bornfree Posted February 23, 2018 Report Share Posted February 23, 2018 11 hours ago, Scully said: I think I’m the one Motty was referring to; and I’ll openly admit I have never used the safety on any of my shotguns, and I’m struggling to think of a time I have on a rifle to be honest. A AYA I own has an auto safety and it’s a pain in the rear as I mostly always forget to knock it off before mounting the gun as I always have my guns broken prior to shooting, unless I’m in a hide. Many years of shooting handguns ( revolvers don’t have safeties ) instilled in me that muzzle awareness is paramount. Keep your fingers away from that trigger and you’re good to go. It could have been me. I never use the safety on shotguns. I shoot around 200 cartridges a week on clays and in twenty years I've never ever used it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 23, 2018 Report Share Posted February 23, 2018 1 hour ago, panoma1 said: the safety catch Is there for a reason, so use it! Here we go; I wondered how long it would be before some holier than thou type decided to tell someone what they MUST do. If you can give me a valid reason as to what that 'reason' is, beyond having a broken gun; being aware of where your muzzles are and your finger off the trigger, then go ahead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted February 23, 2018 Report Share Posted February 23, 2018 1 hour ago, Blackpowder said: I have occasionally loaded on double gun days and certainly would not like to do so with non auto safety catches. Yet I am sure that in the hammer gun double gun days the loaded gun would be handed to the Gun fully cocked. Blackpowder Auto safeties not needed double gunning. Gun fires one or two barrels applies the safety catch. Loader grips fired gun pushed fresh gun into guns hand. If safety is not applied before handing the gun to the loader the change does not happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 23, 2018 Report Share Posted February 23, 2018 1 hour ago, Westley said: Yes, BUT when that gun was holstered, the hammer was on an empty chamber (ie, only 5 rounds loaded). It still did NOT stop a hole through the rear floor pan of a mini, when someones' gun caught in the seat belt, whilst climbing into the back seat ! Five was the norm, but it depended what discipline we were shooting. Speed loaders hold six rounds. Some 'classic' or 'vintage' revolvers only held five rounds. Only 1911 and variants were carried 'cocked and locked'. What reason did the person involved have for climbing into the rear seat of a vehicle with a loaded revolver (holstered or otherwise) and what was the cause of the negligent discharge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted February 23, 2018 Report Share Posted February 23, 2018 8 minutes ago, Scully said: Here we go; I wondered how long it would be before some holier than thou type decided to tell someone what they MUST do. If you can give me a valid reason as to what that 'reason' is, beyond having a broken gun; being aware of where your muzzles are and your finger off the trigger, then go ahead. Errrrrrrrrr......the clue is in the name Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornfree Posted February 23, 2018 Report Share Posted February 23, 2018 12 minutes ago, panoma1 said: Errrrrrrrrr......the clue is in the name I get the empty gun from slip, open it as I remove it. I then take open gun into the cage drop cartridges into gun wait until referee says OK . I then close gun call pull and shoot both barrels and repeat. If I get a no bird I open the gun if I get a trap breakdown I open gun and remove cartridges. When finished I walk from cage with open gun and put it in slip. So when should I use the safety catch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted February 23, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2018 23 minutes ago, Scully said: Five was the norm, but it depended what discipline we were shooting. Speed loaders hold six rounds. Some 'classic' or 'vintage' revolvers only held five rounds. Only 1911 and variants were carried 'cocked and locked'. What reason did the person involved have for climbing into the rear seat of a vehicle with a loaded revolver (holstered or otherwise) and what was the cause of the negligent discharge? The reason for loading 5 was so that the hammer was resting on an empty chamber. It was standard practice to carry the gun holstered in this manner. I also had a speed loader with 6 rounds. The 1 loose round was left in your locker. Lose a single round and you would be writing for the remainder of your Service ! Most of the unmarked cars were only 2 doors, which meant a climb into the rear seat. The seat belt caught the hammer, lifted it sufficiently and then dropped it onto what SHOULD have been an empty chamber............Bang.............and the forerunner for air con ! 