Comparison between low cost and high cost cartridges

[motty]

22 hours ago, welshwarrior said:

I'm not massively cartridge fussy but 29g 6 for most driven days I shoot wont cut it a 32g 5 is the minuim and after October I shoot that at most things going to 32/34g 4s on the high stuff. 

32 gram 4s on high birds? They don't sound like they would produce a great pattern at 50 yards plus.

[welshwarrior]

20 minutes ago, motty said:

32 gram 4s on high birds? They don't sound like they would produce a great pattern at 50 yards plus.

34s are better but the 32s 4s kill well enough. 

[wymberley]

33 minutes ago, motty said:

32 gram 4s on high birds? They don't sound like they would produce a great pattern at 50 yards plus.

Simply can't understand this. 50 yards fine. And let's put to one side the fact that several "extreme" 4s are actually closer to 3s and stay with the 4s. At the 50, why would you need 4s anyway? At 60 yards, if you can somehow come up with a 40% pattern, then to be able to kill a cock pheasant consistently is just about do-able. Anything smaller or further away then you're in the realms of pure luck. I've always wondered if the kills/cartridge ratio on some of these high bird shoots is a factor of insufficient shooting skill for the target presented or simply lack of pattern. It seems to me that the Guns can never be sure and also that anything hit is simply a matter of luck. Either that or someone's yard is a good few more inches than the 3.5 short of a metre.

[welshwarrior]

1 hour ago, wymberley said:

Simply can't understand this. 50 yards fine. And let's put to one side the fact that several "extreme" 4s are actually closer to 3s and stay with the 4s. At the 50, why would you need 4s anyway? At 60 yards, if you can somehow come up with a 40% pattern, then to be able to kill a cock pheasant consistently is just about do-able. Anything smaller or further away then you're in the realms of pure luck. I've always wondered if the kills/cartridge ratio on some of these high bird shoots is a factor of insufficient shooting skill for the target presented or simply lack of pattern. It seems to me that the Guns can never be sure and also that anything hit is simply a matter of luck. Either that or someone's yard is a good few more inches than the 3.5 short of a metre.

I apologise if my 1.8:1 average is not good enough and only a luck thing I'll try harder next season.  

[wymberley]

12 minutes ago, welshwarrior said:

I apologise if my 1.8:1 average is not good enough and only a luck thing I'll try harder next season.  

With an average like that, it must be obvious that I was not having a go at yourself but simply responding to Motty and his 50 yards plus. Ie 60 and up. With some of the heights we hear bandied about, unless someone can tell me differently, I still cannot help but think that the biggest single factor for success is pure chance.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

24 minutes ago, wymberley said:

With an average like that, it must be obvious that I was not having a go at yourself but simply responding to Motty and his 50 yards plus. Ie 60 and up. With some of the heights we hear bandied about, unless someone can tell me differently, I still cannot help but think that the biggest single factor for success is pure chance.

Really, I would put it down to hard learned skill!

[Guest stevo]

Put a clay pigeon upright on a post and go back 60 m and see how many shots it takes to break it if you can . And do the same at 75 yards  with your big 32-34 gram #4 and you would never hit it . 

Edited December 26, 2017 by stevo

[wymberley]

8 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Really, I would put it down to hard learned skill!

And to blazes with the basic laws of physics.

[motty]

8 minutes ago, stevo said:

Put a clay pigeon upright on a post and go back 60 m and see how many shots it takes to break it if you can . And do the same at 75 yards  with your big 32-34 gram #4 and you would never hit it . 

Kind of the point I was making. I would be generally interested to see patterns with a relatively small load of 4s at 55 yards.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Overthinking it all again.

Pay your money, go to the shoot, shoot the birds!

[welshwarrior]

Go on then scientifically what cartridges should I use on high birds (not extreme birds) that will make me consistent by science not luck?

By the way at the moment the more I practise the luckier I get so don't mind how expensive your cartridges are as I'll not need too practise as science will be with me 

[AYA117]

21 minutes ago, welshwarrior said:

Go on then scientifically what cartridges should I use on high birds (not extreme birds) that will make me consistent by science not luck?

By the way at the moment the more I practise the luckier I get so don't mind how expensive your cartridges are as I'll not need too practise as science will be with me 

I am sure that there is somebody on here that could scientifically prove that an 80 yard pheasant is best shot with an ounce of 9s,in the real world that most of us live in,it will not! Too many armchair shooters me thinks.That should get some replies.

[Hamster]

This is what GD has to say on the subject : 

I have seen a lot of high birds shot (and shot at) and, in my opinion, with the modern guns and cartridges available, a true 60-yard pheasant is consistently killable up to that height if you possess the necessary skill. Any higher and you are relying on luck and we need to question seriously whether luck should play any part when it comes to the humane dispatch of a living quarry. 
So often you see teams that work each other up to try to shoot birds that many more experienced shots would never address because they’re simply out of range. A fluke shot might kill the odd 70-yard hen but remember it’s a fluke – it’s not an example of what can be achieved consistently.

So if someone tells you they knock em dead consistently at 90-100 yards, they is dreaming, and if you're not knocking em dead consistently then the only other logical explanation is that you're interpreting random lucky strikes as skill. 

http://www.thefield.co.uk/shooting/shoot-pheasants-like-george-digweed-37727

 

 

Edited December 27, 2017 by Hamster

[JDog]

From my own personal experience I find that the pattern of 29 gram no. 6 runs out at 30m, or even less come to think of it.

