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Lloyd90

Cocker or Springer

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    13 minutes ago, Yellow Bear said:

    +1

    Nope - not mongrels they are all spaniel - in my youth we had spaniels, small ones were used for woodland (cockers) and large ones for foreshore (springers) - could not afford KC registered, that was for toffs.

    i didnt say mongrels, i think it was Heinz 57 (H57) hehe

    not had many problems with my cockers in the field. apart from big cuts, joints having problems, lumps from black thorns. just the run of the mill stuff. only thing is, £30 a month each now for their insurance as their KC reg. if they where Heinz dogs then it would have been £10 a month. According to the insurance companies, Heinz dogs dont get so sick. lmao. must have armour jackets to stop them getting cut up i thinks

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    I shoot over labs and springers, but my mate runs a sprocker that he bread himself and I must say he’s a cracking dog and I think that’s my next dog.

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    The general consensus in Training circles  is that springers are slightly easier to train. This is in part, down to the mental capacity of cockers, whilst physically capable to compete with springers, it’s common they lack that mental ‘toughness’. You’ll often hear the saying a cocker will question you before doing, where as a Springer just does- cockers require the handler to have more patience and in my opinion, to be a little more on the button. 

    Cockers are more exciting for me, that’s why I have those, but admittedly, I see a lot more springers that are what I’d call handleable dogs at an average to good standard than I do cockers, which seem more fashionable these days. The answer is simply to pick which you’ll prefer to live with, most gundogs are a pet the other 300 days a year...

     

     

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    Heres a scenario......

    Go to a football pitch with a springer and a cocker......

    Springer will sniff and hunt every blade of grass.......

    Cocker will look around....look are you....look back at grass and then at you with complete indignation.......

    Springers hunt for fun....

    cockers hunt with scent....

    Once you get your head around this cockers are great dogs...will retreive everything you shoot ok maybee it might drag it by the wing but it will come back....

    Cockers are great house/family dogs and require loving to get the best from they dont respond to harsh treatment....mine lift pheasant, ducks from a flight pond wood cock pigeon all with ease.......

    Ps...(get your mrs the cocker she wants....think of the brownie points)....lol

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    I will consider a sprocker when the time comes, I don’t think of them as the same sort of ‘risk’ as a mongrel, as many years ago springers and cockers were apparently in the same litter, with the bigger dogs being used to spring game and the smaller spaniels to hunt woodcock. 

    I wouldn’t consider this a mongrel as I would say crossing two totally different ‘types’. 

    We shall have to see what’s about when the time is right anyways. 

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    My choice would be the springer, they can do all that a cocker can do and more.. purly due to being that little bit larger (in most cases)  and are said to be more biddable than cockers..if like me you enjoy fowling as well as game / rough and pigeon shooting then a springer or sprocker would be great choices.

    You guessed it I have a springer who works the cover superbly, will retrieve any birds dropped and is not mad as a hatter ...as well as this she is big enough to carry geese.  canada's and greylag I have seen a few cockers try and they could not. 

    I am sure some will say that they can and it may be so ... but if they can for how far ? across a marsh and not in the water .. of course if your a keen wildfowler and pigeon shooter a Lab is the perfect choice.. but if you enjoy as I do rough shooting as well as all the above then the springer is the ideal all rounder ..

    Good Luck with whatever you choose...

    Just try to enjoy it as I am sure you will 

    ATB 

     

    Terry

    IMG_1377.jpg

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    Must admit I'm with terry above, personally I wouldn't have a cocker as a gift.

     

    Seen too many bad 1's 10-20yrs ago, truly terrible (often noise issues amongst other things) and they were breeding off them

    In recent years seen some really good well trained cockers which has altered my opinion of them but still feel they are too small nowadays (as are some modern springers)

    Yes they might manage with a large dead cock pheasant. But I've watched a couple of new pickers up who run very good cockers and seen the cockers really struggle to peg some very lively running cocks, even the shorter legs make it harder for the dog to catch them speed wise, numerous times this year I've seen the cocker quite literally right on the heels of a pheasant for 20-30m struggling to et there smaller jaws round the bird too.

    Don't get me wrong any dog would have struggled with such lively birds but the larger dogs would have found it slightly easier.

    Even the weight of a larger black/ring necked cock could be 2 or even almost 3kg which is quite a lot in releation to a small dog,  a human equivalent would be picking and carrying a 15kg  bag of dog food in our mouths.

