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6 hours ago, Scully said:

Anyone can have their own little wild bird shoot, but pheasants are notoriously bad parents, and the amount of work involved isn’t negligible. 

It still doesn’t alter the fact that banning the raising of game birds to be used for ‘sport’ would mean the end of driven shooting in the UK, ultimately followed by the demise of shooting in the UK as a whole. 

Believe me Scully I know a bit about pheasant.

It is critical that reared birds are put to good use and are entered in to the food chain. For years and years this happened. Now it doesn't and opens up voices of ridicule.

Joe public was always pacified when he/she knew these reared birds where put to good use, so understood the situation and broadly accepted it. 

Now "we" are burning these reared birds after shooting them raises new issues that cannot be explained very easily.

Harnser is a bastion of shooting and the countryside and believe me he is a wise old bird who should be listened too.        

 

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20 hours ago, motty said:

I don't think too much blame can be put on game dealers. I think part of the problem lies with the fact that game shoots abroad are shooting more birds, so the demand for ours is less.

Agree. I think the role of a game dealer is to supply the market not to create a market. 

The movers and shakers out there in this respect are the TV celeb chefs, restaurants, and our shooting organisations who can put campaigns together through TV, the internet and social media. 

Simple end game. Get our public to appreciate and eat game birds !       

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24 minutes ago, Whitebridges said:

Believe me Scully I know a bit about pheasant.

It is critical that reared birds are put to good use and are entered in to the food chain. For years and years this happened. Now it doesn't and opens up voices of ridicule.

Joe public was always pacified when he/she knew these reared birds where put to good use, so understood the situation and broadly accepted it. 

Now "we" are burning these reared birds after shooting them raises new issues that cannot be explained very easily.

Harnser is a bastion of shooting and the countryside and believe me he is a wise old bird who should be listened too.        

 

I wasn’t doubting your knowledge of pheasants, simply pointing out that while  ‘wild’ bird shoots are to be commended, they don’t just happen, nor would they satisfy demand. 

Harnser so far has simply advocated the demise of big bag driven shooting; blinkered and  positively myopic. 

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36 minutes ago, Whitebridges said:

I not so sure about "lucky" scotslad. I think this is more about design and a strategic understanding of landscape and habitat resulting in a conscious decision to create the right environment for "wild game".

As for the rest of your post 4th paragraph down i'm disgusted. Whoever gave these "toffs" the go ahead to do this? Utter lack of respect, they should have been removed from the hill 

and used somehow. You imply the "toffs" were Englishmen. Is this correct? 

The problem isn't with the "toffs" it's with the ####(s) in Scotland that let this take place.

      

   

 

Sorry whitebridge u have got completely the wrong end of my post, it was the JMT 'conservation charity' that slaughtered the deer. Can't remember where now but JMT have form for doing this before, think they only had 1% of the local deer management groups land mass but shot 80% of the red stag cull, all shot early doors before the rut, all the neighbouring sporting estates had to cancel clients and lost a fortune. Deer were just left there to rot in the open for all the ramblers to see

But to be fair SNH, National Trust of Scotland and Rspb are equally guility of slaughtering large numbers of red's in the name of conservation

 

Absolutely no 'toff's' or English or otherwise where involved, but if they were the tabloids/press would of had a field day but as a charity nothing was mentioned.

Like I said a lot of it stems from jealousy or class envy/war

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30 minutes ago, Scully said:

I wasn’t doubting your knowledge of pheasants, simply pointing out that while  ‘wild’ bird shoots are to be commended, they don’t just happen, nor would they satisfy demand. 

Harnser so far has simply advocated the demise of big bag driven shooting; blinkered and  positively myopic. 

Scully ,your trollish diatribe is doing nothing for shooting . You obviously support big bag commercial shooting for profit . I am just a simple country man who can see the demise of shooting for all of us by allowing these shoots to continue . Yes I am a realist and these shoot for profit shoots have got to stopped ,or at least make sure that all birds go into the food chain .

harnser

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Scotslad 

Your confusing two issues , 

No one can accept birds being wasted or dumped . No right minded country people could , nor antis or general public. 

