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ANOTHER BETRAYAL


pinfireman
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1 minute ago, pinfireman said:

An agreement has NOT been reached yet....and the only people who would be upset by a hard border are the Nationalists (Sinn Fein). A hard border dictates that Northern Ireland is part of the UK...something that Adams and co  will not agree to!

You have to see it terms of counters in a game. A big carrot on the table to allow the EU to continue with its budget via the divorce settlement All net beneficiary members will welcome that). Ireland do not want a hard border anymore than anyone else. Who else do wee have to buy off? Maybe the larger nations will value the trade benefits and we can engineer some sort of customs union (read free trade agreement) ala Turkey / Canada ++. Then Europe gets its budget we get the trade and Ireland gets no hard border. 

Maybe we even a agree to follow most of the rules and chip a bit in to the pot now and again and jobs a good un.

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On 2/26/2018 at 17:18, oowee said:

 

Welcome to the grey side :lol::lol: We go 'all in' cards out on the table. We put down markers that are too good to loose and then we hope to 'buy' a deal. 

We don't know what we voted for other than leave therefore we wont know what we voted for until we have left. 

We all knew what we voted for.............Freedom! Freedom to make our own laws, freedom to restrict mass immigration,  freedom to be a sovereign nation again, freedom to prevent being part of a Federal State of Europe... We KNEW what we were voting for.....those who voted Remain did not!

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2 minutes ago, pinfireman said:

Then with those points of view, you should realise that we have to leave entirely, then negotiate a new trade deal. As for immigration, it,s not a handful turning up here, it,s a flood! Nearly 4 Million since Blair opened the doors!  We must CONTROL immigration,  otherwise, we are heading for a disaster!

We have control now over non eu migrants and more of them come to the UK than from the EU. The issue is not control were we have it we cannot use it.

Just now, pinfireman said:

We all knew what we voted for.............Freedom! Freedom to make our own laws, freedom to restrict mass immigration,  freedom to be a sovereign nation again, freedom to prevent being part of a Federal State of Europe... We KNEW what we were voting for.....those who voted Remain did not!

Looks to me like a vote for the past world for those that cant keep up.

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On 2/26/2018 at 18:12, oowee said:

Exactly. So much nonsense was talked about prior to the vote i even expect my bananas to have more of a curve in a few years time. 

Trust me on this one. It wont happen.

Trust you? Why? Not a great track record in debate on here....as we are not yet out of the EU swamp, we cannot, as yet, pay any of the EU  Budget into the NHS. But we will.........

On 2/26/2018 at 18:26, Retsdon said:

http://www.eureferendum.com  Unlike 99% of politicians, on Brexit this man knows what he's talking about.

From Saudi, eh? Really got your finger on the pulse of what is happening here, and the thoughts and views of those who are not ex-pats?

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38 minutes ago, pinfireman said:

Democratic vote was taken, we voted to leave! Anyone  objecting to that is undemocratic!

:good: nothing more needs adding to that.

3 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

I was a remain voter - but my side lost, so I now support the winning result.  That's how things go.  Move on.

In fact - IF the vote came again (and I hope it doesn't come to that) - I would now vote leave.  The attitude shown by the European Commission has been so totally uncooperative and bullying that we are best shot of them.  This completely unworkable proposal yesterday for a 'border' on the Irish sea - effectively annexing Northern Ireland is an example of how 'helpful' they are trying to be!  It also shows contempt to the people of Northern Ireland, who are part of the UK.

:good: let's hope more people from all over the EU see the same

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On 2/26/2018 at 21:26, tandytommo said:

Lots of rather childish winners too, if the brexit vote had gone the other way I can't imagine many contributors on this forum accepting the result graciously. I kind of hope Labour do win the next election, It will be very interesting to see if any of the rabid  right wing contributors on here would stop moaning and bitching about it.   

That,s a death wish for this country.....just take a look at the "Socialist"  paradises that Corbyn admires...his current favourite is Venezuela.  A single £ buys you 39,870 bolivars,,,, and this is a country with the world,s second largest oil reserves, a huge player in the oil business. And ruled by socialists! Be careful what you wish for.....

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On 2/27/2018 at 03:55, Retsdon said:

No there isn't. But both Switzerland and Austria are pretty much de facto members of the EU. 

