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Stevemitton

Gun cabinet change

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    1 hour ago, Dekers said:

    You are completely missing the point, you have no responsibility to advise the police if you buy/sell/exchange/install cabinets, neither are you restricted to only putting whatever number of guns a manufacturer may suggest into your cabinet. 

    If the Police/region/FEO tells you to do that ask WHY?  Which part of that is difficult?  Of course you have to think of security, who said you don't?

    If you wish to comply with every whim of some jobs worth who doesn't know the law that's up to you, and apparently a number of other people who simply don't have the balls to ask why?

    There are plenty of us who deal with our own security as we are responsible for doing under the regulations, our regions/FEO are perfectly happy, by your comments you are suggestion they are being negligent in their duty.   If you have a 3 gun Cabinet and the region is concerned about that they should put a condition on your FAC/SGC saying you are restricted to 3 guns until you can show adequate security for more, how difficult is that, and FAR more secure than some whim about cabinet size! 

     

    I am not missing the point at all, the chief of police must assess your security by law that is nothing to do with your responsibilities at all it’s to do with his/hers. If he/she is not satisfied with your security arrangements then he/she by law must revoke your certificate or not grant one, that bit is the law and has nothing to do with your responsibilities or even if you have broken the law or not.

    The risk assessment of security differs from force to force dependent on what they deem necessary so it’s not negligent if forces do it different just as long as they do as they see fit and continue to do it while the certificate is valid.

    With GMP they have a note on file saying there is security adequate for x number of guns, and GMP certainly tell you at your home visit how many guns they think your cabinet holds.

    If these figures don’t match up by law the chief of police MUST be satisfied that the security you have in place is adequate for the increase in guns how he/she goes about that is his/her business not mine.

    The simple fact is if the FEO is not satisfied because they haven’t checked your new security arrangements or for some other reason (high crime area + increase in guns etc) they have to by the wording of the firearms act revoke / not grant / renew  your certificate.

    How do you legally determine if someone’s satisfied or not, simple, if they say they are not satisfied then they are not.  

    With what you are saying I can get approved for one gun then go out and buy 20+ without upgrading my security in anyway shape or form, just stuff them in my cabinet, which makes a complete mockery of the original FEO security assessment levels in the guidelines so not how the guidelines view it or how the act was written.

    Edited by timps

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    38 minutes ago, timps said:

    I am not missing the point at all, the chief of police must assess your security by law that is nothing to do with my responsibilities at all it’s to do with his/hers. If he/she is not satisfied with your security arrangements then he/she by law must revoke your certificate or not grant one, that bit is the law and has nothing to do with my responsibilities or even if I have broken the law or not.

    The risk assessment of security differs from force to force dependent on what they deem necessary so it’s not negligent if forces do it different just as long as they do as they see fit and continue to do it while the certificate is valid.

    With GMP they have a note on file saying there is security adequate for x number of guns, and GMP certainly tell you at your home visit how may guns they think your cabinet holds.

    If these figures don’t match up by law the chief of police MUST be satisfied that the security you have in place is adequate for the increase in guns how he/she goes about that is his/her business not mine.

    The simple fact is if the FEO is not satisfied because they haven’t checked your new security arrangements or for some other reason (high crime area + increase in guns etc) they have to by the wording of the firearms act revoke your certificate.

    How do you legally determine if someone’s satisfied or not, simple, if they say they are not satisfied then they are not.  

    With what you are saying I can get approved for one gun then go out and buy 20+ without upgrading my security in anyway shape or form, which makes a complete mockery of the original FEO security assessment levels in the guidelines so not how the guidelines view it or how the act was written.

    We are not talking about a grant or higher security levels/risks/areas, and where exactly have I ever said or even suggested With what you are saying I can get approved for one gun then go out and buy 20+ without upgrading my security in anyway shape or form.

    What this topic is about is ...... you have no responsibility to advise the police if you buy/sell/exchange/install cabinets, neither are you restricted to only putting whatever number of guns a manufacturer may suggest into your cabinet. 

