aga man Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 6 minutes ago, ShootingEgg said: When in a hide and sat, the gun pointing straight up and muzzle above head height. Safety sometimes left off. Is this unsafe? In my opinion yes, there is certainly a potential for an unsafe situation. More a pet hate of mine really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShootingEgg Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 1 minute ago, aga man said: In my opinion yes, there is certainly a potential for an unsafe situation. More a pet hate of mine really. Definitely get where you are coming from. But why rely on a small mechanical part that could fail at any given moment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aga man Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 1 minute ago, ShootingEgg said: Definitely get where you are coming from. But why rely on a small mechanical part that could fail at any given moment? I wouldn't suggest relying on the safety catch entirely, but if safe handling and the safety catch used as intended are used both together, then surely we are as safe as can be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDog Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 29 minutes ago, ShootingEgg said: This.. The biggest safety feature on any gun is the user. A safety catch is just a piece of metal that can corrode and break. Never assume because the little S is visible that the gun is safe. When in a hide and sat, the gun pointing straight up and muzzle above head height. Safety sometimes left off. Is this unsafe? If your second paragraph is rhetorical then the answer to your question is ‘yes’. If it is not rhetorical then you should know better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 Driven shooting my gun is broken until I need to close it to shoot. Ditto for rough and walked up. In a hide with either an auto or OU both mate and me sit with muzzles pointing at sky and no safety. If there is ANY reason to have muzzles pointed anywhere other than at the sky, they are first made safe by emptying. I can’t ever recall using the safety on any of my guns. Apart from in a hide they are either broken or empty. The only time I have had muzzles pointed at me are those times when some shot of donkies years of experience sweeps them through me when removing from or replacing to, a gun in its slip. It is astounding how many folk have no idea how to do it without sweeping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow white Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 Only shoot game my safety is all ways on as i mount the gun my thumb just come round the stock and pushes the safty off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itchy trigger Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 you only need to close the gun when about to take the shot, even walked up, when younger all my shooting was walked up over spaniels, used a side by side, that had an auto safety, even so always carried open with cartridges in, totally safe, never have trusted safety catches shoot driven now, same applies, only close the gun when about to take the shot all my guns are non auto safety, I am the safety catch people only close the gun when about to take the shot/s when clay shooting so whats the problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norfolk dumpling Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 Muzzle awareness much more important to me although I try to keep the safety on until I about to shoot. I'm also aware of other gun's failings ie I got a reprimand from a keeper for the way I carryied my gun - pointing directly away from the other shoot workers and Guns - but on several occasions when beating we walked out of woods and his paying guns had guns unbroken pointing towards us! A late bird resulted in gun coming up in our direction! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultrastu Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 Ok .a question to the clay shooter with ou.guns Do you feel it safe and acceptable to sweep or accidentally point a gun at a person when the gun is broken ?? I dont think it is . You could argue that the gun is safe as the cart cant be fired . But what if you had a dead mans click and a cart failed to go off and you break the gun and then sweep a person and then with an open gun the primer ignites ? You effectivley fire forwards and backwards .at the same time . I see people carrying ou .broken over a shoulder at clay grounds all the time .sweeping people and following people down paths .for all I know there is 2 carts in the breech that could ? Go off.. A broken gun isn't 100 % imo . Poor muzzle awareness is rife at clay grounds .broken or not . I agree a broken gun is better than closed (obviously) but still ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultrastu Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 Just an example of how my mate and I shoot side by side in our hide . We shoot long hushpower pump guns (that can't be broken ) The guns are loaded and the safety always applied. The guns usually rest (between shots) .to our right against the hedge behind us .A bird approaches .we reach for the gun .take aim .click off the safety and fire .Or re engage it .and return the gun to rest behind .if the safety catch is not engaged .it's possible that the trigger can be pulled by a twig in the hedge as we reach for the gun .yes the gun is pointing upward above us (we are seated ,and the gun is long enough to be above us ) but I still wouldn't like a discharge at this point . Safety always on for us unless on aim . