham boxlock retailed by Purdey notice name on barrel only not on action . No matter what you have read in a book* it left Birmingham fully formed and finished . I would guess at 1900/1910 , proof marks will tell .Looks to be in less than average condition and with the restocking I make it £3000 over priced . * in my younger days I worked on the building of many guns bearing other makers names , so I think I know a little more than some . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blankmag Posted December 14, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2017 THANKS FOR ALL YOUR REPLYS AND I HAVE TAKEN THE ADVICE GIVEN BY " CHARLES P " AND PLENTY OF OTHERS AND WILL LOOK FOR A S/S WITH DOUBLE TRIGGERS AS A MUST !!! CHEERS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fil Posted December 26, 2017 Report Share Posted December 26, 2017 Holland and Holland did own WC Scott in Tame Road. That is where their box locks were made. Definitely worth buying if you can get one at a good price. Well made. The Purdey ones I have seen were Birmingham but in my opinion not as good as the H&H boxlocks. Or the WC Scott Boxlocks. I personally would rather a Bowwood or a Cavalier. Or a Northwood if I could find one. But that is just my personal taste from a gunmaking point of view. I feel you are paying for a name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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