    After your Initial Grant, Security is completely in your hands, and if the police are not happy leaving it to you then they simply add conditions on your Certificates, they don't make up daft rules as they go along!

    There is NOTHING in the guidelines that's says you have to advise your region of any Cabinet change or putting 4 guns (etc) in your 3 gun Cabinet, if they wanted you to it would be simple to add it, they (The Home Office) are not concerned, gun security is your responsibility.

    The Police are at liberty to check/satisfy themselves of your gun security at any reasonable time, but we are not talking about that either!

     

     

    Edited by Dekers

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    Guest stevo
    18 hours ago, Scully said:

    This. Why oh why do people seem so intent on making an issue out of nothing? 

    Yes, the OP can indeed inform his FEO if he wants to, but there is absolutely no requirement by law whatsoever.

    I have three gun cabinets with only two guns in, and three gun cabinets with four guns in; and again, it matters not a jot if you can get a fifth in there as long as you fulfill your obligation under the terms of your license. For your FEO  to insist you need another cabinet in such circumstances is sphericals. 

    As for the matter of upgrading security to your home, then much depends on the opinion of your FEO and the area in which you live. This doesn’t mean you can’t upgrade off your own bat if that’s what you want to do.

    ☝️ This , just change it and stop worrying about it mucker , this is NO need to notify anyone . 

    The ONLY time I would ever consider informing the rozzers would if I moved the cabinet/cabinets to another place in house , but that would be it .

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    1 hour ago, Dekers said:

    We are not talking about a grant or higher security levels/risks/areas, and where exactly have I ever said or even suggested With what you are saying I can get approved for one gun then go out and buy 20+ without upgrading my security in anyway shape or form.

    What this topic is about is ...... you have no responsibility to advise the police if you buy/sell/exchange/install cabinets, neither are you restricted to only putting whatever number of guns a manufacturer may suggest into your cabinet. 

    After your Initial Grant, Security is completely in your hands, and if the police are not happy leaving it to you then they simply add conditions on your Certificates, they don't make up daft rules as they go along!

    There is NOTHING in the guidelines that's says you have to advise your region of any Cabinet change or putting 4 guns (etc) in your 3 gun Cabinet, if they wanted you to it would be simple to add it, they (The Home Office) are not concerned, gun security is your responsibility.

    The Police are at liberty to check/satisfy themselves of your gun security at any reasonable time, but we are not talking about that either!

     

     

    My original post was when you said the FEO didn’t need to “chasing up/ checking out a Storage/Security request.”

    I said yes, they do, it’s in the firearms act and part of the chief of police’s obligations, if they want to get shirty about they can and in my friends, experience have. I totally accept most don’t as long as you explain.

    You might feel you don’t have a responsibility but the chief of police has a legal responsibility to assess your security and if you have changed it in any way then they haven’t assessed it as is.

    After your original grant security is not solely up to you, its covered by statue law, if the police don’t think what you have done is adequate you can be prosecuted regardless of whether you think its OK or not.

    The chief of police has also still got to ensure public safety which means ongoing risk assessment so guns don’t fall into wrong hands even though you might not have broke the law regarding security just an increased risk. The more guns  held on a premises is considered  an increased risk.

    They have originally assessed your security and are happy for it for 5 years no need for conditions, if circumstances change such as burglary, installing new cabinets they will reassess. If you don’t want to send them an email then that’s fine but I wouldn’t move to Greater Manchester anytime soon as they say they are happy for x number of guns and will pull you should you go over.

    My whole point is if the chief of police is not satisfied he can and will revoke whether you agree with him or not. It was in reply to your post that they didn't need to do it and this thread  has snowballed from there.

     

     

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    8 minutes ago, timps said:

    My original post was when you said the FEO didn’t need to “chasing up/ checking out a Storage/Security request.”