There is already a growing ill will towards fieldsports and Toffs . Fuelled by a largely anti urban based media and politicians in the central belt. 

The deer issue in Scotland is different and is a complex issue where tradition , passion and mis management have created the current issues and extremes.

Unfortunately the wider public are detached from both and believe whatever they are told by the media. 

The truth is totally different. 

Sporting Grouse estates have probably killed more deer in recent years than all conservation groups put together. But we don't talk about that ??

The same people who berate deer culls turn a blind eye to huge winter mortality where deer basically starve to death. But we don't talk about that either ??

If we aim to educate the public and get their support for fieldsports we need to tell the truth and get our own house in order in all areas including game shoots , deer management and all fieldsports.

 

 

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34 minutes ago, Fisheruk said:

I thought there were more supermarkets offering game?:hmm:

I was in Sainsbury’s shopping and noticed a pheasant which would probably have just fed the old man for £10.  You aren’t going to get many people picking up a bird that wouldn’t feed a family of 4 for £10 when they can pick up a large chicken that will for £4.  

Another thing I may not be understanding.  The birds once shot have effectively been paid for?  Is my understanding correct?  If this is so surely these surplus birds could be sold off very cheaply to supermarkets who could if they were minded to sell them for a more family friendly price?  If there really is a glut I don’t know why the shoots don’t give the birds away to schools, old people’s homes etc or am I trying to live in eutopia.  Surely it would foster goodwill amongst the general public.

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2 hours ago, Gordon R said:

I thought the person originally referred to had a legitimate point, worthy of debate.

I think it is too, I also believe it is too easy and convenient to villainise the big commercial shoots.

From my experience, albeit way more limited than many on here, a lot of smaller shoots have as much trouble getting rid of birds as the big ones and there is a hell of a lot of small shoots.  Add all those small shoot unused birds together and that also adds up to a big number.

At least the big shoots have a much bigger leverage with game dealers or other outlets, scale makes things easier in some respects.

We know from experience the shooting community are not exactly great at supporting our own if the problem is outside our immediate sphere of interest or discipline.

How many traditionalists would would throw the tacticool type shooters or maybe PSG under a bus if it preserved their type of shooting?

So perhaps there are some who might be content to see the big commercial shoots fall to stop the questioning bony finger from being pointed at them a little while longer?

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10 hours ago, Harnser said:

Scully ,your trollish diatribe is doing nothing for shooting . You obviously support big bag commercial shooting for profit . I am just a simple country man who can see the demise of shooting for all of us by allowing these shoots to continue . Yes I am a realist and these shoot for profit shoots have got to stopped ,or at least make sure that all birds go into the food chain .

harnser

Do you understand the term ‘trolling’? It is to make emotive or inflammatory comments purely for the basis of provoking a response. 

You have offered no solutions, only criticism, and added that the demise of big commercial days may not be a bad thing. When I asked ‘for whom’, you have offered no answer but repeat your mantra of being ‘just a simple countryman’. 

Commercial shooting injects much needed income into many rural backwaters and is a major boon to small market towns, where my son and daughter have in the past, been employed. Make no mistake, the demise of commercial driven shooting will see the demise of all of us UK shooters, including you simply countrymen. 

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10 hours ago, grrclark said:

I think it is too, I also believe it is too easy and convenient to villainise the big commercial shoots.

From my experience, albeit way more limited than many on here, a lot of smaller shoots have as much trouble getting rid of birds as the big ones and there is a hell of a lot of small shoots.  Add all those small shoot unused birds together and that also adds up to a big number.

At least the big shoots have a much bigger leverage with game dealers or other outlets, scale makes things easier in some respects.

We know from experience the shooting community are not exactly great at supporting our own if the problem is outside our immediate sphere of interest or discipline.

How many traditionalists would would throw the tacticool type shooters or maybe PSG under a bus if it preserved their type of shooting?

So perhaps there are some who might be content to see the big commercial shoots fall to stop the questioning bony finger from being pointed at them a little while longer?

