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heat treating 01 steel


ditchman
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From my memories of tool making the site covers the hardening and tempering of steel in some detail, I would imagine the info would be very helpful to the diy tool maker.

If I remember correctly 0-1 tool steel is precision ground flat stock W1.2510?

Edited by old'un
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29 minutes ago, old'un said:

From my memories of tool making the site covers the hardening and tempering of steel in some detail, I would imagine the info would be very helpful to the diy tool maker.

If I remember correctly 0-1 tool steel is precision ground flat stock W1.2510?

yep you are right......i have a good local supplier and can get it several sizes / shapes ..........all the tool steel (01) is already annealed ready for working............

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1 hour ago, ditchman said:

yep you are right......i have a good local supplier and can get it several sizes / shapes ..........all the tool steel (01) is already annealed ready for working............

I have used this steel to wire erode lots of gun parts for a mate (gunmaker) and also a few repair parts for my own guns amongst other bits and pieces, a very versatile steel.

How do you temper your steel after hardening, time or colour?

Edited by old'un
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44 minutes ago, old'un said:

I have used this steel to wire erode lots of gun parts for a mate (gunmaker) and also a few repair parts for my own guns amongst other bits and pieces, a very versatile steel.

How do you temper your steel after hardening, time or colour?

Right .......this is how "i" see it..............if im wrong fer christs sake tell me...........

 

  1. get billet and shape and drill oles
  2. leave edge thick
  3. put in forge gently bring to above (just) cherry red
  4. quench straight down into oil move up and down straight
  5. clean up...shiny
  6. put 1/2" steel plate on forge and put roof on forge
  7. put a couple of welding rods onto steel plate
  8. watch coulour run to "dark straw"
  9. remove sharpish
  10. place edge and some into clean oil
  11. leave spine to cool slowly whilst edge is in oil

temper 3 times

what do you rekon ???

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Must admit I have never made a knife from ground stock, made a few from old machine hacksaw blades (HSS).

You could hot forge the knife edge down to somewhere you want the finished item to-be, maybe around 1mm at the knife edge, or you could machine the excess material off, as you say you can rough shape and drill holes before hardening, it is possible to machine the steel after hardening with tungsten tipped tools, also be aware that it can air harden, so don’t let it get to cold when forging.

 

Hardening and temper

 

  1. get billet and shape and drill oles (yep)
  2. leave edge thick (lot of work removing metal after heat treatment)
  3. put in forge gently bring to above (just) cherry red (yep)
  4. quench straight down into oil move up and down straight (yep)
  5. clean up...shiny (yep)
  6. put 1/2" steel plate on forge and put roof on forge (yep or you could put plate on cradle and apply a heat source from below)
  7. put a couple of welding rods onto steel plate (no need unless you want to practice?)
  8. watch colour run to "dark straw" (as you know the colour will determine the hardness (Rockwell) of the steel, hold the knife shank with a pair of tongues, place blade on tempering plate, watch very carefully and move the blade to get an even temper, although it will not hurt if the back of the blade starts to blue a little as this is not the cutting edge, if the colour tempering starts to go wrong just cool in oil, polish and start again.  
  9. remove sharpish (when desired temper colour is reached or before if it starts to go wrong)
  10. place edge and some into clean oil (yep)
  11. leave spine to cool slowly whilst edge is in oil (remove when cool enough to handle)

Just one other point when tempering, don’t get the temper plate to hot, you want the colour to come up slowly, like I said before if things start going wrong then cool in oil, polish and start again.

I might be telling my grandmother how to suck eggs, but you are aware of friction tempering when grinding the blade?

Edited by old'un
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26 minutes ago, Bazooka Joe said:

I'm intrigued Ditchman, what's behind tempering 3 times.?

 

with what i have been reading on heat treating 01...for cutting tools and edges...it is recommended by the suppliers................now....3 times ?.....as to that i have no metalugical answer.:hmm:

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1 hour ago, Old farrier said:

You only really have to heat this stuff until it’s no longer magnetic 

 

although I don’t know what you’re doing messing about with new steel 

recycling a old land rover or a bit of armour plate of a tank would be a lot more fun ??

all the best 

of 

this is going to be fun 

titter yee not........TOGS

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Quote

with what i have been reading on heat treating 01...for cutting tools and edges

Thanks for the reply, the reason I asked is we used GFS everyday for punched & dies for cutting  brass/copper/steel/stainless steel/mild steel/phosphor bronze of all different thickness & only tempered GFS once.....it's a new one on me..:good:

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14 minutes ago, Bazooka Joe said:

Thanks for the reply, the reason I asked is we used GFS everyday for punched & dies for cutting  brass/copper/steel/stainless steel/mild steel/phosphor bronze of all different thickness & only tempered GFS once.....it's a new one on me..:good:

sorry its HEAT TREAT  once ...........TEMPER three times.............