[Guest stevo]

5 minutes ago, Hamster said:

This what GD has to say on the subject : 

I have seen a lot of high birds shot (and shot at) and, in my opinion, with the modern guns and cartridges available, a true 60-yard pheasant is consistently killable up to that height if you possess the necessary skill. Any higher and you are relying on luck and we need to question seriously whether luck should play any part when it comes to the humane dispatch of a living quarry. 
So often you see teams that work each other up to try to shoot birds that many more experienced shots would never address because they’re simply out of range. A fluke shot might kill the odd 70-yard hen but remember it’s a fluke – it’s not an example of what can be achieved consistently.

So if someone tells you they knock em dead consistently at 90-100 yards, they is dreaming, and if you're not knocking em dead consistently then the only other logical explanation is that you're interpreting random lucky strikes as skill. 

http://www.thefield.co.uk/shooting/shoot-pheasants-like-george-digweed-37727

 

 

Was it not George digweed that couple of years ago was bragging about how he can shoot 100 yard pigeons and crows , I could be wrong here but I’m pretty sure he had some videos on him doing it and one or two even got posted on here , 

don’t think he said his shots were flukes though , I do know they all got a proper slagging for it . 

[AYA117]

Is that the same George Digweed that is on the field sports channel shooting pigeons on a flight line at 70 yards plus and corvids at up to 100 yards,Oh! and the same man that holds the world record for a clay shot at well over 100 yards!!!  Wish I had that amount of luck.

[motty]

3 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Overthinking it all again.

Pay your money, go to the shoot, shoot the birds!

I think this is a slightly too simplistic view.

While I think that a 32 gm load of no.4 shot will kill pheasants at good range, it seems a strange load selection to me. The pattern will more than likely fail way before the pellet energy. A 36 gm 5 would put a lot more pellets in the air and still maintain good energy at distance.

9 minutes ago, AYA117 said:

Is that the same George Digweed that is on the field sports channel shooting pigeons on a flight line at 70 yards plus and corvids at up to 100 yards,Oh! and the same man that holds the world record for a clay shot at well over 100 yards!!!  Wish I had that amount of luck.

There is no way he was shooting corvids at 100 yards!

Edited December 26, 2017 by motty

[Guest stevo]

8 minutes ago, AYA117 said:

Is that the same George Digweed that is on the field sports channel shooting pigeons on a flight line at 70 yards plus and corvids at up to 100 yards,Oh! and the same man that holds the world record for a clay shot at well over 100 yards!!!  Wish I had that amount of luck.

Yeah that’s the fella ?

[motty]

1 hour ago, AYA117 said:

I am sure that there is somebody on here that could scientifically prove that an 80 yard pheasant is best shot with an ounce of 9s,in the real world that most of us live in,it will not! Too many armchair shooters me thinks.That should get some replies.

There may well be some armchair shooters here, but I don't think so.

[JDog]

I have said it before but much as I admire Digweed he should not have put his name on the assertion by Charlie Jacoby on Fieldsports Britain that those pigeons and corvids were 100m away when he shot them.

[Guest stevo]

18 minutes ago, JDog said:

I have said it before but much as I admire Digweed he should not have put his name on the assertion by Charlie Jacoby on Fieldsports Britain that those pigeons and corvids were 100m away when he shot them.

I know what you mean , I’ve just watched again and too be fare you got to laugh ? ,  quote GD at 4.20  ........ I will only raise my gun IF I can see the birds vitals ......  (BANG gun goes off ) . It’s like that one is 85 yards ! What a load of ******** . Bet it was 50 yard tops ...

Edited December 26, 2017 by stevo

[AYA117]

I am off pigeon shooting tomorrow,wondered about putting the decoys on the other side of the field and taking some fiocchi 3" magnum 3s that I have ,any thoughts !!!!!

[Guest stevo]

1 minute ago, AYA117 said:

I am off pigeon shooting tomorrow,wondered about putting the decoys on the other side of the field and taking some fiocchi 3" magnum 3s that I have ,any thoughts !!!!!

Hahaha ??

[Hamster]

43 minutes ago, stevo said:

Was it not George digweed that couple of years ago was bragging about how he can shoot 100 yard pigeons and crows , I could be wrong here but I’m pretty sure he had some videos on him doing it and one or two even got posted on here , 

don’t think he said his shots were flukes though , I do know they all got a proper slagging for it . 

It is true that on a certain video the narrator appears to be gloating/exaggerating about the ranges some of the birds were being shot but in fairness to GD in general he appears to put 70 yards as a workable max for pigeon which we know he tends to shoot with 34g 5's. I know I wouldn't raise my gun to a bird over 60 yards over decoys because experience has taught me patterns fail and so does the shots ability to cause instant kills. 

The article and quotes are about pheasants though which are a much bigger bird requiring multiple hits to effect an actual kill as opposed to causing the bird to scramble down out of the sky due to injury (which I believe is what actually happens and awful lot). 

Incidentally he is not the record holder for the longest clay, it's some other lucky chap, give me enough time and shells and I'll beat that record by a yard. 

[Guest stevo]

I’ve just sat and watched it and he quotes after he shoots the pigeon , that it was over the ash tree which is 85 yards ,http://www.youtube.com/embed/D5MWmbI0OIk

4 mins in have a listen to the tosh yourself 

Edited December 26, 2017 by stevo