"From the perspective of the EU, the treaties largely contain the same content as the EEA treaties, making Switzerland a virtual member of the EEA. Most EU law applies universally throughout the EU, the EEA and Switzerland, providing most of the conditions of the free movement of people, goods, services and capital that apply to full member states. Switzerland pays into the EU budget and extended the bilateral treaties to the new EU member states, just like full members did, although each extension requires the approval of Swiss voters in a referendum.

In a referendum on 5 June 2005, Swiss voters agreed, by a 55% majority, to join the Schengen Area. This came into effect on 12 December 2008.[7]

In 2009, the Swiss voted to extend the free movement of people to Bulgaria and Romania by 59.6% in favour to 40.4% against" ( From Wiki)

I don't think the leave voters had a Swiss - EU relationship in mind when they cast thrir votes. Might as well just have stayed in and at least had voting powers and the means to influence.

I doubt the Swiss, like the Hungarians, Bulgarians, Albanians, Greeks, Italians, Croatians, etc would now vote for "open borders" after 3 years of mass economic migration from North and Central Africa! And it is not over yet, millions more will keep trying to get into Europe. And most Europeans do not want them!

On 2/27/2018 at 07:08, JohnfromUK said:

They are already outside.

They didn't want to loose us; we are a major financial contributor and were seen as a soft touch for funds and as such we laid golden eggs.  They thought David Cameron would get a 'remain' vote, so gave him no real concessions in his renegotiation just pre referendum, preferring to rely on the 'Osborn scare tactics'.

They were badly rattled when the leave side won - it leaves a big gap in their financial plans.  If others, especially the Dutch (who are also considerable net contributors) follow and leave, there is a big danger the whole house of cards comes crashing down.  They MUST make it look like we are loosing badly by leaving, and are heavily 'punished' for not towing the European line and supporting the 'ever closer integration' aspirations of the (unelected) European Commission.

Actually, they are doing it quite successfully; they seem to have secured a HUGE divorce payment from us to (at least in part) fill the financial hole, ans have also managed to go behind the elected UK government - talking directly to those who wish to make the government fall (i.e. Corbyn and crew) and trying to engineer the fall of our elected government.

If Corbyn gets in, there is not a hope in hell he will get his 'modified single market'.  No 'pick and choose', or 'cake and eat it' has always been an EU red line - you take it all, open borders, EU courts jurisdiction, loss of some areas of sovereignty, or you get no single market.

As I said earlier in this thread, I did vote remain, but the EUs stance of punishing us and taking without giving in negotiations means I would now firmly vote leave.  I now see them for what they are - and want no part of it.

Excellent comment!

On 2/27/2018 at 08:48, Gordon R said:

I don't see many owning up to bedding Diane Abbott either.

I will not sleep tonight with that image in my head!

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35 minutes ago, oowee said:

You have to see it terms of counters in a game. A big carrot on the table to allow the EU to continue with its budget via the divorce settlement All net beneficiary members will welcome that). Ireland do not want a hard border anymore than anyone else. Who else do wee have to buy off? Maybe the larger nations will value the trade benefits and we can engineer some sort of customs union (read free trade agreement) ala Turkey / Canada ++. Then Europe gets its budget we get the trade and Ireland gets no hard border. 

Maybe we even a agree to follow most of the rules and chip a bit in to the pot now and again and jobs a good un.

We are chipping in sod all! After 47 years of chipping in, enough is enough!

35 minutes ago, oowee said:

We have control now over non eu migrants and more of them come to the UK than from the EU. The issue is not control were we have it we cannot use it.

Looks to me like a vote for the past world for those that cant keep up.

It seems you still live in the past.....believing in a "Common Market".....wake up! It,s on the verge of becoming a Federal Sates!

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I would still like us to simply walk away and take back control of our country, always hoped we would go the way of Australia, if you have skills we want or need and pass the tests to come in then welcome.

pretty sure countries in Europe will still want to buy from us and vise versa.

take back control then see how the chips fall.

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9 minutes ago, Mice! said:

I would still like us to simply walk away and take back control of our country, always hoped we would go the way of Australia, if you have skills we want or need and pass the tests to come in then welcome.

pretty sure countries in Europe will still want to buy from us and vise versa.

take back control then see how the chips fall.

