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Swedens non existent problem


Rewulf
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Don’t know what the problem is, I have seen it on the news that we are a multicultural, integrated society, it must be true because most of the TV adverts show a typical married couple as being of mixed race, and most of the news readers now seem to-be of African or Asian origin, so it looks like we are all getting on just fine.  :yes:   

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2 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

I think the sooner the left and deep establishment in the West admits there is a problem, the sooner it can be tackled, it would also shut the far right down, who are feeding off the space left when governents  turn a blind eye to any tricky issues that the left don't want to admit to, it's counterproductive to having an inclusive and fair society for all.

I applaud your optimism Sir and hope your optimism is well placed for the benefit of everyone.

 

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Just now, old man said:

I applaud your optimism Sir and hope your optimism is well placed for the benefit of everyone.

 

Amen to that, unfortunately, if things continue as they have been, I'm afraid we both know it's not going to happen, the deep establishment which includes university's and schools, politics and main stream media would take years to change.

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I've been an ex-pat for about the last 20 years, living and working on 3 different continents. And I'll happily admit to being racist. I wasn't when I set off on my travels - in fact, quite the opposite. But 2 decades of dealing on day to day basis with people from other cultures has educated me, and I know that the world isn't just one big melting pot and the idea that you can just throw masses of people together is fundamentally flawed. It's no accident that virtually all of these news-headlining war-torn countries and regions.....Burundi, Sudan, Iraq, Syria, Balkans, Ukraine, Lebanon, Jyanmar, Sri Lanka, etc, etc..are home to different groups who share the same geographical landspace. For periods everything is fine, and then it all kicks off again, and so on and so forth in cycles that stretch back into antiquity. And that's because as humans we're hard-wired to be tribal.

Sorry, but my opinion is that it was, and continues to be, a terrible betrayal of the people of Europe that huge masses from alien cultures have been, and are continuing to be,  allowed in. Nothing against the immigrants themselves, but by letting them in the politicians have sown the potential for  brand new internecine conflicts a la Syria, Lebanon, Nigeria, etc, that were never even a possibility when Britain, France, Sweden, Italy were populated by the indigenous British, French.Swedes or Italians. But if course,  we're assured that we're beyond all that now. We're far too civilized to split into racial antagonistic groupings.  Well, we'll see.That's what the Syrians and Iraqis thought too for most of the 20th and 21st centurues.

Human nature is a kicker. Enoch Powell was crucified for his rivers of blood speech. But Powell wasn't some knuckle-dragging racist. He was a classically educated scholar who knew his history, and he was warning that history has a very unfortunate record when it comes to cramming peoples  together into the same political space. Was he right or wrong? Too early to say really. But our children or grandchildren will have a better idea.

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6 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

I've been an ex-pat for about the last 20 years, living and working on 3 different continents. And I'll happily admit to being racist. I wasn't when I set off on my travels - in fact, quite the opposite. But 2 decades of dealing on day to day basis with people from other cultures has educated me, and I know that the world isn't just one big melting pot and the idea that you can just throw masses of people together is fundamentally flawed. It's no accident that virtually all of these news-headlining war-torn countries and regions.....Burundi, Sudan, Iraq, Syria, Balkans, Ukraine, Lebanon, Jyanmar, Sri Lanka, etc, etc..are home to different groups who share the same geographical landspace. For periods everything is fine, and then it all kicks off again, and so on and so forth in cycles that stretch back into antiquity. And that's because as humans we're hard-wired to be tribal.

Sorry, but my opinion is that it was, and continues to be, a terrible betrayal of the people of Europe that huge masses from alien cultures have been, and are continuing to be,  allowed in. Nothing against the immigrants themselves, but by letting them in the politicians have sown the potential for  brand new internecine conflicts a la Syria, Lebanon, Nigeria, etc, that were never even a possibility when Britain, France, Sweden, Italy were populated by the indigenous British, French.Swedes or Italians. But if course,  we're assured that we're beyond all that now. We're far too civilized to split into racial antagonistic groupings.  Well, we'll see.That's what the Syrians and Iraqis thought too for most of the 20th and 21st centurues.

Human nature is a kicker. Enoch Powell was crucified for his rivers of blood speech. But Powell wasn't some knuckle-dragging racist. He was a classically educated scholar who knew his history, and he was warning that history has a very unfortunate record when it comes to cramming peoples  together into the same political space. Was he right or wrong? Too early to say really. But our children or grandchildren will have a better idea.