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultrastu Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 The top one is a huge no no in my book the lower image a little bit better but not by much . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultrastu Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 Best option imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted February 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 (edited) 18 hours ago, aga man said: Personally I only take the safety catch off when mounting the gun for a shot. That is the way I was always taught back in the day. I agree awareness of where the muzzles are pointing is far more important but to me the safety should be on until the gun needs to be discharged. People who shoot with me in a pigeon hide and leave the safety catch off seldom get a second invite. THANK YOU ! We were obviously taught at the same 'Old School' ! With regards to the 'pics', ONLY the young lady is right IMO.........................just a shame about the road workers suit though ! Edited February 22, 2018 by Westley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted February 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 1 hour ago, Ultrastu said: Just an example of how my mate and I shoot side by side in our hide . We shoot long hushpower pump guns (that can't be broken ) The guns are loaded and the safety always applied. The guns usually rest (between shots) .to our right against the hedge behind us .A bird approaches .we reach for the gun .take aim .click off the safety and fire .Or re engage it .and return the gun to rest behind .if the safety catch is not engaged .it's possible that the trigger can be pulled by a twig in the hedge as we reach for the gun .yes the gun is pointing upward above us (we are seated ,and the gun is long enough to be above us ) but I still wouldn't like a discharge at this point . Safety always on for us unless on aim . The only safe way to shoot 2 in a hide is for only ONE at a time to shoot, the other leaves his gun alone until the next bird arrives and then he takes his shot. If only one person shoots at any given time it avoids blowing the other persons head off. Believe me it HAS happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 I don’t mind how anyone carries a broken gun, as long as it’s broken. The only drawback of a broken gun with muzzles pointing backwards is the possibility of swiping someone. In a hide regardless of what type of mechanism, we sit with our loaded guns with butt between our feet and muzzles skyward, always with one hand on the gun while we sit and watch. We never lean them against anything unless proved empty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornfree Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 In nearly twenty years of shooting I've never used the safety on a shotgun. I use it all the time on my rifles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clodhopper Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 21 hours ago, Scully said: Ah....a major bugbear of mine! I will not knowingly shoot with anyone who relies on the safety to prevent them from shooting me or anyone else. Muzzle awareness is EVERYTHING, even if the safety is applied. but I can't think of any occasion ( except decoying in pairs with an OU perhaps ?) where a gun would be closed and the safety on! If the gun is closed then you should be about to take the shot, so why the need for the safety? It baffles and confounds me; it is so very very simple. One of the most annoying and most ignorant things to hear is 'it's ok, the safeties on'! It isn't ok at all. Auto or manual safety, that gun should be kept broken at all times until you mount it to actually shoot something; if the shot isn't taken the gun should immediately be broken again. Whether driven or walked up, there is no need to close your gun until its needed. When we lamp from a vehicle its quite easy to leave the breech open until its time to shoot. If the shot isnt taken I just drop the mag' and hold one hand under the housing; if you withdraw the bolt slowly enough the round just drops into your hand. Scully, whilst you are obviously very safety conscious my concerns with closing the gun at the last minute are that when shooting driven and occasionally walked up, there are times when others are in close proximity. As such when you close the gun you then have to bring the muzzles up from facing the ground to pointing skywards, whilst tracking an oncoming bird. I personally find it much safer in these circumstances to have the muzzles pointing skywards with the gun closed. After the shot I can then fully concentrate on the muzzle position when I reload. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 (edited) Ultra lots of negative comments about clay shooters but as someone who works in shooting and spends a lot of time on clay ground I see more game shooter doing dangerous things, having near misses or really accidents than clay shooters. Edited February 22, 2018 by welshwarrior Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biketestace Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 8 minutes ago, welshwarrior said: Ultra lots of negative comments about clay shooters but as someone who works in shooting and spends a lot of time on clay ground I see more game shooter doing dangerous things, having near misses or really accidents than clay shooters. Agreed ! Surely a open empty gun is a safe gun after all ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted February 