James Bulger (petition)

[Delwint]

@12gauge82 & @ordnance I could show you an alleged picture of him! but then that would put me in contempt of court. Do your own search and see if you think the pictures doing the rounds are of him. They keep getting posted on twitter and keep getting taken down again.  If we can see them so can anybody else, who’s intentions may be dubious

[Jaymo]

11 minutes ago, strimmer_13 said:

It always does- should probably be outside rather than reading this :-)

[Delwint]

I for one would if it would stop snowing/raining!! ?

Edited February 11, 2018 by Delwint

[Whatmuff]

8 minutes ago, Jaymo said:

Where did Lloyd or I ever tell you that you should or shouldn’t sign? Like a certain other thread that regularly appears here, you have you own view and that’s apparently the only acceptable view.

Thats what I glean from it anyway, however I apologise if I’m wrong.

 

Whatmuff, suppose you also contributed to the Capital punishment thread? So murder with its associated sentencing isn’t sufficient for you and that you feel that it should be sub classified into possibly the following?

Murder of someone the same age- Prison

Murder of a senior citizen- poss death penalty 

Murder of a child- definitely the death penalty, a child murdering a child- still the same?

When they carried out what was obviously a heinous crime they were ‘kids’ and under the age of responsibility.

Its not right what they did of course, and this is going to come out entirely not as I mean it too, but children of that age dont Act in a rational way of thinking of their actions as an adult does! 

The lad served his sentence, what he did after could have been shaped from many circumstances from his own experiences, those experienced in prison or those he faced out of prison ( I’m not involved or qualified to say either way)

If this is a petition over the original sentence or just one that you and others feel he should be locked away indefinitely for a crime that doesn’t actually carry this level of sentencing or as some others have said “ hope the scum dies” , condone murder do you? 

 

Crimes will always be dealt with on a case by case basis So you can't say each crime for a sentence. But this one is different, yes they were children but they were evil and still are. It's not like they went to the newsagent and nicked a packet of chewing gum or smashed a car window, they knew what they were doing and to do what they did was unimaginable. Putting those low life's in prison costs the tax payer thousands a year and for what? Now look at what he's been done for, Cat A pornography. Have a watch of the documentary and come back and let us know if his sentence was served. He was evil and still is. 

Look at the Jihadis that are born IN Britain and move to Syria to fight, as soon as they fight with ISIS they become military targets and we can legally engage them. Move back to the UK and they are entitled to a trial? Huh???? no it's quite simple, they lost their human rights when they decided to behead civilians and burn people to death in cages and drown people in cages and throw people of buildings and skin people alive, but hey innocent until proven guilty and they deserve a second chance.  

Slightly off topic sorry but I am pretty fed up as the legal system is taking it's toll on the UK the prisons are over populated and underfunded and these prisoners have more rights than I do! When certain crimes have been committed then there must be a consequence to keep these people from ever entering society again. I can't see how these two killers will ever return to a normal psycological state to be reintergrated into society. I don't want them roaming the streets with my kids around. 

[Gordon R]

Both committed a truly horrific crime, but were very young at the time. If you give them the benefit of the doubt - few will - they have served their time and the slate should be wiped clean. 

Thompson has settled back into life and appears to have learned. However, Venables has repeatedly re-offended and is described as a threat to young children.

I feel sorry for Denise Fergus - lost her toddler and convinced that the system has been soft on the killers - particularly Venables. When Parole Boards release criminals, it is an act of faith that they are doing the right thing. Venables appears to be sticking two fingers up to Denise Fergus, the Parole Board and Joe Public in general.

Whilst the petition might have been drafted better, I have signed it in the almost vain hope that someone takes a fresh look at Venables' treatment. Perhaps his days of getting away with it are numbered. To those who don't think he has got away with anything - we will have to agree to disagree.

[Jaymo]

You mention ‘they’ were evil and still are! Factual or guesswork as his accomplice ‘Robert Thompson’ has not to my knowledge re-offended- can’t say obv if he sits at home having ‘evil’ thoughts, but I doubt it.

