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wildrover77
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I have just received a letter from the CC. I am being sued for £1100. A customer of my limited company is suing me personally.

They sent me some dead camera batteries for refurbishment, I charge £120 as opposed to £1000 for new replacements. They got lost in the post on the way back. I immedialty refunded their payment. They are now claiming for new batteries.

Surely they need to sue my company, who the contract was with?

Surely they can not claim new battery's? the ones they sent me were worthless I refunded the refurbishment fee. The only thing I can see they can fairly claim is two dead batterys.

Can anyone give me some advice?

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Don’t see how they can claim for new batteries but I know nothing about the law. I suppose their argument is that they had 2batteries albeit dead ones, and now they haven’t got any. So they need replacing. Can you find any dead batteries to give them?

 

bit late now, but I never send anything except by signed for services.

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its the small claims court there is no chance to represent.

My lawyer has now opened for the day. They cant claim of me personally as all corresponce clearly sates a limited company. The cant claim  to put themselves in a better position than they started, which is what they are trying to do.

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Not a solicitor so bow  to their knowldge but have experience of CC. It is very easy to deal with this yourself online. Your solicitor has probably said you can serve an Acknwledgement of Service and Defence. In essence your defence is that you have no liability as the contract was written with the company. You can include a copy of the correspondence contract, invoice and detail what happened. Conclude by saying it is for the claimant to prove you have a liability and has not done so. Ask that the claim be dismissed and you are awarded costs.

Make sure though you get the defence in on time or you could be found liable in its absence.

Good luck

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2 minutes ago, Dave at kelton said:

Not a solicitor so bow  to their knowldge but have experience of CC. It is very easy to deal with this yourself online. Your solicitor has probably said you can serve an Acknwledgement of Service and Defence. In essence your defence is that you have no liability as the contract was written with the company. You can include a copy of the correspondence contract, invoice and detail what happened. Conclude by saying it is for the claimant to prove you have a liability and has not done so. Ask that the claim be dismissed and you are awarded costs.

Make sure though you get the defence in on time or you could be found liable in its absence.

Good luck

Thank you. exactly what my lawyer said.

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I was drafting the below while others were offering advice. Posted anyway.

Given the sums involved and the need to avoid a CCJ you should take legal advice. Maybe citizens advice bureau or does your home/business insurance include free legal helpline or are you in a business federation that has a legal helpline. Also, the small claims court has a facility to help people make a claim and you could try their advice to help you frame a response - details are on their website. Moreover, the courts require the claimant to demonstrate that they have attempted some form of arbitration before referring to the court. Have they done this?

That said, then based on (successful) practical experiences my thoughts on matters you may wish to consider including in your defence are as follows.

The claimant will need to claim against the legal entity with which they ( the claimant) can demonstrate has caused them the loss. From what you say then clearly they think it is you. I believe that in the first part of your defence you should state that the claimant is required to provide the Court with proof positive that it is you, personally, that has caused them the loss and not the company. Correpondingly, you would need to demonstrate that it in your opinion it was not you personally. That all communications you had with them were in the name of your company. For example adverts, correspondence on headed notepaper or footers on any emails that identified the company as the trading entity. Also, if you have their letter of instruction does it identify they wrote to you at your company and not just to you as an individual.

As to value of the claim you should in your defence firstly require the claimant to demonstrate with necessary proofs the extent of their loss. In your defence, with a copy of their instruction (hopefully you still have it) which asks you to refurbish the batteries, together with the fact that the company has refunded their costs  you would able to demonstrate that the extent of their loss is two used batteries and not two new ones. You should argue that you should you have any liability then you can only be held responsible for placing them back in to the position they were in before the loss which is two faulty batteries, and not for the value of of two new batteries which constitutes betterment.

Take your time in preparing your defence. Make bullet points in a tick off list to make sure you've covered everything. Frame it concisely and in logical order. Avoid slagging off the opposition. Make a draft. Brain storm with a buddy. Then, when happy with it summit your defence.

good luck.

 

Edited by Bobba
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2 minutes ago, Bobba said:

Given the sums involved and the need to avoid a CCJ you should take legal advice. Maybe citizens advice bureau or does your home/business insurance include free legal helpline or are you in a business federation that has a legal helpline. Also, the small claims court has a facility to help people make a claim and you could try their advice to help you frame a response - details are on their website. Moreover, the courts require the claimant to demonstrate that they have attempted some form of arbitration before referring to the court. Have they done this?

