ANOTHER BETRAYAL

[krugerandsmith]

22 hours ago, Mice! said:

And the massive pension.

Yes Neil kinnock and his wife laughing all the way to the Bank.

[Gordon R]

I don't think the negotiations have been handled well - this side of the channel - but to blame the UK when the EU spokesman keeps coming out with threatening drivel, is plainly silly.

It would be easier to say we will leave and pay nothing, but then Corbyn, Jimmy Krankie, some Tory  halfwits and the rest of the wets will bleat about being fair to the EU. Call the EU's bluff. No doubt someone will be along to say we can't, but they are in denial. We can.

Why the MPs can't unite behind May, for this one issue - voted for by the electorate - and put the country before their personal ambition - is beyond me. They are a bunch of self seeking children.

 

[JohnfromUK]

3 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

Why the MPs can't unite behind May, for this one issue - voted for by the electorate - and put the country before their personal ambition - is beyond me.

Quite - I seem to remember they unite about their pay increases, so it can be done (apart from possibly one or two who have spent too long in the subsidised bar)

[Gordon R]

John - harsh, but very fair.

[TriBsa]

People unite when they are shown leadership and vision. May was out of her depth as Home Secretary and is woefully inadequate as Prime Minister. The whole tone of the negotiations has been down to her. She isn't pro Brexit and it shows.

Imagine how Margaret Thatcher would have handled a similar scenario. Her position would have been clear and unambiguous from day one. Like her or loathe her, she was a leader.

[JohnfromUK]

Just now, TriBsa said:

People unite when they are shown leadership and vision. May was out of her depth as Home Secretary and is woefully inadequate as Prime Minister. The whole tone of the negotiations has been down to her. She isn't pro Brexit and it shows.

Imagine how Margaret Thatcher would have handled a similar scenario. Her position would have been clear and unambiguous from day one. Like her or loathe her, she was a leader.

+1

[matone]

19 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

I don't think the negotiations have been handled well - this side of the channel - but to blame the UK when the EU spokesman keeps coming out with threatening drivel, is plainly silly.

It would be easier to say we will leave and pay nothing, but then Corbyn, Jimmy Krankie, some Tory  halfwits and the rest of the wets will bleat about being fair to the EU. Call the EU's bluff. No doubt someone will be along to say we can't, but they are in denial. We can.

Why the MPs can't unite behind May, for this one issue - voted for by the electorate - and put the country before their personal ambition - is beyond me. They are a bunch of self seeking children.

 

Totally agree with you ! More than any other subject ,Brexit has revealed many of their true interests.

2 minutes ago, TriBsa said:

People unite when they are shown leadership and vision. May was out of her depth as Home Secretary and is woefully inadequate as Prime Minister. The whole tone of the negotiations has been down to her. She isn't pro Brexit and it shows.

Imagine how Margaret Thatcher would have handled a similar scenario. Her position would have been clear and unambiguous from day one. Like her or loathe her, she was a leader.

+2

[Gordon R]

I did not like Maggie Thatcher, but have come to see that she was a far stronger person than anyone who has succeeded her or preceded her for many years.

 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Just now, Gordon R said:

I did not like Maggie Thatcher, but have come to see that she was a far stronger person than anyone who has succeeded her or preceded her for many years.

 

She had more balls than the rest of her cabinet!

Edited February 28, 2018 by TIGHTCHOKE

[motty]

On ‎26‎/‎02‎/‎2018 at 16:34, Tim Kelly said:

To me, the closeness of the vote indicates that we should leave, but in the "softest" way possible. Had it been a 70% leave vote, then a "hard" Brexit would be justified, but as it is, there is no option other than trying to leave the political union with as little alteration to the "common market" we joined as possible.

**** that!!

[JohnfromUK]

A referendum is a vote, like an election - the most votes wins.  It is quite simple.

On another note, Blair was interviewed on the BBC radio this morning.  He openly stated he is in Brussels trying to find ways he can ensure Brexit doesn't happen.  He is not in any position of authority on behalf of anyone.  Why do Europe, the BBC etc give him space?  The sooner he shuts up the better.  He was asked some pointed questions about what authority he had - and like the slippery eel he always was, failed to answer the question.

[Newbie to this]

8 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

 

A referendum is a vote, like an election - the most votes wins.  It is quite simple.

 

Exactly, the fact that some people voted to remain doesn't matter. They had their chance in the voting booths and lost.

[JohnfromUK]

1 minute ago, Newbie to this said:

Exactly, the fact that some people voted to remain doesn't matter. They had their chance in the voting booths and lost.

I was a remain voter - but my side lost, so I now support the winning result.  That's how things go.  Move on.

In fact - IF the vote came again (and I hope it doesn't come to that) - I would now vote leave.  The attitude shown by the European Commission has been so totally uncooperative and bullying that we are best shot of them.  This completely unworkable proposal yesterday for a 'border' on the Irish sea - effectively annexing Northern Ireland is an example of how 'helpful' they are trying to be!  It also shows contempt to the people of Northern Ireland, who are part of the UK.

[Vince Green]

13 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

A referendum is a vote, like an election - the most votes wins.  It is quite simple.