It really has little to do with what we shooters think or about demonising big commercial shoots, it is how the antis and public react to some of the alleged unacceptable aspects of their business, that is of concern...........I personally have no desire to see any sort of shooting curtailed further......but I am also a member of the public and I can identify things that reportedly happen in one branch of shooting that may well have a damaging impact on all types of shooting? I do not wish to see big bag commercial shoots banned.....but I would like to see shoots go about their business, in a more publicly acceptable and responsible way!......Rather than just carrying on doing what they are allegedly doing, burying their heads in the sand, and hoping someone wont do it for them!

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1 hour ago, panoma1 said:

It really has little to do with what we shooters think or about demonising big commercial shoots, it is how the antis and public react to some of the alleged unacceptable aspects of their business, that is of concern...........I personally have no desire to see any sort of shooting curtailed further......but I am also a member of the public and I can identify things that reportedly happen in one branch of shooting that may well have a damaging impact on all types of shooting? I do not wish to see big bag commercial shoots banned.....but I would like to see shoots go about their business, in a more publicly acceptable and responsible way!......Rather than just carrying on doing what they are allegedly doing, burying their heads in the sand, and hoping someone wont do it for them!

I agree with the sentiment of your post, but I don't think the problem begins and ends at the door of the bigger commercially motivated shoots.

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39 minutes ago, grrclark said:

I agree with the sentiment of your post, but I don't think the problem begins and ends at the door of the bigger commercially motivated shoots.

In my opinion our problem starts with the weaknesses in our case.....I hope it doesn't end where I suspect it may!

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16 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

In my opinion our problem starts with the weaknesses in our case.....I hope it doesn't end where I suspect it may!

I wholeheartedly agree with that.

I think I am perhaps less pessimistic than many about where it may end, and I very much hope that I am on the right end of the see saw in that respect, but I don't believe that things can continue unchanged.

My gut feeling is that if legislation is to be put in place it will be done in a roundabout sort of way and not as a blunt act.

We should also perhaps be grateful that we have a number of bigger issues and much higher priorities on the table of the legislators for the foreseeable.  That potentially does give us some breathing space to get our own house in order first.

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18 hours ago, grrclark said:

I think it is too, I also believe it is too easy and convenient to villainise the big commercial shoots.

From my experience, albeit way more limited than many on here, a lot of smaller shoots have as much trouble getting rid of birds as the big ones and there is a hell of a lot of small shoots.  Add all those small shoot unused birds together and that also adds up to a big number.

At least the big shoots have a much bigger leverage with game dealers or other outlets, scale makes things easier in some respects.

We know from experience the shooting community are not exactly great at supporting our own if the problem is outside our immediate sphere of interest or discipline.

How many traditionalists would would throw the tacticool type shooters or maybe PSG under a bus if it preserved their type of shooting?

So perhaps there are some who might be content to see the big commercial shoots fall to stop the questioning bony finger from being pointed at them a little while longer?

 

That's wot I believe too.

I know of a few larger diy syndicates that really struggle to get rid of birds and have done for years, I know 1 shoot captain that gave up and that was 1 of the reasons sick of folk not taking birds.

Often if ur shooting 50-70ish birds every 2 weeks it is a lot for the same guns to use every 2 weeks, and leaves u with a a strange amount say 20-30 birds so too uch to deal with urself but not worth the time and desiel to go to a game dealer.

Unil this season big shoots have always had enough quanitiy to make it worth the journey and ean there was a we bit money in it.

 

Greenshanks wasn't meaning to confuse things, just highlight the hypocricy about the waste issue, its fine when a 'conservation' charity leaves about 8T of venision rotting for everyone to see.

Going off topic.

It will depend on the moor but not all are culling large numbers of deer (but they always extract them) the few further east I've been on have fenced the whole oor to keep deer ou and it actually works.

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Could I suggest that the solution to this issue lies with Game Dealers , Shooting Associations and Celebrity Chefs?

If Game dealers are getting birds foc then they need to be realistic in their valuation of the saleable item .

