Robertt Posted December 27, 2017 Report Share Posted December 27, 2017 60 yards is a long way. I doubt I could knock a woody off a fence post at that distance. Must be using the wrong shells. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted December 27, 2017 Report Share Posted December 27, 2017 So no clear definitive reply yet on the cartridges to improve my 4 year lucky streak! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevo Posted December 27, 2017 Report Share Posted December 27, 2017 35 minutes ago, welshwarrior said: So no clear definitive reply yet on the cartridges to improve my 4 year lucky streak! That’s the thing about luck ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennett Posted December 27, 2017 Report Share Posted December 27, 2017 Don't know if it's just me and it's probably stupid but, for me buying a couple of slabs of good cartridges is all part of driven day. I use Pigeon Power all summer and get on well with them, but enjoy using a couple of slabs of Fiocchi golden pheasant on game. Sort of like Tesco value vs Tesco extra special, same food but a bit nicer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankook1 Posted December 27, 2017 Report Share Posted December 27, 2017 22 hours ago, stevo said: I’ve just sat and watched it and he quotes after he shoots the pigeon , that it was over the ash tree which is 85 yards ,http://www.youtube.com/embed/D5MWmbI0OIk 4 mins in have a listen to the tosh yourself ye just watched it as well wish i was standing there to get a better idea of the distance but they do look a very long way off thru the lens !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonepark Posted December 27, 2017 Report Share Posted December 27, 2017 Agreeing with the point of exaggerated distances, you have to keep in mind that GD is the Lewis hamilton of shooting, he is using a high performance car, special fuel and has the skill to back it up.. GD has his gun barrels customised (so choked to give specific full/extra full patterns) with elongated chokes and elongated forcing cones and selected barrels nominal diameter. He is then shooting cartridges developed in conjunction with Gamebore to work well in his gun and give consistent patterns. Gamebore No5 diamond shot will have enough energy to kill at 65 yards on pigeons if there is enough of a pattern to have reliable strikes. On the other hand Joe blogs goes out with an off the shelf gun with short chokes and forcing cones, different barrel nominal diameters depending on which manufacturer, can use same cartridges as GD but often uses alternatives with different qualities, with less/more pressure, softer lead etc. Having everything set up to perform well together probably adds 10 to 15 yards to the pattern quality over the average set up, hence the longer shots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted December 27, 2017 Report Share Posted December 27, 2017 On 26/12/2017 at 16:11, welshwarrior said: Go on then scientifically what cartridges should I use on high birds (not extreme birds) that will make me consistent by science not luck? By the way at the moment the more I practise the luckier I get so don't mind how expensive your cartridges are as I'll not need too practise as science will be with me Now, I don't shoot many pheasants. My main shooting is on pigeons, ducks and geese, so I can only gauge what I would use from those experiences. For proper high birds, I would imagine you would not go less than 3/4 or full choke. I am also assuming high means in the realms of 60 yards. If I were using 4 shot, I would probably want to be using 40 or 42 gm of shot. To achieve an average of under 2 - 1 at 50-60 yard pheasants, you must be a pretty handy shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted December 27, 2017 Report Share Posted December 27, 2017 4 hours ago, kennett said: Don't know if it's just me and it's probably stupid but, for me buying a couple of slabs of good cartridges is all part of driven day. I use Pigeon Power all summer and get on well with them, but enjoy using a couple of slabs of Fiocchi golden pheasant on game. Sort of like Tesco value vs Tesco extra special, same food but a bit nicer! Best to avoid their turkey load though apparently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennett Posted December 27, 2017 Report Share Posted December 27, 2017 Haha apprently so, some off them can be a little off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AYA117 Posted December 27, 2017 Report Share Posted December 27, 2017 1 hour ago, Stonepark said: Agreeing with the point of exaggerated distances, you have to keep in mind that GD is the Lewis hamilton of shooting, he is using a high performance car, special fuel and has the skill to back it up.. GD has his gun barrels customised (so choked to give specific full/extra full patterns) with elongated chokes and elongated forcing cones and selected barrels nominal diameter. He is then shooting cartridges developed in conjunction with Gamebore to work well in his gun and give consistent patterns. Gamebore No5 diamond shot will have enough energy to kill at 65 yards on pigeons if there is enough of a pattern to have reliable strikes. On the other hand Joe blogs goes out with an off the shelf gun with short chokes and forcing cones, different barrel nominal diameters depending on which manufacturer, can use same cartridges as GD but often uses alternatives with different qualities, with less/more pressure, softer lead etc. Having everything set up to perform well together probably adds 10 to 15 yards to the pattern quality over the average set up, hence the longer shots. Oh! Well that explains it,Gamebore make all their top cartridges to work in George Digweeds special crafted Perazzi.So in that case we had all better go and buy a different make that is made for all guns! It's a shotgun,not a custom built rifle with hand crafted loads!