I understand your frustrations regarding the ‘system’ in general, however please don’t for one min think that the freedoms that you enjoy aren’t the same or as good as an ex crim. 

Nice post Gordon.

Agree to disagree- the fundamentals of all discussions 

 

edit, my normal poor spelling and grammar 

Edited February 11, 2018 by Jaymo

[Lloyd90]

I don’t believe I said people shouldn’t sign it, although I can’t recall exactly what I wrote as I’m quite busy today. 

Regardless, I did say that saying someone who disagrees with you actively wants to support / harbour the criminal in this crime is quite a ridiculous statement and quite uncalled for. 

 

I also find it very odd that we as shooters often complain that the public shouldn’t get involved in matters they don’t know anything about, such as country matters etc, where they make judgements based on emotional and moral panic, exactly like we saw with the campaign against fox hunting. 

This is also a very emotive topic which caused huge moral outrage at the time. 

 

As always, the law is the law for everyone and you can’t pick and choose which cases it applies to.

We can’t say “the parole board/court  have to sentence based on the law ... except in cases that hurt our feelings, in those cases the law doesn’t count!” 

[Rewulf]

5 hours ago, Jaymo said:

Since when did we ‘The Public’ become responsible for the Law.

Im not condoning him, or any other criminal- but just because we don’t agree with the sentencing handed out,should we really be getting involved.

There are many scrotes who seem to get lenient sentencing and its frustrating, but it’s the Courts domain and not ours.

If you really disagree, then take up the Legal Profession.

I think that says it all really. 

It's a petition, it probably will go nowhere, but it's those that aren't happy, having their say. 

I never said you said don't sign it, you both questioned the wisdom of it. 

That is all. 

[12gauge82]

Like I've said in other threads, I wouldn't take the chance by releasing people who have committd  heinous crimes, it' s not fair to the rest of law abiding society with children and the vunrable who can be prayed on by these evil people, that said, with child offenders maybe some leniency should be given, however putting that argument aside I don't think anyone can reasonably argue that Venables and Thompson haven't been given a second chance and Venables has proved time and time again he is a very dangerous individual who continues to pose a grave danger to children, why oh why has his human rights been pit before the safety of innocent children and members of the public, it is widely rumoured he has had at least one relationship with a women with a child and she had no knowledge of his past, true or false it doesn't take a genius to work out the very real potential danger, lock him up and throw away the key at the least, I would argue for humanely dispatching him for the good of all, but that's another argument.

Edited to add, his identity should be revealed to, he is no longer a child and he has breached the trust placed in him, protect victims and potential victims, not offenders!

Edited February 11, 2018 by 12gauge82

[harkom]

The Telegraph published an article last week-end. An interview with a solicitor appointed on behalf of the defence recalls his experience of the case. Makes very, very harrowing reading.

Perhaps the pundits pontificating on the guilty parties should have a read?

[picardy]

17 minutes ago, harkom said:

The Telegraph published an article last week-end. An interview with a solicitor appointed on behalf of the defence recalls his experience of the case. Makes very, very harrowing reading.

Perhaps the pundits pontificating on the guilty parties should have a read?

Well said pal totally agree ,the facts are out there for all to see , if we all sat back and left it for somebody else then nothing would ever change ! To reoffend TWICE , after such a barbaric crime and get a very small sentence simply is not good enough !!! 

3 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

Like I've said in other threads, I wouldn't take the chance by releasing people who have committd  heinous crimes, it' s not fair to the rest of law abiding society with children and the vunrable who can be prayed on by these evil people, that said, with child offenders maybe some leniency should be given, however putting that argument aside I don't think anyone can reasonably argue that Venables and Thompson haven't been given a second chance and Venables has proved time and time again he is a very dangerous individual who continues to pose a grave danger to children, why oh why has his human rights been pit before the safety of innocent children and members of the public, it is widely rumoured he has had at least one relationship with a women with a child and she had no knowledge of his past, true or false it doesn't take a genius to work out the very real potential danger, lock him up and throw away the key at the least, I would argue for humanely dispatching him for the good of all, but that's another argument.