On another note, Blair was interviewed on the BBC radio this morning.  He openly stated he is in Brussels trying to find ways he can ensure Brexit doesn't happen.  He is not in any position of authority on behalf of anyone.  Why do Europe, the BBC etc give him space?  The sooner he shuts up the better.  He was asked some pointed questions about what authority he had - and like the slippery eel he always was, failed to answer the question.

The fact that he is there at all undermines the UK's position. It is no secret he wanted the top job in Europe after he stopped being Prime Minister, it looks as though, in his deluded way, he still thinks he is in with a chance. Dream on Tony but stop meddling. 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

The damned man will not let it go!

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/03/01/european-leaders-could-change-immigration-rules-keep-britain/

[Vince Green]

30 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

The damned man will not let it go!

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/03/01/european-leaders-could-change-immigration-rules-keep-britain/

He really is beyond contempt

[pinfireman]

On 2/26/2018 at 19:36, bostonmick said:

I think we all need to get used to the idea we will never be out of the eu.its a total farce from start to finish.

Why?

On 2/26/2018 at 15:17, TriBsa said:

How anybody can vote Conservative after the Cameron & May years is beyond me. The next election, unless there is an emergence of a credible alternative, will see most people I think reluctantly voting for the party they least despise. Cameron and May have opened the door even wider to mass immigration and have held the population in  equal contempt to their Labour predecessors. We seem to be careering towards a Brexit in name only and a betrayal of our democratic vote. Our two party system has never looked shabbier. 

It was Blair/Brown who opened the door....it,s Cameron / May who failed to close it!

On 2/26/2018 at 15:34, oowee said:

Keir Starmer for President I say.

He is a duplicitous so and so (polite term!)...As  head of the Crown Prosecution Service, he deliberately failed to deport all those, like Abu Hamza, who wanted to  destroy Britain. He was useless!

[TriBsa]

2 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

The damned man will not let it go!

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/03/01/european-leaders-could-change-immigration-rules-keep-britain/

Time he was grounded. Remove his Passport and police protection squad and he wouldn't dare leave his house.

[pinfireman]

On 2/26/2018 at 15:38, JohnfromUK said:

Well, there was a possible 3 party system twice, but on neither occasion (UKIP and Lib/LibDem) has the 3rd party got anywhere significant.  UKIP has effectively disappeared as it was always pretty much a one man band (Nigel Farage) and one policy party (leave Europe) and he has retired (again) - and LibDems seem to pick the worst policies from both sides ...... and have mainly dreadful candidates (e.g. duplicitous Clegg, doddery Cable and the dishonest Huhne)

I could never vote for Labour because EVERY time we have had a Labour administration for any length of time, they have ruined the economy, forced up unemployment and made a complete mess.  Corbyn with his further left than recent labour policies would simply do the same faster and more severely - plus the idea of McDonald, Abbott and Thornberry in charge of or major departments of state is a nightmare.

Cameron and May have made a mess as well - principally (in my view) in both cases because their hands have been tied by the 'remain' wing of the party; Cameron tried to negotiate a better 'stay in' deal - and failed abysmally.  May will also fail unless she is enabled to make a proper clean break - so we can trade on a worldwide scale.  The likes of Dominic Grieve and Anna Souberry will do their best to prevent this and will very possibly bring the government down.  We then stand a real risk of a Corbyn fronted government - strings pulled by Len McLusky and Momentum.  Not a pleasant prospect at all.  The economic damage they will do will take decades to put right.

I could not have said it better myself!  Well said!

On 2/26/2018 at 15:48, oowee said:

Their hand are tied by the moderate (sensible) side and pushed by the extreme leave campaigners. 

Rubbish! A Democratic vote was taken, we voted to leave! Anyone  objecting to that is undemocratic! What is the point of having a vote, if the winners are denied the prize?

On 2/26/2018 at 15:52, JohnfromUK said:

I voted remain, but it was a close thing which way my vote went.  The country showed it wanted to leave, so leave it MUST be.  You seem to support those who wish to ignore the referendum outcome?  There was a referendum.  It gave a result.  That result must be acted on and we must leave the EU - Properly.  You can't have a referendum and ignore the outcome just because you don't like it.

Correct!

On 2/26/2018 at 16:12, Vince Green said:

Jeremy Corbyn has been one of the EU's biggest critics for years. The fact that he has now suddenly come out on 'the other side' has nothing to do with Brexit and nothing to do with the EU.

He is just adopting a position to undermine May's negotiating position in Europe and weaken it.

What he is fully aware of is the fact that in weakening May's position he also weaken's Britain's position at the negotiating table. Junker and his merry little band will be further encouraged to prevaricate and make trouble. Why would they not do that? when if they succeed in bringing down May they can wait for Corbyn.

He knows exactly what he is doing and he is prepared to sell Britain down the river in order to get what he wants. No suprises there then, the man is a communist remember, nothing matters except the party Comrade 

Correct!

On 2/26/2018 at 16:27, oowee said:

There are many shades of grey. 

In a vote, there is only black & white! It,s losers who say there are "shades of grey"....