I can't see anything you've posted that would fit the definition of being racist, obviously I don't know your views on everything but think just about everything you've posted in your post is common sense and obvious to anyone who wants to objectively and honestly think about immigration, it's a sad but true reflecion of the human race, I think one of the reasons we're seeing far more issues in the UK today than at any other time is the shear scale and number of immigrants coming in, many have set up here and effectively made their own community's without integrating at all, it can only end in conflict in many cases.

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14 hours ago, Retsdon said:

I've been an ex-pat for about the last 20 years, living and working on 3 different continents. And I'll happily admit to being racist. I wasn't when I set off on my travels - in fact, quite the opposite. But 2 decades of dealing on day to day basis with people from other cultures has educated me, and I know that the world isn't just one big melting pot and the idea that you can just throw masses of people together is fundamentally flawed. It's no accident that virtually all of these news-headlining war-torn countries and regions.....Burundi, Sudan, Iraq, Syria, Balkans, Ukraine, Lebanon, Jyanmar, Sri Lanka, etc, etc..are home to different groups who share the same geographical landspace. For periods everything is fine, and then it all kicks off again, and so on and so forth in cycles that stretch back into antiquity. And that's because as humans we're hard-wired to be tribal.

Sorry, but my opinion is that it was, and continues to be, a terrible betrayal of the people of Europe that huge masses from alien cultures have been, and are continuing to be,  allowed in. Nothing against the immigrants themselves, but by letting them in the politicians have sown the potential for  brand new internecine conflicts a la Syria, Lebanon, Nigeria, etc, that were never even a possibility when Britain, France, Sweden, Italy were populated by the indigenous British, French.Swedes or Italians. But if course,  we're assured that we're beyond all that now. We're far too civilized to split into racial antagonistic groupings.  Well, we'll see.That's what the Syrians and Iraqis thought too for most of the 20th and 21st centurues.

Human nature is a kicker. Enoch Powell was crucified for his rivers of blood speech. But Powell wasn't some knuckle-dragging racist. He was a classically educated scholar who knew his history, and he was warning that history has a very unfortunate record when it comes to cramming peoples  together into the same political space. Was he right or wrong? Too early to say really. But our children or grandchildren will have a better idea.

Cracking post. I sincerely believe that true integration very rarely happens, or at the least takes generations. Us whites, going back generations, had no intention of integrating with the indigenous peoples or their cultures when we extended our empires; we mostly went there with other intentions which are recorded in history. 

Today, people of many cultures, races and colours emigrate for whatever reason, all over the world, but rather than integrate into that country's traditions, cultures and beliefs, insist on expressing their own to the exclusion of all else.  It isn't integration. They build their own schools, their own shops and their own places of worship and abide by their own laws and in some cases ignore those of their adoptive country. It isn't integration There are schools in the UK ( some are unregistered ) run by certain faiths or denominations, teaching absolutely nothing about UK culture or history, nor what they need to know to function collectively in the UK, but only about their own culture and beliefs. Many go to same faith only schools and mix with same faith only people. That isn't integration. 

The USA was built by immigrants......Germans, Dutch, Scot's, Irish, Italians, English, Mexicans, Russians, Africans etc etc etc. Even with a comparatively blank canvas to work on ( if you don't include the indigenous people...whom the whites regarded as savages. Sound familiar? ) It took generations for this melting pot of cultures and faiths to settle down to an acceptable level, but even now many of those who call themselves Americans with surnames ending in Schmitt or O'Leary for example, don't approve of immigrants. Remember the Korean boat people? There has even been a serious suggestion of building a wall at the Mexican/USA border.  Many British ex pats in Spain build and congregate only in their own communities. It isn't integration.

I love the fact that in the UK I can sample genuine Greek, Thai, Italian etc etc food from establishments owned and run by the relevant genuine nationality; it's wonderful. Locally we have Chinese immigrants; they own and run the local takeaway; their children went to school with mine; the mother joined the local golf club and plays for the womens team. We have Poles; their children go to the local school. We have third generation Italians and second generation Germans, some of the latter are my friends. They all integrated into the local community and are, and regard themselves, as British. No one has ever suggested they should forget their ancestry, but they integrated. I made many friends from the African and Indian communities through sport in the 1980's. They all integrated and went to British mainstream schools. 