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 17 minutes ago, welshwarrior said: Ultra lots of negative comments about clay shooters but as someone who works in shooting and spends a lot of time on clay ground I see more game shooter doing dangerous things, having near misses or really accidents than clay shooters. ABSOLUTELY ! I was involved with running a ground for 17 years and have worked as an Instructor at several grounds too. It is nearly always the game shooters that cause the most concern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 35 minutes ago, Clodhopper said: Scully, whilst you are obviously very safety conscious my concerns with closing the gun at the last minute are that when shooting driven and occasionally walked up, there are times when others are in close proximity. As such when you close the gun you then have to bring the muzzles up from facing the ground to pointing skywards, whilst tracking an oncoming bird. I personally find it much safer in these circumstances to have the muzzles pointing skywards with the gun closed. After the shot I can then fully concentrate on the muzzle position when I reload. Fair enough; each to their own. on driven I'll make allowances if I feel the beaters are too close, but we walk line abreast while rough shooting so its not a problem. If terrain forces us to walk indian file for a while then only the man up front shoots. Towards the latter stages of our syndicate season I'm often allocated back gun. I wait until the beaters are out of sight before I plod on. I always walk with a loaded and broken gun; it is only closed if anything comes my way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 (edited) 29 minutes ago, welshwarrior said: Ultra lots of negative comments about clay shooters but as someone who works in shooting and spends a lot of time on clay ground I see more game shooter doing dangerous things, having near misses or really accidents than clay shooters. Agree. Also walking or standing with gun open but cartridges in the chambers and then closing when a bird rises or approaches is to me one of the most dangerous times of all as the person is 99% concentarting on the bird and 1 % as to where the barrels are when they are closing and many times a gun has gone off just when it is being closed due to mechanical failure. I still feel that walking with the gun ported directly upwards held by the trigger hand, rested on the hip, with the safety on is by far the safe way to walk when about to shoot...that is if the hip can be found ahem!! ... when sat, either like me when at a peg on a driven day, sitting then the butt of the gun can rest on the thigh again held by the trigger hand ported directly up in the air but the safety can be off and still safe, same applies to sitting in a hide. I refuse to share a hide with anyone. I saw the result of a careless discharge to a persons head when friends where duck flighting. Does tend to gel your mind. Of subject slightly ...re clay shooters... I do tend to see them shoot anything and everything sometimes ..not always ...but often too close, result mashed birds. Edited February 22, 2018 by Walker570 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 26 minutes ago, welshwarrior said: Ultra lots of negative comments about clay shooters but as someone who works in shooting and spends a lot of time on clay ground I see more game shooter doing dangerous things, having near misses or really accidents than clay shooters. I'd have to agree with this. In my experience the most dangerous gun handling I've seen has usually been on game shoots, but neither have the monopoly on knowing how to remove from and return a gun to its slip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 5 minutes ago, Scully said: Fair enough; each to their own. on driven I'll make allowances if I feel the beaters are too close, but we walk line abreast while rough shooting so its not a problem. If terrain forces us to walk indian file for a while then only the man up front shoots. Towards the latter stages of our syndicate season I'm often allocated back gun. I wait until the beaters are out of sight before I plod on. I always walk with a loaded and broken gun; it is only closed if anything comes my way. Scully, the important thing is having your brain in gear and being aware of where everyone is situated or likely to be...guns, beaters, pickers up..even walkers on a footpath which has happened to me a couple of times as orange clad folks suddenly unexpectedly appear infront from a hole in the woodside. Better they have a polite "Good morning" and a touch of the cap than a load of 6s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clodhopper Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 15 minutes ago, Scully said: Fair enough; each to their own. on driven I'll make allowances if I feel the beaters are too close, but we walk line abreast while rough shooting so its not a problem. If terrain forces us to walk indian file for a while then only the man up front shoots. Towards the latter stages of our syndicate season I'm often allocated back gun. I wait until the beaters are out of sight before I plod on. I always walk with a loaded and broken gun; it is only closed if anything comes my way. Whilst it is clear that everyone has differing views on this particular issue I think that is fantastic that it is so ingrained in our sporting culture that we all do it without having it forced upon us by some governmental regulatory body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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