[JohnfromUK]

5 minutes ago, TriBsa said:

Time he was grounded. Remove his Passport and police protection squad and he wouldn't dare leave his house.

Good idea!  I hadn't thought of that one.  Police cover to his local Tesco and back - and nowhere else!

[pinfireman]

On 2/26/2018 at 16:32, Newbie to this said:

I totally agree,

But to my mind the Conservatives are by far the lesser evil, Labour will just do what Labour do best, borrow, borrow and borrow some more, promise the world to all and their father and deliver at the expense of the national debt. Then whomever comes in after will have to deal with the mess and get hated for it, and so the vicious circle goes on.

We need one of two things in this group of Countries

• A viable alternative to the two main couldn't organise a **** up in a brewery parties
• Proportional representation

And let's not forget the fact that Jeremy Corbyn is a terrorist sympathiser along with Dianne Abbott and anyone who thinks she will be good for the Country must be mad.

Labour is not for the working class anymore, they stand for the non working and students.

Sadly, proportional representation will give you  a worse scenario than now....Lib/Dems, SNP, Paid Cwmri, Greens will ALL continue to side with Labour, and are ALL  EU lovers!

[GingerCat]

On ‎26‎/‎02‎/‎2018 at 16:42, oowee said:

Leave the EU yes. Leave the customs union? We did not vote for that.

Or moderate Governments that rule by consensus.

I think it was made very clear that leave meant exactly that. As the then prime minister said 

 

 

[pinfireman]

On 2/26/2018 at 16:34, Tim Kelly said:

To me, the closeness of the vote indicates that we should leave, but in the "softest" way possible. Had it been a 70% leave vote, then a "hard" Brexit would be justified, but as it is, there is no option other than trying to leave the political union with as little alteration to the "common market" we joined as possible.

The Majority was over ONE MILLION people, nothing close about that! Plus, most of those who did not vote when polled said that they did not do so, as they thought it was going to be a Government (Remain) stitch up, and if they  believed there was a chance to Leave, they would have voted Leave! No "soft" Brexit! That,s a bad as being still in the EU, and ruled by Brussels!

On 2/26/2018 at 16:42, oowee said:

Leave the EU yes. Leave the customs union? We did not vote for that.

Or moderate Governments that rule by consensus.

The customs union is an integral part of the EU...you cannot be in it, without being RULED by Brussels, 

On 2/26/2018 at 16:34, Tim Kelly said:

To me, the closeness of the vote indicates that we should leave, but in the "softest" way possible. Had it been a 70% leave vote, then a "hard" Brexit would be justified, but as it is, there is no option other than trying to leave the political union with as little alteration to the "common market" we joined as possible.

It has NOT been a Common Market for over 30 years!  You really have to keep up with the times......it is a political union, on the verge of becoming a Federal State! Where the UK would just be another province, with about as much say as your local council.

[pinfireman]

On 2/26/2018 at 16:49, oowee said:

But we are. The process of picking bits started with;-

The divorce agreement reached between the UK and EU in December, Britain promised that “no new regulatory barriers” would emerge between the mainland and Northern Ireland.

An agreement has NOT been reached yet....and the only people who would be upset by a hard border are the Nationalists (Sinn Fein). A hard border dictates that Northern Ireland is part of the UK...something that Adams and co  will not agree to!

On 2/26/2018 at 16:54, Tim Kelly said:

I disagree. I believe we should be part of an european union, just not this one. It is fundamentally undemocratic and as it has evolved into a political union it needs to be democratic in the sense we understand, ie political parties with defined policies which we can vote for or against, europe wide. The benefits of being a part of the greater europe far outweigh costs, but it does need to be accountable. Migration is one of those things that will ebb and flow as particular countries are doing relatively better or worse than other ones. I live in London and have always been used to a mix of people and don't find it threatening in the way large parts of the country seem to. 

Try living in say, Bradford, or Blackburn? 

On 2/26/2018 at 16:57, JohnfromUK said:

That was what the Irish (both sides of the border) wanted - and demanded before we could move on to the 'next stage'.  They also demanded a HUGE and in my view quite unjustified 'divorce settlement' to which we have apparently agreed (in principle).  Now I can understand we have some obligations such as pensions for (British) EU staff and MEPs etc., but cannot conceive how they came to the (vast) total.  I cannot see why we should be being asked to contribute to future projects.  The problem is the EU is effectively bankrupt because it spends money it hasn't got and our leaving will leave a huge hole as we have (together with Germany and Holland) been propping it up.  That would have to finish.

Correct!

[pinfireman]

On 2/26/2018 at 17:01, JohnfromUK said:

Actually, I don't think we are far apart - I phrased it poorly.  I an not against migration ......... either way ......... provided it is within our control and not imposed.  I believe we should be part of a common market, but NOT a common political union, NOT "ever closer integration", NOT a European army, NOT a commonly set (vast) budget .........

Then with those points of view, you should realise that we have to leave entirely, then negotiate a new trade deal. As for immigration, it,s not a handful turning up here, it,s a flood! Nearly 4 Million since Blair opened the doors!  We must CONTROL immigration,  otherwise, we are heading for a disaster!