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonepark Posted December 27, 2017 Report Share Posted December 27, 2017 1 hour ago, AYA117 said: Oh! Well that explains it,Gamebore make all their top cartridges to work in George Digweeds special crafted Perazzi.So in that case we had all better go and buy a different make that is made for all guns! It's a shotgun,not a custom built rifle with hand crafted loads!!!!! You are quite correct it is not a rifle, with custom micro grooving with a 1 in 12.5 twist, fluted barrel, bedded stock, custom crown, match trigger, muzzle break/moderator, sized brass, swaged 12% antimony lead bullets, with homemade lube. When it comes to pushing the performance of a shotgun, it is still a system where all the parts have to work together to get the best performance, the likes of GD or similar, have their set up tweaked until it can meet a certain performance, this results in patterns that are as consistent as possible and often denser than what you get out an off the shelf gun and cartridge set up. Not all shotguns and cartridges are made the same and therefore you can have differences in marketed similar guns and cartridges that appear identical, but result in combined variations in pattern plate differences of easily 20% and up to 40% or more. Finding the best combination is an interesting journey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savhmr Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 I think there's a lot of BS spread about about some guns and some cartridges. 90% of kill ratio is first and foremost having a nicely balanced gun fit you well, and you being well practised, and using the same cartridges most of the time. People who swap carts regularly will notice that with velocity and pattern variances in a specific gun, they'll need to re-adjust before getting their eye back in to the lead etc needed for various game/distances. I would worry less about using a 28g opposed to a 34g load and more about how a cartridge patterns in your guns, plus how practiced you are. For those who don't shoot much, you'll probably notice less difference between various makes and loads and have a much lower kill ratio than those who are well practiced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 2 hours ago, Savhmr said: I think there's a lot of BS spread about about some guns and some cartridges. 90% of kill ratio is first and foremost having a nicely balanced gun fit you well, and you being well practised, and using the same cartridges most of the time. People who swap carts regularly will notice that with velocity and pattern variances in a specific gun, they'll need to re-adjust before getting their eye back in to the lead etc needed for various game/distances. I would worry less about using a 28g opposed to a 34g load and more about how a cartridge patterns in your guns, plus how practiced you are. For those who don't shoot much, you'll probably notice less difference between various makes and loads and have a much lower kill ratio than those who are well practiced. cartridges patterning well has nothing to do with gunfit. having the same cartridges through out your life is impossible. people swap cartridges and only notice if they analyse cartridges before and after any change. same as chokes. there is a big difference between 28g and 36g, big big difference. it does matter how shells patten with specific guns / barrels. i`m betting 99% of shotgunners, grab any box and go plug away at everything. when i started i was told to throw away all chokes except 1/4. because its best. and i can tell you its rubbish, i`ve ended up way tighter. shotguns are versatile and are sposed to be used with a variety of diet, from slug, buck, steel, tungsten, tin, bismuth, other, birdshot. so limiting to a single brand / payload /shotsize is nuts. 36g loads are the original sporting load, 1450fps is not. combine the two and you have not much, probably loose half the shot before it gets anywhere near target. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AYA117 Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 I love talking about cartridges,it is the shooting worlds equivalent of talking about religion or politics ! Everyone has a view,some are based on fact and some are based on 'I read it so it must be true' those with real life experience have an argument that you cannot change.When it comes to cartridges the truth is no written word or ballistic coefficient of shot size (what ever the hell that is ) will tell you NOTHING! Take a cartridge out shooting,If you are a proficient shot ,you will know a good cartridge from a bad one!! And please ! A 1 oz load of 7 (28g for the younger amongst us) Will not drop birds consistently past 30 yards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 14 minutes ago, AYA117 said: I love talking about cartridges,it is the shooting worlds equivalent of talking about religion or politics ! Everyone has a view,some are based on fact and some are based on 'I read it so it must be true' those with real life experience have an argument that you cannot change.When it comes to cartridges the truth is no written word or ballistic coefficient of shot size (what ever the hell that is ) will tell you NOTHING! Take a cartridge out shooting,If you are a proficient shot ,you will know a good cartridge from a bad one!! And please ! A 1 oz load of 7 (28g for the younger amongst us) Will not drop birds consistently past 30 yards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AYA117 Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 thanks for the offer of the hat ! But put one on before I posted Ha HA ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 (edited) 50 minutes ago, AYA117 said: I love talking about cartridges,it is the shooting worlds equivalent of talking about religion or politics ! Everyone has a view,some are based on fact and some are based on 'I read it so it must be true' those with real life experience have an argument that you cannot change.When it comes to cartridges the truth is no written word or ballistic coefficient of shot size (what ever the hell that is ) will tell you NOTHING! Take a cartridge out shooting,If you are a proficient shot ,you will know a good cartridge from a bad one!! And please ! A 1 oz load of 7 (28g for the younger amongst us) Will not drop birds consistently past 30 yards. You're quite correct in that 1oz is more or less 28g but it will poleax pigeon and partridge size quarry at 50 yards through a bit of choke, pheasants may well need bigger shot at those sort of ranges. Edited January 2, 2018 by Hamster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, Hamster said: You're quite correct in that 1oz is more or less 28g but it will poleax pigeon and partridge size quarry at 50 yards through a bit of choke, pheasants may well need bigger shot at those sort of ranges. And is a good grouse load though I prefer a 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 1 minute ago, welshwarrior said: And is a good grouse load though I prefer a 6 Archie Coates recommended 7's for pigeon and he'd killed a few. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AYA117 Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 Mr Coates I believe used Eley Grand Prix 1 1/16 oz (30g) and liked to shoot his pigeon at 30 yards ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevo Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 I could show you hundreds and hundreds of pigeons being shot with English 7.5 and 7 all ounce loads and my trap guns , but I just can’t be bothered to dig out all the videos and post them up , however please feel free to search for them on here yourself though , thing is even though your sit and watch me actually doing , and doing very well what your saying can’t be done. I still don’t think your willing to accept it. . Im sick of saying , an ounce of English 7 is all you need Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AYA117 Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 Just a thought,Mr G.Digweed 20+ times World champion,Does not use his 28g 7 1/2 for live game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevo Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, AYA117 said: Just a thought,Mr G.Digweed 20+ times World champion,Does not use his 28g 7 1/2 for live game. That’s a rubbish come back haha ........... he’s a sponsored shooter he can’t use anything that his sponsors don’t endorse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AYA117 Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 Oh Yes of course,silly me that would be the reason........Really ? Take one of your poleaxed pigeon and measure out a true 50 yards and point your barrels at it,oh!!!!! suddenly it is 70 yards away! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevo Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 (edited) Tell you what. I packed up shooting pigeons/ crows / live game some 18 months ago after 30 + years however I’m willing to come out of retirement just one last time to give you a school day in the field. Invite me onto your shoot and I will bring my trusty English ounce of 7s and you can use what ever you want . We can have a day pigeon shooting and I’m willing to bet I will have a better shot to kill ratio than you over decoys at normal decoying ranges 20-50 yards . Just an edit to say ... if fact I reckon I will hammer you ? Up for it ? Edited January 2, 2018 by stevo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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