Wild Game needs to be promoted by the shooting associations and Chefs need to use it in their restaurants.

Yesterday I shot with 9 other Guns who are all shooting numerous days over the next two weeks , it is unrealistic to expect these Guns to consume possibly 12 brace in the foreseeable future , hence many do not take a brace home.

Perhaps do as I do , seek out your local Almshouses or elderly pensioners on low income and gift them oven ready birds , they are usually extremely greatful.

Could not the local Curry Houses be approached to substitute Chicken with Pheasant?

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The problem with giving away game free is that most people don’t know how to pluck and prepare fresh game . If you offered oven ready birds for free I am sure people would want them . Offer them birds in the feather and they would proberbly gag and be sick all over you .

 

harnser

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I gave this a little bit of thought today and was wondering about these  commercial shoots that we all have locally .Let us say that these shoots have 100 days per season to shoot total ,possibly shooting 35 plus days per season, we hear of huge numbers being raised to cope with the demand .

But where do they keep these birds ? Stacked in cages or Barns to be released as the demand necessitates? Or do they just keep topping up as the season progresses kept alive in confined conditions ,dosed up with antibiotics to keep away disease and then released into the food chain to unsuspecting Guns .

It is a sorry state we have now got our sport into thanks in no small part to us all , including the national associations turning a blind eye to what is really going on.

Talk about shooting ourselves in the foot.

 

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More and more on even small driven shoots up to 200 birds we are getting....and I have no intention of offending anyone....the clay shooters who fancy treating live birds as targets BUT

at the end of the day refuse to take their share of the birds shot.  Last Saturday I was given 4 brace of pheasant and accepted them and half an hour ago two brace went to a friend who doesn't shoot but who loves 'em  I had a brace of partridge at both shoots on Tuesday and Wednesday and gave them to the families where we stayed B&B, they accepted them without a hesitation. My computer Guru called and I offered him a brace but he apologised, saying his wife would not have them in the feather. I then offered him a pack if three oven ready Catton partridges and he went away like a dog with two tails. These big number shoots have got to invest as have Catton and prepare their game and sell it locally.  I'm sure there is no shortage of OAPs who will pluck, dress and pack the, for a bit of pocket money. 

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2 hours ago, Salopian said:

I gave this a little bit of thought today and was wondering about these  commercial shoots that we all have locally .Let us say that these shoots have 100 days per season to shoot total ,possibly shooting 35 plus days per season, we hear of huge numbers being raised to cope with the demand .

But where do they keep these birds ? Stacked in cages or Barns to be released as the demand necessitates? Or do they just keep topping up as the season progresses kept alive in confined conditions ,dosed up with antibiotics to keep away disease and then released into the food chain to unsuspecting Guns .

It is a sorry state we have now got our sport into thanks in no small part to us all , including the national associations turning a blind eye to what is really going on.

Talk about shooting ourselves in the foot.

 

 

I'm not sure wot to make of the above post.

If u do any amount of game shooting that's quite worrying

 

All the birds will be released sometime during the sumer (generally june to august) and within 2-3 weeks of being released are pretty much free to go where they please and its only feed/water and habitat (or good keepering) that keeps the where they should be.

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Scotslad, 

I have read your previous posts and now realise how little you actually do know about the Countryside .

For goodness sake ,get real and man up to what is really going on . 

What we are doing with driven Game shooting is disgraceful and needs to stop immediately .

 

 

' All the birds will be released June to August and good keepering will keep them where they should be.'

Scotslad if that is what you really believe , you are living in fantasy land 

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2 hours ago, Salopian said:

Scotslad, 

I have read your previous posts and now realise how little you actually do know about the Countryside .

For goodness sake ,get real and man up to what is really going on . 

What we are doing with driven Game shooting is disgraceful and needs to stop immediately .

 

 

' All the birds will be released June to August and good keepering will keep them where they should be.'

Scotslad if that is what you really believe , you are living in fantasy land 

Salopian, are you really suggesting that birds are crated for release over guns, on that day, in the uk?

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