That said, then based on (successful) practical experiences my thoughts on matters you may wish to consider including in your defence are as follows.

The claimant will need to claim against the legal entity with which they ( the claimant) can demonstrate has caused them the loss. From what you say then clearly they think it is you. I believe that in the first part of your defence you should state that the claimant is required to provide the Court with proof positive that it is you, personally, that has caused them the loss and not the company. Correpondingly, you would need to demonstrate that it in your opinion it was not you personally. That all communications you had with them were in the name of your company. For example adverts, correspondence on headed notepaper or footers on any emails that identified the company as the trading entity. Also, if you have their letter of instruction does it identify they wrote to you at your company and not just to you as an individual.

As to value of the claim you should in your defence firstly require the claimant to demonstrate with necessary proofs the extent of their loss. In your defence, with a copy of their instruction (hopefully you still have it) which asks you to refurbish the batteries, together with the fact that the company has refunded their costs  you would able to demonstrate that the extent of their loss is two used batteries and not two new ones. You should argue that you should you have any liability then you can only be held responsible for placing them back in to the position they were in before the loss which is two faulty batteries, and not for the value of of two new batteries which constitutes betterment.

Take your time in preparing your defence. Make bullet points in a tick off list to make sure you've covered everything. Frame it concisely and in logical order. Avoid slagging off the opposition. Make a draft. Brain storm with a buddy. Then, when happy with it summit your defence.

good luck.

 

Thank you. There is a common thread to the good advice I am getting here.

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As a solicitor I don't deal with lower value small claims as it is not cost-effective to instruct a solicitor.

Do set out your position very clearly on the defence form, the above advice from Bobba is good but be aware that any twerp can issue a rubbish claim online and nobody looks at it properly until you have filed a defence. The court will then ask you to file a questionnaire about the claim.

Then the whole file will be sent out to your local county court and if you are lucky they might put it under the nose of someone who can read it critically.

In Bristol the court usually takes at least 28 days to look over the file & the directions questionnaires before making any orders/fixing any hearings. Read everything you get carefully and note down dates for doing things in your calendar so that you get them done on time, or early.

The process is likely to be : -

  • you file an acknowledgment of service indicating an intention to defend the claim, do that now.
  • within 28 days of service of the claim on you, file a detailed defence setting out your arguments in numbered paragraphs with double line spacing and good punctuation. Set it out in chronological order. Keep your sentences short. Make it easy to read (ask a 13 yr old to read it!) and do a summary conclusion at the end. Sign it off saying that you believe that the facts stated above are true. Do not send in all your documents at this stage as this comes later.
  • the money  claims centre will acknowledge receipt and direct you to file a Directions questionnaire form N180 which you can download from the court website. Fill this in carefully & send it back in time. Indicate willingness to mediate and the court will give you a free telephone mediation. This is a good idea as you can get your point across via a neutral mediator and if you settle, it can short-circuit all the work you have to do if it goes to a hearing.
  • the money claims centre will transfer the claim to your local county court in most cases
  • the local court will send you out an order after a little while setting out what you need to do to prepare for a final hearing. This will include sending copies of all of the documents you wish to use at the hearing to the other side before the hearing, and possibly sending a statement of what you want to say at the hearing (witness statement) as well.
  • the Claimant may make an application to the Court to substitute your company as the Defendant. If they do so it is probably sensible to agree to the application. If they don't then they are likely to come unstuck at the final hearing. Don't make their case for them.
  • do all you can to help the Court understand the case and to process the claim efficiently. Be patient & don't send lots of emails/make lots of calls to the Court. The court staff are not judges and can't knock cases out or decide who is right & who is wrong.
  • You will eventually end up with a short hearing with a District Judge who will look at everything & make a binding decision.

Hope this helps. Keep to the code, as they say in Pirates of the Caribbean, and you should come out alright in the end.

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4 hours ago, wildrover77 said:

its the small claims court there is no chance to represent.

My lawyer has now opened for the day. They cant claim of me personally as all corresponce clearly sates a limited company. The cant claim  to put themselves in a better position than they started, which is what they are trying to do.

