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Cogswell and Harrison accesories


silver pigeon69
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1 hour ago, Salopian said:

 

A good source for accessories is Toby Barclay at Heritage Guns .

Just had a look. They have some very nice items with an engraving service! 

2 minutes ago, Gunman said:

Try this guy . Shaun Mears , last number I had for him was  01670 861154 . Shaun refitted cases and dealt in a few .

Thanks. I will do (although I will have to wait and see if I need a double case!!! So may be a while yet! ) 

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27 minutes ago, silver pigeon69 said:

I think your right about the pair and case. 

I have done a little digging ( I am getting the info from C&H ) and my gun number was on a gun matching website. I contacted them and they said it was a very old listing but they would try and pass the details on. Not that I want to sell it but it would be nice to try and get number two(if sensible price). 

I will wait and see what C&H come back with. Hopefully the info will include any matched pair/s and numbers 

Dont hold your breath , no guaranteeing that the next serial numbered gun is the same as yours . Condition aside it could be a different bore, stock dimensions or barrel length .Even if your gun is numbered 1  it may not have been made as a pair as it was common to order one gun with the idea that you would add a second gun at a later date . Very few makes held the second number in reserve so the number 2 would not have had a consecutive number.

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2 hours ago, Gunman said:

Dont hold your breath , no guaranteeing that the next serial numbered gun is the same as yours . Condition aside it could be a different bore, stock dimensions or barrel length .Even if your gun is numbered 1  it may not have been made as a pair as it was common to order one gun with the idea that you would add a second gun at a later date . Very few makes held the second number in reserve so the number 2 would not have had a consecutive number.

I was going to ask about consecutive numbers, you read my mind!

i hope the info from C&H will give the serial number of the pair?

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2 hours ago, PeterHenry said:

Ok, so as prommised, these are the photos - sorry for image sizes, I've had to do this all on my phone

That’s very nice. A few questions pls. 

Is the label original?

are the snap caps original, if so how old?

what model of gun is it?

is the oil bottle,a perfume bottle?

thanks for putting the pics up, I will take a better look at them tonight  on the laptop. (I’m on the phone) but the gun and case look awesome!

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5 hours ago, silver pigeon69 said:

That’s very nice. A few questions pls. 

Is the label original?

are the snap caps original, if so how old?

what model of gun is it?

is the oil bottle,a perfume bottle?

thanks for putting the pics up, I will take a better look at them tonight  on the laptop. (I’m on the phone) but the gun and case look awesome!

As far as I know its original - it certianly matches the level of grime inside the gun case pre restoration / refit. I have had nagging doubts - but I have nagging doubts about everything. Any way, it was sold as original and i cant put my finger on any reason it is not.

 

I would guess the snap caps are 1960's/1970's - the 'cap' the firing pins strike is made of black plastic.

 

As far as I can tell its identical to the photo of the gun on page 50 of the Cogswell and Harrison book (which I'm guessing you have because of the picture of the gun in the red case you posted earlier) - apart from the fact that mine has a normal safty instead of reversed (and with a slightly diffrent design swich) and also that mines been sleeved and had the barrels blued at some point. So its based on a Gibbs and Pitt leaver cocked mechanism. Cogswell and Harrison also dated it to 1888 for me - but I didnt go the whole hog and pay for the other info (yet, at least)

 

Hahaha - thats the first thing my mum said when she saw the oil bottle as well. If you unscrew the lid it has a 'oil dripper' (???) inside. Anyway - it was brought as a victorian glass oil bottle from a gun shop I trust, that my familys always used - so thats what I'm sticking to haha

 

If you want to see the uncompressed images (still not great because of being shot on a phone) pm me and I can email them to you

IMG_20180122_11669.jpg

IMG_20180122_5667.jpg

Edited by PeterHenry
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Peter I would hazard a guess that the case has been re fitted or at least relined at some time in the past . There a couple of things that dont sit right for a case of its age and wear . Cant quite say what but I have seen a lot of cases in my working life and this looks looks like a lot that have been reworked . But at that age what hasn't .

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25 minutes ago, Gunman said:

Peter I would hazard a guess that the case has been re fitted or at least relined at some time in the past . There a couple of things that dont sit right for a case of its age and wear . Cant quite say what but I have seen a lot of cases in my working life and this looks looks like a lot that have been reworked . But at that age what hasn't .

Oh yes - totaly.

 

When I purchased it, it was an extreamly tatty case, lined in red and to fit a hammer gun. I had it reffited and relined by a chap near Litchfield - who's buisness card I can no longer find - but he made an excellent job of it.