11 minutes ago, bornfree said: I get the empty gun from slip, open it as I remove it. I then take open gun into the cage drop cartridges into gun wait until referee says OK . I then close gun call pull and shoot both barrels and repeat. If I get a no bird I open the gun if I get a trap breakdown I open gun and remove cartridges. When finished I walk from cage with open gun and put it in slip. So when should I use the safety catch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptC Posted February 23, 2018 Report Share Posted February 23, 2018 Many years ago I had an O/U with a detachable trigger plate - sliding the safety forward dropped the trigger plate. The safety was non auto so always had it "on " when standing on my peg then pushed to "off" to off during shooting. One day in the hottest of hot spots I slipped the safety forward to the "off" position as the birds began to flush forefinger resting on the trigger guard. Bang bang, reload and pushed the safety forward again only to loose the trigger plate in the deepest mud possible! Birds coming over and yours truly grovelling in the mud! Stupidly sold the gun a couple of days later! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ips Posted February 23, 2018 Report Share Posted February 23, 2018 For anyone who doesn't realise I think you will find that Mr Westley knows what he is talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB1 Posted February 23, 2018 Report Share Posted February 23, 2018 On 22/02/2018 at 19:42, welshwarrior said: Ultra lots of negative comments about clay shooters but as someone who works in shooting and spends a lot of time on clay ground I see more game shooter doing dangerous things, having near misses or really accidents than clay shooters. These days about 95% of my shooting is on clays and I see no end of idiots at clay grounds…… But what I've noticed is that more often than not its restricted to groups of 4 or more guns where the SGC holder isn't watching his entourage close enough. On Wednesday this week at Worsley, Manchester I walked past a group of 5 where the (I assume SGC holder) guy with the vest and O/U was in the stand taking his shots whilst one youngish lad was behind him chatting to another with his chin resting on the butt of a S/A and the muzzle on his boot toe…… the other guy, also with a S/A had the butt on the ground with the barrel in close proximity to his face….. Apart from the stupidity described above, I'll never understand why guys taking mates for a shoot, let rookies use S/A's in the first place I've seen many unsafe practices in the field over the years, but nowhere near as much as I've seen at clay grounds up and down the country……. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ips Posted February 23, 2018 Report Share Posted February 23, 2018 6 minutes ago, KB1 said: These days about 95% of my shooting is on clays and I see no end of idiots at clay grounds…… But what I've noticed is that more often than not its restricted to groups of 4 or more guns where the SGC holder isn't watching his entourage close enough. On Wednesday this week at Worsley, Manchester I walked past a group of 5 where the (I assume SGC holder) guy with the vest and O/U was in the stand taking his shots whilst one youngish lad was behind him chatting to another with his chin resting on the butt of a S/A and the muzzle on his boot toe…… the other guy, also with a S/A had the butt on the ground with the barrel in close proximity to his face….. Apart from the stupidity described above, I'll never understand why guys taking mates for a shoot, let rookies use S/A's in the first place I've seen many unsafe practices in the field over the years, but nowhere near as much as I've seen at clay grounds up and down the country……. Unbelievable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB1 Posted February 23, 2018 Report Share Posted February 23, 2018 Sad but true I'm afraid……. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptC Posted February 23, 2018 Report Share Posted February 23, 2018 35 minutes ago, ips said: For anyone who doesn't realise I think you will find that Mr Westley knows what he is talking about. Indeed so, my gun was Italian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted February 23, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2018 9 minutes ago, KB1 said: These days about 95% of my shooting is on clays and I see no end of idiots at clay grounds…… But what I've noticed is that more often than not its restricted to groups of 4 or more guns where the SGC holder isn't watching his entourage close enough. On Wednesday this week at Worsley, Manchester I walked past a group of 5 where the (I assume SGC holder) guy with the vest and O/U was in the stand taking his shots whilst one youngish lad was behind him chatting to another with his chin resting on the butt of a S/A and the muzzle on his boot toe…… the other guy, also with a S/A had the butt on the ground with the barrel in close proximity to his face….. Apart from the stupidity described above, I'll never understand why guys taking mates for a shoot, let rookies use S/A's in the first place I've seen many unsafe practices in the field over the years, but nowhere near as much as I've seen at clay grounds up and down the country……. The semi auto as an instructing tool, has the major benefit of lack of recoil and is my 'go to' gun especially for youngsters and Females and I have taught hundreds of both. What did you say to the offenders then ? 