    I just think its an awful lot to ask such a small dog, no doubt they have the heart for it but a slightly bigger dog would make it easier

     

    I know a lad that had excellent cockers that he trialled them, but he switched to springers as he mainly entered AV spaniel tests and said the cockers just couldn't compete against the springers in the FT scenerio

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    On 1/6/2018 at 21:41, Terry2016 said:

    My choice would be the springer, they can do all that a cocker can do and more.. purly due to being that little bit larger (in most cases)  and are said to be more biddable than cockers..if like me you enjoy fowling as well as game / rough and pigeon shooting then a springer or sprocker would be great choices.

    You guessed it I have a springer who works the cover superbly, will retrieve any birds dropped and is not mad as a hatter ...as well as this she is big enough to carry geese.  canada's and greylag I have seen a few cockers try and they could not. 

    I am sure some will say that they can and it may be so ... but if they can for how far ? across a marsh and not in the water .. of course if your a keen wildfowler and pigeon shooter a Lab is the perfect choice.. but if you enjoy as I do rough shooting as well as all the above then the springer is the ideal all rounder ..

    Good Luck with whatever you choose...

    Just try to enjoy it as I am sure you will 

    ATB 

     

    Terry

    IMG_1377.jpg

    That’s a very good post indeed and totaly  agree. 

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    Well for what it's worth, I am a cocker man. 

    Can fit 2 or 3 in the boot with space for other things.

    And when people say they struggle with big birds or they're not quite quick enough on runners thats rubbish. 

    And to me what sets the breed apart from the rest is their character!! 

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    For what it's worth I have a few of both and love them all but if you live in a built up area it might be worth considering (in my limited experience) that cocker tend to be a tad more reactive and noisy than Springers in a kennel but of course no issue if living inside ?

    Like I said just my experience ?

    Edited by bigbird

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    I’ve got two Cockers, and a Black Flatcoat and a Golden retriever. They are all bitches, I work in the beating line with my dogs and the Cockers are great for getting into cover that the larger dogs can’t get into ( including some Springers ) what I would say is that the Springers I come into contact with can handle the cold better than the smaller Cockers. But the Cockers have a bit more steam left towards the end of the day probably as they are lighter? They do retrieve Cock birds without any problems, both of mine are intelligent and haven’t taken much training they certainly aren’t the polished article but work well for me and are nice around the home the rest of the year.

     

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    My Springer retrieves anything and everything, to hand, without ever having had the slightest hint of training - he's done so from the day we got him as a rescue pup. He has the knack of passing gas whilst sat next to you and then walking away only to stare, accusingly, at you from the other side of the room, he brings me my slippers every evening ( if I want them or not), brings the shopping in from the car and will not settle until he has fell asleep in my lap for at least 1/2 hour every night. He will sit and watch Telly like a child but moves like a bullet if you even nudge the treats packet in the larder, leaves a mini river of water across the kitchen floor every time he drinks and blocks the Dyson with his hair practically every other day - who could ask for a better companion?

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    34 minutes ago, bruno22rf said:

    My Springer retrieves anything and everything, to hand, without ever having had the slightest hint of training - he's done so from the day we got him as a rescue pup. He has the knack of passing gas whilst sat next to you and then walking away only to stare, accusingly, at you from the other side of the room, he brings me my slippers every evening ( if I want them or not), brings the shopping in from the car and will not settle until he has fell asleep in my lap for at least 1/2 hour every night. He will sit and watch Telly like a child but moves like a bullet if you even nudge the treats packet in the larder, leaves a mini river of water across the kitchen floor every time he drinks and blocks the Dyson with his hair practically every other day - who could ask for a better companion?

    That to me sounds like the ideal companion.

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    I beat at least 4 times a week, I have springers, but I see cockers that are just as capable. I also see bad Cockers and bad Springers, it you put in the time there is no reason that a Cocker could not give you all you want. 

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    I beat at least 4 times a week, I have springers, but I see cockers that are just as capable. I also see bad Cockers and bad Springers, it you put in the time there is no reason that a Cocker could not give you all you want. 

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    7 hours ago, bruno22rf said:

    My Springer retrieves anything and everything, to hand, without ever having had the slightest hint of training - he's done so from the day we got him as a rescue pup. He has the knack of passing gas whilst sat next to you and then walking away only to stare, accusingly, at you from the other side of the room, he brings me my slippers every evening ( if I want them or not), brings the shopping in from the car and will not settle until he has fell asleep in my lap for at least 1/2 hour every night. He will sit and watch Telly like a child but moves like a bullet if you even nudge the treats packet in the larder, leaves a mini river of water across the kitchen floor every time he drinks and blocks the Dyson with his hair practically every other day - who could ask for a better companion?

    love that post............brings a big ache in my chest as i have buried all mine now................

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