:good:

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5 hours ago, pinfireman said:

That,s a death wish for this country.....just take a look at the "Socialist"  paradises that Corbyn admires...his current favourite is Venezuela.  A single £ buys you 39,870 bolivars,,,, and this is a country with the world,s second largest oil reserves, a huge player in the oil business. And ruled by socialists! Be careful what you wish for.....

Cheers pinfire, I've read all your numerous posts on the topic and despite you obviously knowing it all ! I'll trust my own judgement thank you. 

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39 minutes ago, tandytommo said:

Cheers pinfire, I've read all your numerous posts on the topic and despite you obviously knowing it all ! I'll trust my own judgement thank you. 

:) Then on your own head, be it!  Just as a matter of interest, can you name a socialist paradise? One with Free Speech, a Free Press, and a  low tax regime? No? I thought not!:lol:

4 hours ago, oowee said:

What's that got to do with immigration control?

Everything! They will keep sending us all the ones they do not want (Romania, Albania, Bulgaria, Slovakia etc.. unskilled, and in many cases, almost illiterate, with little English! As far as I can see, we do not need any more pizza delivery drivers, car wash "operatives", etc etc....

On 2/28/2018 at 14:32, TIGHTCHOKE said:

She had more balls than the rest of her cabinet!:good:

She had more balls than the entire House of Commons!

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7 hours ago, oowee said:

You have to see it terms of counters in a game. A big carrot on the table to allow the EU to continue with its budget via the divorce settlement All net beneficiary members will welcome that). Ireland do not want a hard border anymore than anyone else. Who else do wee have to buy off? Maybe the larger nations will value the trade benefits and we can engineer some sort of customs union (read free trade agreement) ala Turkey / Canada ++. Then Europe gets its budget we get the trade and Ireland gets no hard border. 

Maybe we even a agree to follow most of the rules and chip a bit in to the pot now and again and jobs a good un.

and our kids continue to be unable to get a job, due to the waves of unskilled immigration? And we PAY them for that?  What a great idea.....we pay for our own downfall. Wow! Are you one of Corbyns Front Benchers?

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7 hours ago, oowee said:

We have control now over non eu migrants and more of them come to the UK than from the EU. The issue is not control were we have it we cannot use it.

Looks to me like a vote for the past world for those that cant keep up.

We have control now? Are you serious? Can you count above 10? Are you from the Diane Abbott school of arithmetic? We DO NOT have control As for the last of your remarks, the greatest ever Englishman (as voted by the nation) said that a nation that  of ANY immigration! If we did we would not have 4 MILLION immigrants over the last 15 years!

As for the latter remark, let me paraphrase Winston Churchill............."A nation that forgets its past, has no future?" Or better still, "If Britain should have to choose between Europe, and the open sea, she should always choose the open sea"!

6 hours ago, Rewulf said:

 

From one Socialist to another!

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31 minutes ago, pinfireman said:

We have control now? Are you serious? Can you count above 10? Are you from the Diane Abbott school of arithmetic? We DO NOT have control As for the last of your remarks, the greatest ever Englishman (as voted by the nation) said that a nation that  of ANY immigration! If we did we would not have 4 MILLION immigrants over the last 15 years!

As for the latter remark, let me paraphrase Winston Churchill............."A nation that forgets its past, has no future?" Or better still, "If Britain should have to choose between Europe, and the open sea, she should always choose the open sea"!

From one Socialist to another!

I repeat for the hard of hearing or those with pure alexia. We have control of non EU migration. With that control we have higher levels of migration from non European countries than from within Europe. Your assertion that we need control to manage immigration is incorrect.

 

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1 hour ago, oowee said:

I repeat for the hard of hearing or those with pure alexia. We have control of non EU migration. With that control we have higher levels of migration from non European countries than from within Europe. Your assertion that we need control to manage immigration is incorrect.

 

And I repeat for those that don't seem to understand democracy, a vote has taken place and the people chose to leave the EU, so let's all get on with leaving.

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14 hours ago, oowee said:

I repeat for the hard of hearing or those with pure alexia. We have control of non EU migration. With that control we have higher levels of migration from non European countries than from within Europe. Your assertion that we need control to manage immigration is incorrect.