4 minutes ago, CaptC said: Indeed so, my gun was Italian A 'P' gun by any chance ? I once saw someone with the 20 bore version do exactly the same ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptC Posted February 23, 2018 Report Share Posted February 23, 2018 4 minutes ago, Westley said: The semi auto as an instructing tool, has the major benefit of lack of recoil and is my 'go to' gun especially for youngsters and Females and I have taught hundreds of both. What did you say to the offenders then ? A 'P' gun by any chance ? I once saw someone with the 20 bore version do exactly the same ! Yes, hate to say it - Perazzi - brings back fond memories of the gun and ever lasting regretting for selling it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted February 23, 2018 Report Share Posted February 23, 2018 59 minutes ago, bornfree said: I get the empty gun from slip, open it as I remove it. I then take open gun into the cage drop cartridges into gun wait until referee says OK . I then close gun call pull and shoot both barrels and repeat. If I get a no bird I open the gun if I get a trap breakdown I open gun and remove cartridges. When finished I walk from cage with open gun and put it in slip. So when should I use the safety catch? No referees, cages, traps etc in live quarry shooting, which if you had read my previous posting, you would see that was what I was referring to! After over 50 years of shooting........I still know very little about clay shooting, It doesn't Interest me!.........so when you're clay shooting, I'm not the one to advise you when you should use the safety catch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornfree Posted February 23, 2018 Report Share Posted February 23, 2018 OK how about sitting in a hide shooting. I use a remmy auto 3 cartridges loaded gun in hands muzzle upwards waiting for birds. If i put the gun down or rest it against a tree I open the bolt which is far safer than using the safety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB1 Posted February 23, 2018 Report Share Posted February 23, 2018 22 minutes ago, Westley said: The semi auto as an instructing tool, has the major benefit of lack of recoil and is my 'go to' gun especially for youngsters and Females and I have taught hundreds of both. What did you say to the offenders then ? Theres a big difference (in my opinion) in professional instruction with S/A's and letting a novice use your S/A for his first foray at a clay ground, or anywhere for that matter…….. and if only shooting 25 or so of fibre wad 24/28g cartridges then recoil shouldn't prove too much of an issue Anyway, without turning this into a O/U or S/A on clays issue, I rather think that most guns on here get what I'm on about when it comes to 'visible' safety in the hands of careless people such as I mentioned prior. I half expected to get questioned as to what I said to the guys, and seeing as they actually looked like "offenders" I took the option to just walk on by and make sure I wasn't in their vicinity again…… In the past I've politely mentioned a better approach to safety, only to be met with several expletives, so these days I leave it to the people that run the show to do their job. PS. Your statistic of hundreds taught clays with S/A's is quite an eye opener for me to be honest, as anytime I've witnessed tuition going on around me, its always been with a break action……. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaserF3 Posted February 23, 2018 Report Share Posted February 23, 2018 A semi auto is good for novices as the gun can be mounted in the correct position, which is not an easy thing for a novice to do, a cartridge is put in the chamber, press the button and you have a loaded gun. I find that much better than having a loaded O/U which then has to be put in the correct place on the novices shoulder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB1 Posted February 23, 2018 Report Share Posted February 23, 2018 26 minutes ago, BlaserF3 said: A semi auto is good for novices as the gun can be mounted in the correct position, which is not an easy thing for a novice to do, a cartridge is put in the chamber, press the button and you have a loaded gun. I find that much better than having a loaded O/U which then has to be put in the correct place on the novices shoulder. Like I said earlier, it was never my intention to turn this into a S/A or O/U 'which is better' debate. I was purely referring to safety aspects. Incidentally I possess both types of gun and have never had an issue with gun mount on either… but from now on I will pay closer attention to what guns instructors are using for instruction, and may well ask some of the instructors I know at the grounds I frequent as to why they use break action as opposed to S/A's which seem to be favoured in the last couple of posts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted February 24, 2018 Report Share Posted February 24, 2018 8 hours ago, KB1 said: Theres a big difference (in my opinion) in professional instruction with S/A's and letting a novice use your S/A for his first foray at a clay ground, or anywhere for that matter…….. and if only shooting 25 or so of fibre wad 24/28g cartridges then recoil shouldn't prove too much of an issue Anyway, without turning this into a O/U or S/A on clays issue, I rather think that most guns on here get what I'm on about when it comes to 'visible' safety in the hands of careless people such as I mentioned prior. I half expected to get questioned as to what I said to the guys, and seeing as they actually looked like "offenders" I took the option to just walk on by and make sure I wasn't in their vicinity again…… In the past I've politely mentioned a better approach to safety, only to be met with several expletives, so these days I leave it to the people that run the show to do their job. PS. Your statistic of hundreds taught clays with S/A's is quite an eye opener for me to be honest, as anytime I've witnessed tuition going on around me, its always been with a break action……. If this happens again please tell the ground the staff should sort it out and not leave it to customers. I’m luck our place uses caddies so it rarely happens. As to teaching with a semi auto, some do but it’s not for me correctly sized OU or SbS and light smooth cartridges there’s no issues IMHO but I’m lucky I’ve rack of guns to choose from not just 4 or 5 coaching guns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackpowder Posted February 24, 2018 Report Share Posted February 24, 2018 13 hours ago, welshwarrior said: Auto safeties not needed double gunning. Gun fires one or two barrels applies the safety catch. Loader grips fired gun pushed fresh gun into guns hand. If safety is not applied before handing the gun to the loader the change does not happen. Was thinking from the occasional loaders point of view , rather than the Gun's. Blackpowder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 24, 2018 Report Share Posted February 24, 2018 15 hours ago, panoma1 said: Errrrrrrrrr......the clue is in the name Errrrrrr.......is that it? That's the only reason you could come up with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 24, 2018 Report Share Posted February 24, 2018 14 hours ago, Westley said: The reason for loading 5 was so that the hammer was resting on an empty chamber. It was standard practice to carry the gun holstered in this manner. I also had a speed loader with 6 rounds. The 1 loose round was left in your locker. Lose a single round and you would be writing for the remainder of your Service ! Most of the unmarked cars were only 2 doors, which meant a climb into the rear seat. The seat belt caught the hammer, lifted it sufficiently and then dropped it onto what SHOULD have been an empty chamber............Bang.............and the forerunner for air con ! I'm aware of the reason for only loading five rounds in a revolver; so if it was standard practise why were six loaded on this occasion? While I'm not denying it's feasible to lift a hammer in this manner, this is the only time I've heard of it being done and causing a discharge. Normally either nothing happens, or the hammer is locked as the cylinder fully rotates. Very unlucky. Dependant on discipline, most of our holsters had 'thumb breaks'.....'clam shells' only being used for Practical events. Like I said, some classic and vintage revolvers only hold five rounds. 'Full use of the gun' events require six rounds in each reload. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted February 24, 2018 Report Share Posted February 24, 2018 39 minutes ago, Scully said: Errrrrrr.......is that it? That's the only reason you could come up with? What do you think the safety catch is there for? As an adornment? You tell me......what other reason is there to use the safety catch provided, other than for the purpose of safety? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.