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flippermaj

Dogs fighting

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    I have two cocker dogs, one is 2yrs old and the other 13yrs.  The older dog has started growling and intimidating the younger dog, the younger dog will try and avoid the conflict but if picked on will fight back and beats the older dog, they are now drawing blood  when they fight but 5 mins later will be best buddies..  The older dog continues to act aggresively to the younger one.  It appears to be  jealousy based fighting.

    I am thinking that I might have to castrate the older one to stop the fighting?  Does anyone have any other options and would castration be of any benefit?

    Cheers

    Flipper

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    Have you had the older dog vet checked. There could be a medical problem causing the aggression. 

    If they have been fine up to now its unlikely to be hormonal, so castration won't achieve anything.

    If they are drawing blood keep them separated if you can till you have had the older dog checked over. If its ill this can cause major temperament changes

    Edited by loriusgarrulus

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    Even with two dogs there is a pack dynamic.  It could be a battle for dominance to decide the Alpha. The younger dog may be behaving in such a way that is challenging for top dog position. Sometimes the shift can be subtle and go almost unchallenged.  On other occasions it can be a nasty affair.  I've experienced it with terriers which was messy, and the remedy was separation.  If this is the situation the only way you can assist is to treat the younger dog as the Alpha, greet it first, feed it first, generally show it more attention.  You will now have to reinforce the new pack structure.  In the human world we show empathy by protecting the frail and weak.  I'm the animal world they shun and attack frailty and weakness.  Castration won't assist, certainly not a 13 year old dog.  If they fight it may sort out who is boss, and it could be the end of it.

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    18 hours ago, silver pigeon69 said:

    The younger dog (2yrs) is now no longer a pup. Are they not just establishing their position/pecking order in the pack?

    I'd go with this... also, niether dog is alpha, you are 

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    23 hours ago, flippermaj said:

    I have two cocker dogs, one is 2yrs old and the other 13yrs.  The older dog has started growling and intimidating the younger dog, the younger dog will try and avoid the conflict but if picked on will fight back and beats the older dog, they are now drawing blood  when they fight but 5 mins later will be best buddies..  The older dog continues to act aggresively to the younger one.  It appears to be  jealousy based fighting.

    I am thinking that I might have to castrate the older one to stop the fighting?  Does anyone have any other options and would castration be of any benefit?

    Cheers

    Flipper

    This is a thread from a while ago with a similiar situation to yours.

    Well worth a read.

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    3 hours ago, Hendrix's rifle said:

    I'd go with this... also, niether dog is alpha, you are 

    Exactly!!   I always say I am the only person allowed to growl in our house.

    Difficult sitiation now it has been allowed to get to the stage you are at. You should be top dog from the start and they subserviant to you.  Always had dogs never bitches and ran them together without a problem.  All of the biting , fighting dogs I have seen it has been a result of the failure of the owner to be dominant.  Had to be said.

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    Thanks for all the replies.

    Looks like he will keep his nuts which is a good thing as he is 13 and I didn't want to put him through that!

    Interesting what Walker570 says, implying that basically I have not been dominant enough.  There may be some mileage in this as I have let the dogs have a go at each other in the hope that they would sort out some dominance order themselves but this hasn't happened.  Maybe I should wade in now and lay down the law 100%

    Thanks for the advice

     

    Cheers

    Flipper

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    On 05/02/2018 at 20:31, flippermaj said:

    Thanks for all the replies.

    Looks like he will keep his nuts which is a good thing as he is 13 and I didn't want to put him through that!

    Interesting what Walker570 says, implying that basically I have not been dominant enough.  There may be some mileage in this as I have let the dogs have a go at each other in the hope that they would sort out some dominance order themselves but this hasn't happened.  Maybe I should wade in now and lay down the law 100%

    Thanks for the advice

     

    Cheers

    Flipper

    How are they getting on now

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    They still go at it but I am trying to let the older dog know he is in the wrong.  The young one is still scared of the older one half the time then they play half the time!  

    I think the older dog is also just hacked off with the younger bouncy dog in his space plus his eyesight is not what it was and we do wonder if he has a bit of dementia.