Edited to add, his identity should be revealed to, he is no longer a child and he has breached the trust placed in him, protect victims and potential victims, not offenders!

??

[12gauge82]

All I see is people expressing their opinion on a very emotive subject and one that could effect anyone of us so it's no wonder there are strong views and I personally feel people have every right to have them considering the implications of a monster like Venables commtting further offences, the guy had a paedophile manual on how abuse baby's and not get caught for God's sake!

[Jaymo]

31 minutes ago, harkom said:

The Telegraph published an article last week-end. An interview with a solicitor appointed on behalf of the defence recalls his experience of the case. Makes very, very harrowing reading.

Perhaps the pundits pontificating on the guilty parties should have a read?

As many cases over the years also make for some very sobering reading, however I still believe in a Judicial system and respect the law, not some form of mob rule or lynching gang.

Im not just referring to this individual case for the sake of clarity

[picardy]

7 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

All I see is people expressing their opinion on a very emotive subject and one that could effect anyone of us so it's no wonder there are strong views and I personally feel people have every right to have them considering the implications of a monster like Venables commtting further offences, the guy had a paedophile manual on how abuse baby's and not get caught for God's sake!

Exactly ,and some people try to defend him , the man is a monster full stop !!

[Whatmuff]

If someone who committed a crime this bad and then continued to reoffend, enter places he was banned from, use illegal drugs, download cat A child pornography, obtain a paedophile manual on abusing babies and then only get 40 months, then I no longer believe in our Judicial system. That is why there is a petition and the public are well within their rights to have this looked into. Not last week the other stroker Warboys is allowed out into society, but hey lets all sit back and trust our system. 

[picardy]

1 minute ago, Whatmuff said:

If someone who committed a crime this bad and then continued to reoffend, enter places he was banned from, use illegal drugs, download cat A child pornography, obtain a paedophile manual on abusing babies and then only get 40 months, then I no longer believe in our Judicial system. That is why there is a petition and the public are well within their rights to have this looked into. Not last week the other stroker Warboys is allowed out into society, but hey lets all sit back and trust our system. 

Could not agree more ! Petition is now going strong at 179000 , and still rising.

[12gauge82]

13 minutes ago, Whatmuff said:

If someone who committed a crime this bad and then continued to reoffend, enter places he was banned from, use illegal drugs, download cat A child pornography, obtain a paedophile manual on abusing babies and then only get 40 months, then I no longer believe in our Judicial system. That is why there is a petition and the public are well within their rights to have this looked into. Not last week the other stroker Warboys is allowed out into society, but hey lets all sit back and trust our system. 

Spot on

9 minutes ago, picardy said:

Could not agree more ! Petition is now going strong at 179000 , and still rising.

Quiet right it shows the vast majority's anger in the way this has been dealt with and last time I checked we are supposed to be a democracy.

[Lloyd90]

1 hour ago, picardy said:

Exactly ,and some people try to defend him , the man is a monster full stop !!

Except no one on this thread has tried to defend him at all ... 

Let’s not let facts get in the way of your rant ...  

[grrclark]

1 hour ago, 12gauge82 said:

Quiet right it shows the vast majority's anger in the way this has been dealt with and last time I checked we are supposed to be a democracy.

179,000 out of 65,000,000 (approximately) does not a vast majority make, it does make almost 0.3% however, which in statistical terms  is trivial/inconsequential.

Being ridiculously pedantic aside, which i admittedly was but i hate hyperbolic distortion of facts, it does indeed highlight that there is a degree of discontent with the sentencing around JV and that is understandable.  However, thankfully we don't rely on a democracy when it comes to sentencing for crimes as it would be an utter disaster in every conceivable way.

Sadly a significant percentage of our populace are really rather stupid, ignorant and, depressingly, stupidly ignorant and to trust the stupid and ignorant with things like sentencing or making law would be an act of supremely stupid ignorance.  I reference Diane Abbot being an MP and opposition front bencher as evidence of my claimed public stupidity.