Small claims court, you will be ok on your own, Judges seem to prefer it.

From experience they don't like legal eagles to be there.

Fairly sure under our law that you can't expect to be better off in a claim than you were before?

Been twice and the Judges were in full control and gave guidance freely. The last time the other party bought a Barrister, Judge not impressed and Barrister took no part.

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On ‎19‎/‎01‎/‎2018 at 21:08, Zapp said:

The PW collective comes up trumps again.

Let us know the outcome :good:

Excellent thread , some very cleaver people who are willing to give there time and knowledge for the satisfaction of helping somebody who they have never met , P W at its best.:good:

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I must thank everyone for the useful advice I have been getting, specific to the questions asked. Genuine people giving constructive advice if they have knowledge.

This compares to another forum I posted the same question. On which i got a stream of unhelpful advice, on a subject i had specifically stated i did not need information on and by people who had zero knowledge. To cap it all of i was told it was a deer stalking forum and that is what they are all experts on, none of them it would seem have any knowledge of anything besides shooting.

I am quite surprised at the difference in response from a 'lowly' pigeon shooters forum compared to a deer stalking forum. Maybe I am drawing stereotypes but I expect deer stalkers to be more educated and in general from the professional class. I was expecting to get much better advice from that forum than this.

Just shows how preconceptions can be wrong.

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42 minutes ago, wildrover77 said:

I must thank everyone for the useful advice I have been getting, specific to the questions asked. Genuine people giving constructive advice if they have knowledge.

This compares to another forum I posted the same question. On which i got a stream of unhelpful advice, on a subject i had specifically stated i did not need information on and by people who had zero knowledge. To cap it all of i was told it was a deer stalking forum and that is what they are all experts on, none of them it would seem have any knowledge of anything besides shooting.

I am quite surprised at the difference in response from a 'lowly' pigeon shooters forum compared to a deer stalking forum. Maybe I am drawing stereotypes but I expect deer stalkers to be more educated and in general from the professional class. I was expecting to get much better advice from that forum than this.

Just shows how preconceptions can be wrong.

I'm not sure this place is hugely representative of pigeon shooters, it's just a friendly and well used shooting forum. I've never shot a pigeon in my life. 

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It never ceases to amaze me how much collective knowledge there is on here.  I remember once someone asking how much a red telephone box weighs, to be told the exact answer within 2 minutes by a freight forwarder who had recently shipped one.

I dont think it follows that stalkers are more likely to be more educated or from the professional class.  A quick browse through the other forum in question is proof enough of that, although their admin seem to let most things go unless they think they are going to lose out on advertising subs.

You should have asked a question about PW, that seems to be the thing they all really want to talk about :lol:

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My extra 2p.

’It’s all about the paper trail’.

1. Write to confirm receipt and to set out when you received the court paperwork, when you consider an acknowledgment of service to be due and when you consider a defence to be due.

2. Don’t be in any hurry to rush your defence in (acknowledge service and use the whole 28 days available to you to develop a paper trail) else all they’ll do is discontinue the proceedings and start again on your Company.

3. I’d start a nice paper trail introducing the notion that they have issued proceedings against the wrong legal entity and that even should they proceed against the correct entity they are seeking something which they are not entitled to in any event. Set out that you will have to take advice (at a personal cost to you) but before doing you will give them the chance to discontinue now (with no Order as to costs) and walk away, but should this matter proceed (and you have to get advice) and it transpires that they have issued proceedings against the wrong entity / are pursuing a claim / remedy they are not entitled to, then at the appropriate moment you will show ‘this letter’ to the Court and seek costs due to unreasonable conduct and notwithstanding that the matter is a small claim. Take whatever invoice you get from your solicitor to court with you.

4. Saying that, have you whilst operating your limited company complied with The Business Names Act now rolled into the Companies Act 2006?

5. Lastly if this all came out of the blue and the other side didn’t follow the ‘pre-action protocols’ then make mention of that and the fact that had they followed them all of this could have been discussed / dealt with between the parties pre-issue.

It seems all nice and easy - the trick is in developing a paper trail that makes you look reasonable, gives them every chance but makes it clear they have not conducted themselves properly or as required.

 

Edited by Mungler
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