    Cheers for asking

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    Ok so it's getting worse now!   The older dog had a go at the young one in the car on the way back from roost shooting.  The younger one put a small cut above the older dogs eye but it seemed ok so left it.

    Today old one was in the house while young one went out with the kids in the garden.  They all came in and old one had another go at young one, result is that original cut is now bigger and swollen so of to the vets and £200 lighter for it.  

    Old dog comes back from the vet and starts growling and having a go at young one again.  Young one scared and trying to keep out of the way.

    Can't see any more options than trying the castration route for the older one.

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    Castration wont work, you need to get rid of one of them. You aren't the first person to have this issue with Cockers.

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    Very bright little dogs that like to be the centre of attention, they can be a disruptive influence if they don't get all their own way. I know several people that have had similar issues with fighting & it's not only dogs, bitches are no different.

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    Give them both an equal pasting. Cockers, a damned good shaking by the scruff one in each hand, along with growling, raised voice verbal abuse. I'm serious. If you keep a kennel of dogs, from time to time fighting will crop up, and fighting is a no- no. So what to do? Fighting is violence and you need superior force to quell it. Reasoned argument doesn't work with dogs....

    As others have said, there shoud be only one boss and that's you. You don't tolerate fighting. They need to know that. Trust me, if you give the message forcefully enough, they'll learn. 

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    On 02/03/2018 at 20:47, Retsdon said:

    Give them both an equal pasting. Cockers, a damned good shaking by the scruff one in each hand, along with growling, raised voice verbal abuse. I'm serious. If you keep a kennel of dogs, from time to time fighting will crop up, and fighting is a no- no. So what to do? Fighting is violence and you need superior force to quell it. Reasoned argument doesn't work with dogs....

    As others have said, there shoud be only one boss and that's you. You don't tolerate fighting. They need to know that. Trust me, if you give the message forcefully enough, they'll learn. 

    Didn’t you advocate booting the dog in the other thread?

    Is that really what you want to do to your local companion? 

    I know there are certain situations that a dog needs to be ‘corrected’ but giving them a “pasting” or a “boot in the ribs” ? Really? 

     

    It sounds like the old fella is losing his eye sight, confused and grumpy and just repeatedly isn’t getting on with the young fella. 

    If giving the dog a scruffing as a correction and putting him away from the family when he misbehaves doesn’t get the message will it work beating the dog? 

    I’d either keep them well separated or move the old one to a nice retirement home if it came down to it.  

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    On 2/4/2018 at 20:36, silver pigeon69 said:

    The younger dog (2yrs) is now no longer a pup. Are they not just establishing their position/pecking order in the pack?

    This:good:

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    1 hour ago, hawkfanz said:

    i suppose a bit like us humans,we dont have the tolerance and patience we had when we were younger?

    Yes but you have the choice to leave someone’s company who does your head in... 

    imagine someone else made you hang out with someone you really dislike 24/7 and then when you finally come to blows they give you a pasting for your troubles. 

    Dont sound very fair ... 

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    At the moment we are managing the situ.  Any time the older dog starts to growl he gets told off and sent back to his bed in the utility room, younger dog stays in the kitchen out of the way of his own accord.  They now get fed separately, older one outside younger one inside.  The growling still occurs but is when they both come into the utility room from being out and about.  Usually settles down and they are then happy together, even playing at times.  If the older one starts to growl again the young one always tries to escape the situ by hiding under the kitchen table or moving to the other end of the room.

    The vet gave advice and said that we should still try and treat the older dog as the top dog as that is what he wants to be and the young one is happy to defer to the older one so we are doing that, she also said to make sure the older one gets plenty of attention as he is probably feeling left out.

    Cone off and stitches out so we will see where it goes from here!

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    sounds like it's going to be tricky no mater what you do, you might want to look a getting a muzzle for the older dog so he can't inflict any more damage on the younger one.

    another thing is the younger dog could end up being snappy with other dogs in the future, castration isn't likely to do anything just because of the age of the old dog, takes a while for the opp to have any effect.

    could either dog go live with a relative? Obviously not what you are going to want but could be best for the dogs?

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