    I said yes, they do, it’s in the firearms act and part of the chief of police’s obligations, if they want to get shirty about they can and in my friends, experience have. I totally accept most don’t as long as you explain.

    You might feel you don’t have a responsibility but the chief of police has a legal responsibility to assess your security and if you have changed it in any way then they haven’t assessed it as is.

    After your original grant security is not solely up to you, its covered by statue law, if the police don’t think what you have done is adequate you can be prosecuted regardless of whether you think its OK or not.

    The chief of police has also still got to ensure public safety which means ongoing risk assessment so guns don’t fall into wrong hands even though you might not have broke the law regarding security just an increased risk. The more guns  held on a premises is considered  an increased risk.

    They have originally assessed your security and are happy for it for 5 years no need for conditions, if circumstances change such as burglary, installing new cabinets they will reassess. If you don’t want to send them an email then that’s fine but I wouldn’t move to Greater Manchester anytime soon as they say they are happy for x number of guns and will pull you should you go over.

    My whole point is if the chief of police is not satisfied he can and will revoke whether you agree with him or not. It was in reply to your post that they didn't need to do it and this thread  has snowballed from there.

     

     

     

    We are on completely different pages on this one and you are simply not taking in or listening to what I am saying. 

     

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    It's a shame when someone asks a reasonable question and get all sorts of different answers.

    The short answer to the OP's original post is you CAN inform the cops of a new cabinet if you wish to, but there is no legal requirement for you to do so. :good:

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    9 minutes ago, walshie said:

    It's a shame when someone asks a reasonable question and get all sorts of different answers.

    The short answer to the OP's original post is you CAN inform the cops of a new cabinet if you wish to, but there is no legal requirement for you to do so. :good:

    The cops contacted me about it Walshie. I asked if I should have contacted them.

    Seems I opened a can of worms, sorry guys!

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    3 minutes ago, Stevemitton said:

    The cops contacted me about it Walshie. I asked if I should have contacted them.

    Seems I opened a can of worms, sorry guys!

    No worries. I was just saying if they hadn't contacted you and you hadn't contacted them, there still wouldn't have been a problem. 

    5560307605_20d7d60de9_b.jpg.9ffd6ef4e0486534e62fa008aeb7cfd7.jpg

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    11 minutes ago, walshie said:

    No worries. I was just saying if they hadn't contacted you and you hadn't contacted them, there still wouldn't have been a problem. 

    5560307605_20d7d60de9_b.jpg.9ffd6ef4e0486534e62fa008aeb7cfd7.jpg

    Cheers mate ?

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    37 minutes ago, walshie said:

    It's a shame when someone asks a reasonable question and get all sorts of different answers.

    The short answer to the OP's original post is you CAN inform the cops of a new cabinet if you wish to, but there is no legal requirement for you to do so. :good:

    Yes it is, but that is the general nature of Forums!:rolleyes:

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    1 hour ago, walshie said:

    It's a shame when someone asks a reasonable question and get all sorts of different answers.

    The short answer to the OP's original post is you CAN inform the cops of a new cabinet if you wish to, but there is no legal requirement for you to do so. :good:

    :yes::good:

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    14 hours ago, Stevemitton said:

    The cops contacted me about it Walshie. I asked if I should have contacted them.

    Seems I opened a can of worms, sorry guys!

    Out of curiosity, what did they say? I'm in the same boat, in Derbyshire and just bought another cabinet to fit. 

    Cheers

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    48 minutes ago, labstaff said:

    Out of curiosity, what did they say? I'm in the same boat, in Derbyshire and just bought another cabinet to fit. 

    Cheers

    They have asked me to inform them of any changes I make in the future. It’s worth dropping them an e-mail just to save any problems mate.

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    1 hour ago, labstaff said:

    Cheers for the reply. Once I fit it I'll drop them an email.

    No worries mate.

    Is it butterley Hall that issued your cert? If so send me a pm and I’ll send you the email address I’ve got for the admin officer there.

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