 

Been down this road a few times now havnt we ?

Do we have control ? If we did , there wouldnt be so many illegals entering the country, a number that cant even be quantified because we dont have a clue.
Calais camps, EU criminals coming here to sell drugs and set up prostitution and protection rackets, ghettos in cities, crime and benefit bills soaring.

The excuse that its our fault, can only stretch so far when the ECHR looms over any more draconian measures to limit non EU migrants, and EU laws prevent selective EU migration.
If it were all so simple, why dont  we deal with it ?
Blame the tories ? Why not, its not like blair let all and sundry in, and Corbyn promises to do the same is it ?

We are where we are , because of the situation that has been created by previous governments, and an inability to right those mistakes due to EU laws ans yes, a weak government.
The people have had enough and voted to rectify it, in majority.

13 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

And I repeat for those that don't seem to understand democracy, a vote has taken place and the people chose to leave the EU, so let's all get on with leaving.

Aah ..but those people didnt know what they were voting for, are largely 'uneducated' and mostly closet racists, all 17.4 million of them.
Let the 'clever' people sort out the big issues and put everything back to how it was, all rosy and nice :lol:

Farage was on question time last night, and said this, deliver the Brexit that those 17.4 million people voted for, or face the prospect of a new political movement that will tip the UK political landscape upside down, or words to that effect.
You think Brexit will be bad remainers ?
Try a non delivered Brexit, or a reversal, I absolutely guarantee you a bad time.

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16 hours ago, oowee said:

I repeat for the hard of hearing or those with pure alexia. We have control of non EU migration. With that control we have higher levels of migration from non European countries than from within Europe. Your assertion that we need control to manage immigration is incorrect.

 

And you are blind to reality! Ask anyone who works at Dover,  or Heathrow..Non-EU are still arriving in numbers, and the Home Office have NO IDEA how many are here, plus  fake "students" who never return home... PLUS, all those with the "right" to come from Third World countries that were former  colonies....a loophole that should have been blocked 50 years ago.....once full employment had been achieved!

1 hour ago, Rewulf said:

Been down this road a few times now havnt we ?

Do we have control ? If we did , there wouldnt be so many illegals entering the country, a number that cant even be quantified because we dont have a clue.
Calais camps, EU criminals coming here to sell drugs and set up prostitution and protection rackets, ghettos in cities, crime and benefit bills soaring.

The excuse that its our fault, can only stretch so far when the ECHR looms over any more draconian measures to limit non EU migrants, and EU laws prevent selective EU migration.
If it were all so simple, why dont  we deal with it ?
Blame the tories ? Why not, its not like blair let all and sundry in, and Corbyn promises to do the same is it ?

We are where we are , because of the situation that has been created by previous governments, and an inability to right those mistakes due to EU laws ans yes, a weak government.
The people have had enough and voted to rectify it, in majority.

Aah ..but those people didnt know what they were voting for, are largely 'uneducated' and mostly closet racists, all 17.4 million of them.
Let the 'clever' people sort out the big issues and put everything back to how it was, all rosy and nice :lol:

Farage was on question time last night, and said this, deliver the Brexit that those 17.4 million people voted for, or face the prospect of a new political movement that will tip the UK political landscape upside down, or words to that effect.
You think Brexit will be bad remainers ?
Try a non delivered Brexit, or a reversal, I absolutely guarantee you a bad time.

Absolutely correct!  Well said.

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1 hour ago, Rewulf said:

 

Aah ..but those people didnt know what they were voting for, are largely 'uneducated' and mostly closet racists, all 17.4 million of them.
Let the 'clever' people sort out the big issues and put everything back to how it was, all rosy and nice :lol:

Farage was on question time last night, and said this, deliver the Brexit that those 17.4 million people voted for, or face the prospect of a new political movement that will tip the UK political landscape upside down, or words to that effect.
You think Brexit will be bad remainers ?
Try a non delivered Brexit, or a reversal, I absolutely guarantee you a bad time.

The remain camp made it perfectly clear at the time of the referendum that a vote to leave would be a vote to leave the EU and all that it entailed, soft and hard brexit only became a thing when the expected vote to remain didn't materialize.

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