Estimated for gun repair

[old'un]

On 1/10/2018 at 20:02, RockySpears said:

  Now just to confuse things, I have recently acquired a "Lancer" O/U and it does exactly this.  Each barrel fires, but the safety interjects itself every time.  Push safety forward again, second barrel fires.  Keeping the safety forward does not work, you must pull it back and push forward again (dry-firing snap-caps).

 I tried this evening to have a look myself, but, unlike my Winchester Pump,  which I can strip down, I cannot seem to do more than break it into 3 bits, forend, barrels and stock.  I did not spend a fortune, but I thought I would get some use out of it for social shooting.

  Any ideas on getting inside?  I can at least clean up inside if it is "swarf" or such.  There are no screws or or pins visible to have a go at,

Thanks, and apologies if this is hijacking the thread,

RS

You say the safety catch returns to the safe position when the gun is live fired, this will be a weak or none existent safety catch spring,

 

As regards dry firing (snap caps) there is no recoil to set the gun for the firing of the next barrel, by pushing the safety catch on and off this resets it to fire the next barrel.

 

You can also test the gun when dry firing, cock the gun and push the safety catch forward and put some sellotape over it to lock it in place, fire the gun, then bang the buttplate on the floor or give it a good bag with your hand, then try pulling the trigger and see if the second barrel fire.

[RockySpears]

 

Firstly, apologies for my total lack of correct terminology,  I know the words, but not yet which is what.

  The gun fires for real (not just dry-fire)  Dry-firing get a click both times, just the safety get re-applied between shots.

The block under the safety (inertia block?) engages the sears? fine, and the barrel selector switch, mounted on top of the safety, changes which sear? is selected first.

My thought was to dry-fire without the stock, but with the barrels, and see what might be pushing the safety off, my guess is that it is the long bar from the safety that goes into the housing containing the firing pins.

  Question:  Will dry-firing without the stock on be an issue?  Springs and things are not going to ping off because the stock is not there to hold them in, are they?

"Check the safe selector is positive so that clicks firmly from one side to the other so the block engages on both sears   and that it is not loose" - actually it just slides back and forth, there is no positive "click" or lock when moving the safety forward (off).

Will look more tonight when I get home,

Thanks,

RS

[RockySpears]

37 minutes ago, old'un said:

As regards dry firing (snap caps) there is no recoil to set the gun for the firing of the next barrel, by pushing the safety catch on and off this resets it to fire the next barrel.

  Which bit gets reset by the recoil?  I did not realise there was any involvement of recoil?  Would it be the "inertia block"? under the safety switch? (the name fits this description).

I could maybe do this by hand if it is OK to dry-fire with the stock off,

Thanks,

RS

Edited January 12, 2018 by RockySpears

[old'un]

Can you see a safety catch spring?

Yes you can dry fire it with the stock off.

Yes the recoil (inertia) sets the gun for the firing of the next barrel, that’s why I said  sellotape the safety in the off position and bang the butt pad after firing the gun (first barrel) simulating recoil (live firing)

[RockySpears]

Gunman - " ,left hand one looks to be very compressed " it was, but I got the 2nd barrel to fire (eased the inertia block over) and both springs are relaxed

OK,

Cock, safety off,  dry-fire 1st barrel OK, safety stays off, but no 2nd barrel, bang gun on the floor, block that is lifted by trigger moves across, 2nd barrel fires.

Re-cock and everything moves to its starting position and the safety is reset (but I have read that some guns do this, so that is OK).

But this does not happen with live fire.

  Is it possible to absorb too much recoil?  The gun is a bit short for my liking, so as well as the recoil pad fitted, I had two other pads, one rubber, one leather to extend the stock.  Could I have taken out too much recoil?  Remembering back, it was intermittent, but frequent, that I had the issue (and intermittent problems are the worst).

I feel I am about to be called a bit of a numpty.  Please remember Fair Imogen's request for 2018: 

Thank you for your help.  Will try out a live test, tomorrow if possible,

 

RS

[old'un]

As it sound like the inertia system is working correctly, are you sure the safety catch is not moving back to the on position when live fired?

The inertia system only needs a small amount of recoil to work.

[haynes]

Has the gun still got the the auto safe lever in? When I removed my auto safe from my Lincoln it needed a small split pin to be put in it's place in the hole in the safety selector. Otherwise it was very loose and I would imagine on firing it Could rattle about causing the odd firing you describe.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

58 minutes ago, RockySpears said:

Gunman - " ,left hand one looks to be very compressed " it was, but I got the 2nd barrel to fire (eased the inertia block over) and both springs are relaxed

OK,

Cock, safety off,  dry-fire 1st barrel OK, safety stays off, but no 2nd barrel, bang gun on the floor, block that is lifted by trigger moves across, 2nd barrel fires.

Re-cock and everything moves to its starting position and the safety is reset (but I have read that some guns do this, so that is OK).

But this does not happen with live fire.

  Is it possible to absorb too much recoil?  The gun is a bit short for my liking, so as well as the recoil pad fitted, I had two other pads, one rubber, one leather to extend the stock.  Could I have taken out too much recoil?  Remembering back, it was intermittent, but frequent, that I had the issue (and intermittent problems are the worst).

I feel I am about to be called a bit of a numpty.  Please remember Fair Imogen's request for 2018: 

Thank you for your help.  Will try out a live test, tomorrow if possible,

 

RS

You're not a Numpty, no silly questions, only silly if you don't ask!

Silly requests are another thing completely though.

[Gunman]

Oldun , its a much earlier safe spring if you look at the photo.

Please note in a previous post I should have said barrel selector ,if this is not a positive action and locking into place when moving from one side to the other it can be a cause of trouble 

One more point some of these older guns were not happy with anything less than 1&1/16 once loads ,thats 30 gram if memory serves what loads have you been using ?

strange as it sounds stock length can be a factor

[RockySpears]

Thank you all for not thinking me an idiot.

Tomorrow I will try the " no extra padding" route as it seems my gun works fine (so long as I bang it on the floor), and there may be operator error.

Gunman - " I should have said barrel selector "  this feels very positive (from the switch side) whether It actually does its job, is another.

Thank you all,

RS

 

PS.    If my shoulder is in harms way, I may need a semi-auto 2+1, gas operated.

[RockySpears]

  Fired off 20 pairs today, no "extra padding".  Both barrels every time.

  Thank you all for the help and the learning.  I can now disassemble my gun and make a mess of it or make it work.  Looks all OK now, thank you all.

I will have my father in law make me an inch or so extra "solid" extension.  He like doing things with wood and it keeps him busy.

  As a note, the safety is put on after each cocking, the bar is still in place and all seems OK.

Thank you,

RS

[TIGHTCHOKE]

A happy outcome, it's great when we are so nice to each other!

 

[lewis88]

Don't know if it's too late but I too have an early lanber that displayed this issue whilst using reasonably light loads. Mine looks the same as yours. 

I fixed mine by stripping the action and cleaning wherever I could, my issue appeared to be the trigger would pull, however felt slightly grainy whilst resetting itself to its position.

i cleaned and cleaned mine however did not make much difference, it was only when I removed the trigger assembly cleaned it in individual pieces and rebuilt it did the creep in the trigger go away. The front pin holding the trigger assembly felt as if mine was binding before re assembly but didn't after reassembly with a little dry oil.

Hope that's a bit of help to you.