Seadog1408 Posted February 16, 2018 Report Share Posted February 16, 2018 42 minutes ago, silver pigeon69 said: IMO the CA press release blows the BASC one out of the water! The BASC gives me the impression that they are almost getting into bed with Labour! I'm not being biased as i am with the BASC (at the moment!!!) Indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rim Fire Posted February 17, 2018 Report Share Posted February 17, 2018 23 hours ago, motty said: Please explain why you think it is a good job that e collars are banned in Wales. Let me put a collar on you and zap you i have tried it and its not nice how can other people train their dogs without them they are not needed if you train your dog correctly only my opion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow Bear Posted February 17, 2018 Report Share Posted February 17, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Rim Fire said: Let me put a collar on you and zap you i have tried it and its not nice how can other people train their dogs without them they are not needed if you train your dog correctly only my opion Another case of Baby/bathwater -- not all e-collars zap, many buzz or vibrate but these are banned in Wales too. I know of 2 older working dogs that have gone deaf now leading a happier free life due to "communication" using a vibrate collar for stop and recall. Edited February 17, 2018 by Yellow Bear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greylag Posted February 17, 2018 Report Share Posted February 17, 2018 The C.A.once again takes the fore in replying to threat to our pastimes and the general difficulty people are having in the countryside.Please BASC would you put out a strong response to another Labour statement aimed at getting votes from the illinformed.Because make no mistake if there was an election tomorrow they could easily take control.When BASC says to respond to the statement I know my local MP is anti anything to do with shooting etc.so to get a fair hearing BASC must take the high ground.Put the facts out there to the general public not just to the converted,and it is also up to us to promote our pastimes to others and to tell them the untruths that are peddled as fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted February 17, 2018 Report Share Posted February 17, 2018 7 hours ago, Rim Fire said: Let me put a collar on you and zap you i have tried it and its not nice how can other people train their dogs without them they are not needed if you train your dog correctly only my opion It is a very interesting standpoint. For someone who shoots live quarry, I find it strange. You will happily shoot, knowing full well that there is a chance that the animal may not have an instant death, yet worry about a small and very temporary electric shock on a dog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 17, 2018 Report Share Posted February 17, 2018 One of the beaters on big driven local shoot used to have one on his Springer. He once told me that his dog would get all excited whenever he put the collar on as his dog knew it was going beating! ? 52 minutes ago, motty said: It is a very interesting standpoint. For someone who shoots live quarry, I find it strange. You will happily shoot, knowing full well that there is a chance that the animal may not have an instant death, yet worry about a small and very temporary electric shock on a dog. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rim Fire Posted February 18, 2018 Report Share Posted February 18, 2018 (edited) 9 hours ago, motty said: It is a very interesting standpoint. For someone who shoots live quarry, I find it strange. You will happily shoot, knowing full well that there is a chance that the animal may not have an instant death, yet worry about a small and very temporary electric shock on a dog. Let me put one on you and we will see how small and temporary you find it as i said i have tried it and it's not nice as i said thats my own opinion but it looks like on here your not allowed one If it so small temporary i wonder why some countries banned it Edited February 18, 2018 by Rim Fire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted February 18, 2018 Report Share Posted February 18, 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, Rim Fire said: Let me put one on you and we will see how small and temporary you find it as i said i have tried it and it's not nice as i said thats my own opinion but it looks like on here your not allowed one If it so small temporary i wonder why some countries banned it Of course you're allowed an opinion, and one which I respect. I'm just trying to get my head around it. It bothers you that a dog can have a small shock (and yes I could handle it, I'm not 5 years old), yet you would shoot a fox/rabbit knowing that it may not die instantly. I think I would rather have a collar around my neck than have someone shoot me! As an aside, should the palm of the hand also be banned, for when the dog may get a swift slap on the rump? Edited February 18, 2018 by motty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted February 18, 2018 Report Share Posted February 18, 2018 E collars are a way of controlling a dog by punishing it! Some people believe any type of corporal punishment is wrong and should be illegal!..........I confess I'm not one of em! Theres an old saying " A Spaniel, a Woman and a Walnut tree, the more you beat them the better they be" Tin hat on! Lol! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 18, 2018 Report Share Posted February 18, 2018 I took a lot of stick on here once for the way I taught ferret kits to stop biting me. There are many none corporal methods of training and disciplining animals, and if we could talk and reason with animals then perhaps there would be no need to discipline them, but sometimes the only thing they respond to is a quick clip. Its relatively easy to make a dog take notice and understand it’s done wrong with nothing more than your voice when it’s next to you, but it’s sometimes not too easy to attract its attention when it’s head is down and it’s in the zone. The landowner of a shoot I used to frequent would release his dog and then for the rest of the drive all anyone could hear was him shouting at it repeatedly until he was so exasperated by its disobedience that he would slog the poor thing when it did eventually return! No wonder it wouldn’t come back; every time it did it got beat! No one could tell him. Abysmally poor training, if it had any training at all. My Border was wonderful and had retrieved most things in feather and fur over her 12 fabulous years of killing everything she could get her jaws around! ?But at the end of the day she was a terrier and there were times I considered buying an e collar just to give her a little tingle when she appeared intent on disappearing into the next drive after a runner. I never did. I realise of course that most of her traits were down to my inabilities as a dog trainer, but I’m not a dog trainer. I’ll do my best, but at the end of the day I’m just a bloke who loves to shoot and take his dog with him. I know of undisciplined and ‘not up to par’ dogs which have been ‘got rid of’. Read into that what you will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver pigeon69 Posted February 18, 2018 Report Share Posted February 18, 2018 9 hours ago, Rim Fire said: Let me put one on you and we will see how small and temporary you find it as i said i have tried it and it's not nice as i said thats my own opinion but it looks like on here your not allowed one If it so small temporary i wonder why some countries banned it Isn't it a bit hypocritical banning collars, yet allowing thousands of miles of electric fencing?? (which i believe gives a much stronger shock and to many non-target species!