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Chris Packham (again)


ditchman
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7 hours ago, stuartc44 said:

No. Not talking ******. All the crabs we cook are killed before boiling. It does happen!!

Maybe?? But unless the crabs are different in Norfolk, every crab, lobster that i have caught have been put straight into boiling water and there legs did not fall off. (But it could be a good thing to circulate, then you  could just turn round to the antis and say, "Look, it must have been killed first, it still has its legs attached")

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7 hours ago, stuartc44 said:

No. Not talking ******. All the crabs we cook are killed before boiling. It does happen!!

How do you kill them Stuart, is it with a .410? ?

From my side, I used to dive and collect scallops and crab for the local fisheries in Cornwall, they were always kept alive until cooking. 

 

Mike

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I don't see how killing them first is any extra effort or time really. 

I can't see any good reason not to do it but I don't have a strong opinion either way.

That said I have boiled lobsters and crabs in the past and seen hundreds boiled live and the legs have never fallen off. 

On 02/02/2018 at 07:48, Gordon R said:

Dumb and dumber.:lol:

what is it that you disagree with?

Edited by ClemFandango
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7 minutes ago, ClemFandango said:

I don't see how killing them first is any extra effort or time really. 

I can't see any good reason not to do it but I don't have a strong opinion either way.

That said I have boiled lobsters and crabs in the past and seen hundreds boiled live and the legs have never fallen off. 

what is it that you disagree with?

Killing them first would probably double the time and effort taken at the moment. (as opposed to pouring a container of crab into a boiling pot)

This would almost double the cost (Good reason not to).

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3 minutes ago, ClemFandango said:

that's just ********. How are you expecting to kill them? 

You tell me? But whatever way has to take longer than the basket full of crab being lowered into boiling water?

Edit: Please tell me ANY WAY to kill a crab that would not double the time of the above process

Edited by silver pigeon69
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you can chill them or stick them between the eyes, if you do that as you are putting them into your boiling cage it takes no extra time. It certainly doesn't take double the time or cost double the money. 

 

I don't know how much I care either way and, like most I think Packham is a bit of a **** but personally I don't think he is out of order on this particular statement. He is a vocal animal rights activist who relies on his extreme views for publicity. The way to get the public on side is to argue effectively rather than getting up in arms, calling him names and denying scientific evidence.

His argument is based around evidence that crabs have a central nervous system that is capable of experiencing pain. No human will ever understand the level of pain as we can't experience it as if we were crabs, it may well be that they don't feel a thing and just die as the hot water hits them, but if there is a possibility that that's not the case I can't see a reasonable argument for not killing them before you boil them. 

 

Like I said I have done it in the past, live boiled/dead boiled makes no difference to the quality of the finished product. Personally I willl kill any crab/lobster before I put it in the pot. What others choose to do is up to them. 

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1 hour ago, Gordon R said:

Your gift for using the swear filter, whilst talking rubbish.:innocent: Just try to make your point without appearing to have a limited vocabulary.

 

my vocabulary aside, in what way am I talking rubbish? You don't think Chris Packham would have an opinion on halal butchery? 

 

or you think I was being unreasonable asking the person who posed the question to do his own leg work and pose the question himself? 

 

As for the argument that swearing indicates a lack of vocabulary. That in itself is total rubbish. Swearing can be used very effectively in written word to convey emotion, positive or negative. I used that particular naughty phrase in response to the original point I was replying to to indicate my ambivalence towards the likelihood of Packham having an opinion on the matter, and indicated that should the poster I was replying to want to find out what Packham's opinion might be perhaps he would like to make the effort to contact him himself. 

 

in the interest of brevity I think my original post was better with the use on the swear word in it.

 

hope that clears that up. 

Edited by ClemFandango
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1 hour ago, ClemFandango said:

you can chill them or stick them between the eyes, if you do that as you are putting them into your boiling cage it takes no extra time. It certainly doesn't take double the time or cost double the money. 

 

I don't know how much I care either way and, like most I think Packham is a bit of a **** but personally I don't think he is out of order on this particular statement. He is a vocal animal rights activist who relies on his extreme views for publicity. The way to get the public on side is to argue effectively rather than getting up in arms, calling him names and denying scientific evidence.

His argument is based around evidence that crabs have a central nervous system that is capable of experiencing pain. No human will ever understand the level of pain as we can't experience it as if we were crabs, it may well be that they don't feel a thing and just die as the hot water hits them, but if there is a possibility that that's not the case I can't see a reasonable argument for not killing them before you boil them. 

 

Like I said I have done it in the past, live boiled/dead boiled makes no difference to the quality of the finished product. Personally I willl kill any crab/lobster before I put it in the pot. What others choose to do is up to them. 

So you don’t think that by sticking them or freezing/cooling them will not take any longer or cost more???? 

How can you not think that by sticking each individual crab will not double the time taken to literally pour 20 crabs into a pot. Try it with say 10 potatoes and time yourself( I will even allow you to “stick” potatoes anywhere you like, without aiming) . I will bet you it takes at least twice as long as pouring 10 potatoes from one pot to another. 