 

It gives me a great deal of joy to know that I've had both the case and gun restored to a usable condition - I saw an identical cased gun for sale a few years ago, and the price that was being asked for it was more or less the same amount that I'd spent on this one - but without the time, effort and satisfaction of making it happen myself.

 

It shoots wonderfully as well

Edited by PeterHenry
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15 hours ago, PeterHenry said:

Hahaha - thats the first thing my mum said when she saw the oil bottle as well. If you unscrew the lid it has a 'oil dripper' (???) inside. Anyway - it was brought as a victorian glass oil bottle from a gun shop I trust, that my familys always used - so thats what I'm sticking to haha

 

 

The only reason i asked was because would they of made them in glass?? Didn't the old perfume bottles also have a dipper to administer the perfume in a similar way? (regardless, it still looks as though its supposed to be there, fits perfectly and i will keep my eye open for similar)

Do you know an approx age of the case? I would say it is older than 1888?? (But as you have probably worked out, i know very little on this subject!!!)

One thing that i think would look good in the case, and i have someone looking for me, is a few "period" cartridges. He's looking for some C&H or Blandon from 1902'ish.

I love the label and the way it has aged(looks too good to be fake/copy, i think?). I think there may be a thread started soon on how to age a document/label! (coffee springs to mind?)( i will try and save your label picture and use it as a reference!)

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2 hours ago, silver pigeon69 said:

The only reason i asked was because would they of made them in glass?? Didn't the old perfume bottles also have a dipper to administer the perfume in a similar way? (regardless, it still looks as though its supposed to be there, fits perfectly and i will keep my eye open for similar)

Do you know an approx age of the case? I would say it is older than 1888?? (But as you have probably worked out, i know very little on this subject!!!)

One thing that i think would look good in the case, and i have someone looking for me, is a few "period" cartridges. He's looking for some C&H or Blandon from 1902'ish.

I love the label and the way it has aged(looks too good to be fake/copy, i think?). I think there may be a thread started soon on how to age a document/label! (coffee springs to mind?)( i will try and save your label picture and use it as a reference!)

You've got me googling images of old glass gun oil bottles now - anyway, from the images I've seen, unless Holland and Holland did a line in perfume I'm ok haha

 

The case is more or less the same age as the gun - if I'm being totaly honest, I really wanted a case with the trade lable address matching the one on the rib of the gun - but everytime I found one (which wasent regularly) I was outbid. So when I found this one which was one adress change away, and only a matter of doors down from the adress on the gun, I decided to go for it - esspecialy as the lable is otherwise identical.

 

I'm on the lookout (eventualy) for a complimentary cartridge magazine to go with it - but by way of accessories in the case, I'd quite like an old norfolk liar.

 

Thats what I thought - but theres always a doubt in the back of my mind that its a fake. I think its because I got stung when buying a set supposidly antique prints once. On a helpful note, I noticed some fairly simmiler tones of discoloration when a mustard pot filled with oily rags and some residual oil mannaged to open slightly while in another gun case. So perhaps buying a bottle of Rangoon oil and occasionaly applying it lightly in patches would help? Also, perhaps using the occasiobsly black powder cartridge and spreading round some of the filth on a cloth from the barrels?

Edited by PeterHenry
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4 hours ago, PeterHenry said:

You've got me googling images of old glass gun oil bottles now - anyway, from the images I've seen, unless Holland and Holland did a line in perfume I'm ok haha

 

The case is more or less the same age as the gun - if I'm being totaly honest, I really wanted a case with the trade lable address matching the one on the rib of the gun - but everytime I found one (which wasent regularly) I was outbid. So when I found this one which was one adress change away, and only a matter of doors down from the adress on the gun, I decided to go for it - esspecialy as the lable is otherwise identical.

 

I'm on the lookout (eventualy) for a complimentary cartridge magazine to go with it - but by way of accessories in the case, I'd quite like an old norfolk liar.

 

Thats what I thought - but theres always a doubt in the back of my mind that its a fake. I think its because I got stung when buying a set supposidly antique prints once. On a helpful note, I noticed some fairly simmiler tones of discoloration when a mustard pot filled with oily rags and some residual oil mannaged to open slightly while in another gun case. So perhaps buying a bottle of Rangoon oil and occasionaly applying it lightly in patches would help? Also, perhaps using the occasiobsly black powder cartridge and spreading round some of the filth on a cloth from the barrels?