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted February 18, 2018 Report Share Posted February 18, 2018 On 16/02/2018 at 10:58, squirrelhall said: “promote high standards with regards to game shoots, tackle criminality, and promote sustainability” How can anyone not agree with (or "welcome") this statement ? Perhaps BASC's communication slip up was the use of the word "welcome", which suggests they have been sitting around for years just waiting for this initiative, when in fact they have been promoting exactly these issues as part of their basic reason for existing. Being involved suggests the opportunity of influencing outcomes, not being involved could be considered as failing to represent their member's best interests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumpy22 Posted February 18, 2018 Report Share Posted February 18, 2018 9 hours ago, Scully said: I took a lot of stick on here once for the way I taught ferret kits to stop biting me. please let me know your method. not that i need it and probably heard it before. sorry to go of topic gentlemen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted February 18, 2018 Report Share Posted February 18, 2018 Quote Isn't it a bit hypocritical banning collars, yet allowing thousands of miles of electric fencing?? (which i believe gives a much stronger shock and to many non-target species!) Good point...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted February 18, 2018 Report Share Posted February 18, 2018 2 hours ago, bumpy22 said: please let me know your method. not that i need it and probably heard it before. sorry to go of topic gentlemen Probably giving the nose a little pinch. That's what I do. They learn fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumpy22 Posted February 19, 2018 Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 8 hours ago, motty said: Probably giving the nose a little pinch. That's what I do. They learn fast. I doubt it I would bite you if you kept pinching me. My young always get to chew on the hard knuckle of my hand soon give up.my kids have them in a bucket to play with from a very young age. Saw a guy years ago smack them on the nose it was great as soon as they saw fingers they would latch oni told him if you slap me I would bite you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrelhall Posted February 19, 2018 Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 23 hours ago, Cranfield said: How can anyone not agree with (or "welcome") this statement ? Perhaps BASC's communication slip up was the use of the word "welcome", which suggests they have been sitting around for years just waiting for this initiative, when in fact they have been promoting exactly these issues as part of their basic reason for existing. Being involved suggests the opportunity of influencing outcomes, not being involved could be considered as failing to represent their member's best interests. I thought Promote high standards in game shooting Tackle criminality and Promote Sustainability was already agreed if not it should be. If it is, what is there to welcome about discussing intensive rearing, It will have to be discussed but I fear for the out come. Game Shooting is dependant on rearing, BASC will have to be more careful with their language Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 19, 2018 Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 Wasn’t it discord between gamekeepers and BASC regarding how birds should be reared that ultimately brought about the NGO? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harkom Posted February 19, 2018 Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 On 2/17/2018 at 07:59, Rim Fire said: Let me put a collar on you and zap you i have tried it and its not nice how can other people train their dogs without them they are not needed if you train your dog correctly only my opion ".....if you train your dogs correctly...." And just how many dog owners follow this precept? My experience would suggest that very few - and here I mean the great majority of the dog owning public - have instilled very little/zero basic obedience in Rover/Fido. You only have to walk your own dogs in well used areas of public access to become embroiled with disobedient dogs and their foolish owners. Such a scenario immediately brings to mind the thought..... "My Gawd, these people have probably bred and reared kids"...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rim Fire Posted February 19, 2018 Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 3 hours ago, harkom said: ".....if you train your dogs correctly...." And just how many dog owners follow this precept? My experience would suggest that very few - and here I mean the great majority of the dog owning public - have instilled very little/zero basic obedience in Rover/Fido. You only have to walk your own dogs in well used areas of public access to become embroiled with disobedient dogs and their foolish owners. Such a scenario immediately brings to mind the thought..... "My Gawd, these people have probably bred and reared kids"...... Such as your self Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrelhall Posted February 19, 2018 Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 5 hours ago, Scully said: Wasn’t it discord between gamekeepers and BASC regarding how birds should be reared that ultimately brought about the NGO? Wasn t it about Partridge laying cages. Keepers thinking BASC wasn t supporting them ". Keepers not cages" Quote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruitloop Posted February 19, 2018 Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 On 2/14/2018 at 14:24, David BASC said: BASC is an all party organisation and we should, and do, welcome statements from any party which support shooting. im sorry david but i have to disagree with you about the lieber party supporting the shooting industry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dangerous Brian Posted March 21, 2018 Report Share Posted March 21, 2018 Did anyone who 'engaged' with the Labour party on this actually get a reply specific to any points raised? So far I have heard nothing regarding their proposal but seem to have been added to their mailing list judging by the amount of junk suddenly appearing in my inbox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dead eye alan Posted March 21, 2018 Report Share Posted March 21, 2018 10 minutes ago, Dangerous Brian said: Did anyone who 'engaged' with the Labour party on this actually get a reply specific to any points raised? So far I have heard nothing regarding their proposal but seem to have been added to their mailing list judging by the amount of junk suddenly appearing in my inbox. Funny that ha ha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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