Our justice system does sometimes get it wrong and I think in the case of JV, as discussed in the other recent thread, I think we got it wrong in many ways, but the day that a public petition, that has the potential to be wholly signed by the aforementioned stupid, ignorant and stupidly ignorant, to define criminal sentencing will be a very bleak and black day.

 

[Gordon R]

Quote

that has the potential to be wholly signed by the aforementioned stupid, ignorant and stupidly ignorant, to define criminal sentencing will be a very bleak and black day.

It also has the potential to be signed by people who are outraged by the lenient way Venables has been treated. There have been many examples of where Judges got it wrong and the sentence has been reviewed. Was it the original Judge or the latter Judge who was stupid or ignorant?

Venables got the appropriate sentence - Denise Fergus would not agree - got his identity protected, set up in a new life. Does he follow the example of Thompson - no? As has been detailed - he has broken just about every aspect of the terms of his release - repeatedly, yet there are those who defend him. It has been said that no-one has defended him on this thread - so be it. His own Solicitor, who knows him far better than we do - has had enough of him.

I have no interest whatsoever in how he came to be like he is - I can't do anything about it. I am concerned that someone with his obvious criminal tendencies gets chance, after chance, after chance and is soon to be free to carry on exactly as he has done before. Just where do Parole Boards draw a line?

I hope and trust that Denise Fergus succeeds in getting some sort of justice for her son. Up to now - in the case of Venables - I don't believe she has.

[Rewulf]

Well said Gordon.

[old man]

10 hours ago, Jaymo said:

As many cases over the years also make for some very sobering reading, however I still believe in a Judicial system and respect the law, not some form of mob rule or lynching gang.

Im not just referring to this individual case for the sake of clarity

Me too but if the powers that be, politicos and judiciary don't sort out an effective system then who knows where we will end up?

It seems to simple old me that the system now cares more for the human rights

of the offender than the welfare and rights of the victim?

"Care in the community" that's a good one?

Edited February 12, 2018 by old man

[Lloyd90]

56 minutes ago, old man said:

Me too but if the powers that be, politicos and judiciary don't sort out an effective system then who knows where we will end up?

It seems to simple old me that the system now cares more for the human rights

of the offender than the welfare and rights of the victim?

"Care in the community" that's a good one?

If you think that you don’t understand how human rights legislation works.

Our justice system certainly is not perfect, but it’s the best I’ve seen around the world.

 

 

[Rewulf]

29 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

If you think that you don’t understand how human rights legislation works.

Our justice system certainly is not perfect, but it’s the best I’ve seen around the world.

 

 

Theres a good reason for that. 

Our justice system is fairly unique, and it's because its capable of being constantly adjusted via revue, and to an extent, public opinion. 

Not something that is so easily replicated with constitutional law, which is what most other countries have. 

We pioneered democratic laws, please don't allow them to become a mockery of what they were intended for. 

It very easy to say what should be done with criminals and rehabilitation in general, when it's not you that has been the victim. 

 

[Paul223]

9 hours ago, Gordon R said:

It also has the potential to be signed by people who are outraged by the lenient way Venables has been treated. There have been many examples of where Judges got it wrong and the sentence has been reviewed. Was it the original Judge or the latter Judge who was stupid or ignorant?

Venables got the appropriate sentence - Denise Fergus would not agree - got his identity protected, set up in a new life. Does he follow the example of Thompson - no? As has been detailed - he has broken just about every aspect of the terms of his release - repeatedly, yet there are those who defend him. It has been said that no-one has defended him on this thread - so be it. His own Solicitor, who knows him far better than we do - has had enough of him.

I have no interest whatsoever in how he came to be like he is - I can't do anything about it. I am concerned that someone with his obvious criminal tendencies gets chance, after chance, after chance and is soon to be free to carry on exactly as he has done before. Just where do Parole Boards draw a line?

I hope and trust that Denise Fergus succeeds in getting some sort of justice for her son. Up to now - in the case of Venables - I don't believe she has.

This