I’m sure the bottle is for your oil and not your perfume!! Lol

but I will be keeping an eye out for old perfume and medical pots!

 

Norfolk liar would be very nice, but not cheap

complimentary cartridge magazine??whats that?

“applying it lightly in patches would help? Also, perhaps using the occasiobsly black powder cartridge and spreading round some of the filth on a cloth from the barrels?”     And 100yrs of doing this!

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Haha

 

A cartridge magazine is a big box - normaly in a matching style to the gun case - complete with trade lable etc, that you store your cartridges in. It so when you were invited to shoot, all your kit could travel in style - and also be kept dry / safe

 

Yeah, I think if you take the same approach with your trade lable that pepole who fish with silk fly lines do - and work the wax (???) or in your case oil in everytime your packing away.

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2 minutes ago, PeterHenry said:

Haha

 

A cartridge magazine is a big box - normaly in a matching style to the gun case - complete with trade lable etc, that you store your cartridges in. It so when you were invited to shoot, all your kit could travel in style - and also be kept dry / safe

 

Yeah, I think if you take the same approach with your trade lable that pepole who fish with silk fly lines do - and work the wax (???) or in your case oil in everytime your packing away.

Ok. I know what a cartridge magazine is. I thought you were talking about something that went in the motor case!!

i’ll work on the label!

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 22/01/2018 at 12:17, Gunman said:

Dont hold your breath , no guaranteeing that the next serial numbered gun is the same as yours . Condition aside it could be a different bore, stock dimensions or barrel length .Even if your gun is numbered 1  it may not have been made as a pair as it was common to order one gun with the idea that you would add a second gun at a later date . Very few makes held the second number in reserve so the number 2 would not have had a consecutive number.

Just got the info back from C&H.

It was one of a pair, and the pair IS the next serial number! He paid 60 Guineas.

It was registered to a Mr C Bathurst. The only C Bathurst, i can find around the same period is

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Bathurst,_1st_Viscount_Bledisloe

( He wouldn't of had a title (Sir/Lord) when he ordered the guns) I have been in contact with his Great grandson, who remembers his Grandfather (Charles son) having a Cogswell and Harrison! He is going to try and check some old gamekeeper records which may have some details on.

Although the guns were completed on 4th November 1902, they were not collected until 24th December 1904, Christmas Eve! nice Christmas present.

(Any one got a C&H with serial number 27489??? :whistling:)

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On 1/22/2018 at 12:00, silver pigeon69 said:

 

 

On 1/22/2018 at 11:58, Gunman said:

Try this guy . Shaun Mears , last number I had for him was  01670 861154 . Shaun refitted cases and dealt in a few .

Top bloke Shaun Mears

On 1/21/2018 at 19:40, panoma1 said:

I don't know, but suspect gunmakers didn't make the motor cases, but bought them in from a specialist case maker to their requirements? same for the accessories?

Correct. Guns were/are sent to case makers to have case fitted around them. 

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1 hour ago, silver pigeon69 said:

Just got the info back from C&H.

It was one of a pair, and the pair IS the next serial number! He paid 60 Guineas.

It was registered to a Mr C Bathurst. The only C Bathurst, i can find around the same period is

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Bathurst,_1st_Viscount_Bledisloe

( He wouldn't of had a title (Sir/Lord) when he ordered the guns) I have been in contact with his Great grandson, who remembers his Grandfather (Charles son) having a Cogswell and Harrison! He is going to try and check some old gamekeeper records which may have some details on.

Although the guns were completed on 4th November 1902, they were not collected until 24th December 1904, Christmas Eve! nice Christmas present.

(Any one got a C&H with serial number 27489??? )

Is your gun serial No.27489 and is it the No.2 gun  ? Only if you go to the matched pairs website, someone is looking for gun number 27488, so presumably someone has registered with Matched Pairs seeking the number 1 gun.

Worth a look,

OB

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9 hours ago, Old Boggy said:

Just noticed that yours is the No.1 gun and your are asking if anyone has got 27489 so the one being sought on the matched pairs website IS yours i.e. 27488.

Worth checking.

OB

 

Hi OB,

I have already contacted matched pairs ( a few weeks ago), who are/were looking for my gun. They said it was a very old listing but they will try and contact them. I have not had a response yet so i will chase them in a week or so.

11 hours ago, Fil said:

 

Top bloke Shaun Mears

Correct. Guns were/are sent to case makers to have case fitted around them. 

Thanks for the info.

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