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5 minutes ago, silver pigeon69 said:

So you don’t think that by sticking them or freezing/cooling them will not take any longer or cost more???? 

How can you not think that by sticking each individual crab will not double the time taken to literally pour 20 crabs into a pot. Try it with say 10 potatoes and time yourself( I will even allow you to “stick” potatoes anywhere you like, without aiming) . I will bet you it takes at least twice as long as pouring 10 potatoes from one pot to another. 

Now you are showing no concern for those poor potato's!:rolleyes:

2 minutes ago, dessyb said:

i once had crabs not very nice.

Only once?

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On 1/31/2018 at 12:45, aga man said:

JDog and I already apply this method. One of us fires a volley of shots at a bird to 'stun' the the other of us shoots it dead!

Seriously though the mind does boggle as to where many things in life are heading. People like Packham are everywhere it seems.

which one of you fires the volley to stun the bird? :lol:

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2 hours ago, ClemFandango said:

you can chill them or stick them between the eyes, if you do that as you are putting them into your boiling cage it takes no extra time. It certainly doesn't take double the time or cost double the money. 

 

 

Double the money of that process. 

If 1 man can spike say 800 crab a day. His wages £80 day. 

10p cost per crab processing/wholesale

at least 100% mark up wholesale (prob 2-300?)

retailer pays 20-30p more per crab puts his 200-300% mark up

consumer pays £1+ more per crab

That’s without processors costs for facilities etc

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ClemFandango - you stick to swearing. I will stick to my opinion that you are a rather limited individual.

As for answering your questions - take some of your own advice. Look again at what you post.

As for the subject in hand, I am always a bit concerned when activists raise issues about one species. No-one seems to care about rats and how they meet their demise. Mention a lobster or a fox and it almost instantly becomes a class issue.

Do gooders seem very selective.

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4 minutes ago, silver pigeon69 said:

Potatoes  have to be killed and prepped before eating as well,  they don’t grow chips at the back of Tesco’s!!

Prince Charles talks to his potatoes and tells them what he’s about to-do to them, Perhaps we could try it with crabs and lobsters.:whistling:

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4 hours ago, silver pigeon69 said:

So you don’t think that by sticking them or freezing/cooling them will not take any longer or cost more???? 

How can you not think that by sticking each individual crab will not double the time taken to literally pour 20 crabs into a pot. Try it with say 10 potatoes and time yourself( I will even allow you to “stick” potatoes anywhere you like, without aiming) . I will bet you it takes at least twice as long as pouring 10 potatoes from one pot to another. 

No. I don't. in fact I know it doesn't You're purposefully making it sound difficult. 

 

The crabs have to get into the pot you are pouring them from somehow, they don't just materialise there. Stick them on the way then pour them in the water as normal. No extra time. If you can't see that have a look at your processes.

3 hours ago, Gordon R said:

ClemFandango - you stick to swearing. I will stick to my opinion that you are a rather limited individual.

As for answering your questions - take some of your own advice. Look again at what you post.

As for the subject in hand, I am always a bit concerned when activists raise issues about one species. No-one seems to care about rats and how they meet their demise. Mention a lobster or a fox and it almost instantly becomes a class issue.

Do gooders seem very selective.

 

limited in what way? 

 

I agree with your last comment to some degree, personally I have no issue with killing any animal, but I don't see why we can't aspire to do so in the most humane way possible. 

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Just now, ClemFandango said:

No. I don't. in fact I know it doesn't You're purposefully making it sound difficult. 

 

The crabs have to get into the pot you are pouring them from somehow, they don't just materialise there. Stick them on the way then pour them in the water as normal. No extra time. If you can't see that have a look at your processes.

Where ever you "stick" them, it adds time to the process. im not making it sound difficult, im stateing a fact, it WILL take you longer to do. If something takes longer to do on a commercial scale it costs more money.

Just to clarify:

The facts as i see them (please any one correct me if wrong)

Regardless of where or when they are spiked, the process will take longer.

If the process takes longer, it will cost more.

Do you dissagree with the above two sentences?

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5 minutes ago, silver pigeon69 said:

Where ever you "stick" them, it adds time to the process. im not making it sound difficult, im stateing a fact, it WILL take you longer to do. If something takes longer to do on a commercial scale it costs more money.

Just to clarify:

The facts as i see them (please any one correct me if wrong)

Regardless of where or when they are spiked, the process will take longer.

If the process takes longer, it will cost more.

Do you dissagree with the above two sentences?

yup. I disagree with everything you have written thus far. 

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16 minutes ago, ClemFandango said:

No. I don't. in fact I know it doesn't You're purposefully making it sound difficult. 

 

The crabs have to get into the pot you are pouring them from somehow, they don't just materialise there. Stick them on the way then pour them in the water as normal. No extra time. If you can't see that have a look at your processes.

Ok. Then make me a bet and do the potatoe challenge.

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