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12 minutes ago, Bazooka Joe said:

Yes that's what I meant in my post, sorry for the confusion....we only tempered once, not 3 times.

Have you a link to what you've read on the heat treating..

i am on a metalugtists forum and it is a result of the conversation im having with one of the mods..............but i have also seen the 3#thrice bit on a metal suppliers website...something to do with the "normalising" of the tempered edge catching structure that has "hung" over to bring it within the required matrix you are trying to achieve

 

i getthe jist of it ...sort of...........sounds sensible to me....

no links im afraind until i can find what i was looking at...........

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I run 3 normalisation cycles to refine the grain structure before hardening also help reduce the chance of warping on the quench 

o1 I heat to 810 and hold for a few minutes then into warm oil as quickly as you can , check for hardness with a file so it skates and not bites into the steel them quick clean up and into oven for tempering 2hours the oven temp depends on what hardness you want for your blade 

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12 minutes ago, bigman said:

I run 3 normalisation cycles to refine the grain structure before hardening also help reduce the chance of warping on the quench 

o1 I heat to 810 and hold for a few minutes then into warm oil as quickly as you can , check for hardness with a file so it skates and not bites into the steel them quick clean up and into oven for tempering 2hours the oven temp depends on what hardness you want for your blade 

thanks...................interesting reply...........im starting to put all this info together  now..............your reply is similar to that of one of the metalugists on that USA forum...:good:

5 hours ago, old'un said:

 

Must admit I have never made a knife from ground stock, made a few from old machine hacksaw blades (HSS).

You could hot forge the knife edge down to somewhere you want the finished item to-be, maybe around 1mm at the knife edge, or you could machine the excess material off, as you say you can rough shape and drill holes before hardening, it is possible to machine the steel after hardening with tungsten tipped tools, also be aware that it can air harden, so don’t let it get to cold when forging.

 

Hardening and temper

 

  1. get billet and shape and drill oles (yep)
  2. leave edge thick (lot of work removing metal after heat treatment)
  3. put in forge gently bring to above (just) cherry red (yep)
  4. quench straight down into oil move up and down straight (yep)
  5. clean up...shiny (yep)
  6. put 1/2" steel plate on forge and put roof on forge (yep or you could put plate on cradle and apply a heat source from below)
  7. put a couple of welding rods onto steel plate (no need unless you want to practice?)
  8. watch colour run to "dark straw" (as you know the colour will determine the hardness (Rockwell) of the steel, hold the knife shank with a pair of tongues, place blade on tempering plate, watch very carefully and move the blade to get an even temper, although it will not hurt if the back of the blade starts to blue a little as this is not the cutting edge, if the colour tempering starts to go wrong just cool in oil, polish and start again.  
  9. remove sharpish (when desired temper colour is reached or before if it starts to go wrong)
  10. place edge and some into clean oil (yep)
  11. leave spine to cool slowly whilst edge is in oil (remove when cool enough to handle)

Just one other point when tempering, don’t get the temper plate to hot, you want the colour to come up slowly, like I said before if things start going wrong then cool in oil, polish and start again.

I might be telling my grandmother how to suck eggs, but you are aware of friction tempering when grinding the blade?

i am well aware of that..:good:...if you have a query just thro it in...i will take the input as well recieved wether i know it or not......................:good:

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4 hours ago, old'un said:

Well it looks like you have most of the info you need to have a go, what equipment do you have? Furnace or  hearth/forge? How will you do the tempering? What quenching oil you using?

 

Right i have just "done a deal" on a stonking item of machinery....i will pick it up in the next few days...and start to post up some pics so you can drewl over it........

so watch this space..:lol:

not saying what it is...as i havnt got it inmy sticky hands....but what i will say iiissss

 

  1. its old
  2. i have to go to sheffield to pick it up..:hmm:

 

Edited by ditchman
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