If I emigrated with young children I wouldn't be searching for a British school; I would be more than willing to embrace that country and it's way of life wholly. There are races living in the UK who consider the British as nothing more than infidels. How can that be combatted if those races resent and exclude their adoptive country? 

Integration can work, but it takes time and effort from all concerned. Building your own exclusive community in your adopted country while excluding all else isn't the way to go.

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Two excellent posts from Retsdon and Scully, did anyone do a double take when Retsdon said he was a racist ?
Is it a shocking thing to admit to in our society? what even is racism anymore ?

If you stand in the street and shout, I hate black people, or I hate gay people, you stand a very good chance of being arrested and charged with a hate crime, for which you can be imprisoned.
If you stand in the street and shout, I hate white people, or I hate straight people, you will get the odd snigger perhaps.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-43342058
Im not going to condone the actions of 2 very drunk sounding 18 years olds.
But is that a measured response to what happened?  I asked my daughter (17 and about to go to uni herself) what would be an appropriate punishment for the 2 lads.
At least 1 year in prison, she replied !
Now, I was somewhat surprised, her being a member of the conservative party, a Brexit supporter and politics student.
She said that that level of racism cannot be ignored.

We have ingrained within our society, that you are not allowed to have an opinion, or worse, voice an opinion, that goes against the mainstream liberal ideology.
At best ,you risk being ignored, perhaps 'shamed' for your forthright views.
At worst, you will end up in a cell, with possibly a violent criminal as a 'bunk mate', your career, and life in tatters, like the 2 boys above.

You cant make someone integrate into our society, there is no law to compel them to do so.
But there are plenty of laws to make sure YOU cant complain about it.

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56 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Two excellent posts from Retsdon and Scully, did anyone do a double take when Retsdon said he was a racist ?
Is it a shocking thing to admit to in our society? what even is racism anymore ?

If you stand in the street and shout, I hate black people, or I hate gay people, you stand a very good chance of being arrested and charged with a hate crime, for which you can be imprisoned.
If you stand in the street and shout, I hate white people, or I hate straight people, you will get the odd snigger perhaps.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-43342058
Im not going to condone the actions of 2 very drunk sounding 18 years olds.
But is that a measured response to what happened?  I asked my daughter (17 and about to go to uni herself) what would be an appropriate punishment for the 2 lads.
At least 1 year in prison, she replied !
Now, I was somewhat surprised, her being a member of the conservative party, a Brexit supporter and politics student.
She said that that level of racism cannot be ignored.

We have ingrained within our society, that you are not allowed to have an opinion, or worse, voice an opinion, that goes against the mainstream liberal ideology.
At best ,you risk being ignored, perhaps 'shamed' for your forthright views.
At worst, you will end up in a cell, with possibly a violent criminal as a 'bunk mate', your career, and life in tatters, like the 2 boys above.

You cant make someone integrate into our society, there is no law to compel them to do so.
But there are plenty of laws to make sure YOU cant complain about it.

Very good point raised rewulf, we do not live in a free country, also why is one groups characteristics more important than another? All that does is build resentment in society towards the group the law is trying to protect, it's counterintuitive

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On 09/03/2018 at 18:19, old'un said:

Don’t know what the problem is, I have seen it on the news that we are a multicultural, integrated society, it must be true because most of the TV adverts show a typical married couple as being of mixed race, and most of the news readers now seem to-be of African or Asian origin, so it looks like we are all getting on just fine.     

Again, part of the metropolitan elitist agenda who seem to think that everyone should live in a society like Haringey in London where the recycling bins have instructions in 14 different languages.

In reality we have perhaps 5% of the population being black, or partly black and around 7 or 8% of Asian origin, yet all the broadcast media news channels appear to employ Asians for about 40 or 50% of their correspondents and presenters. What's really odd is that TV ads seem to have a similar proportion who are black or partly black and hardly any Asians at all.

It must be very confusing for those intergalactic aliens when they monitor our TV channels from space and then, when they land, they find 80-90% of the population have white skins.

I don't have a problem with black or Asian people but I don't like anyone trying to force feed me with diversity and multiculturalism.

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15 hours ago, Yellow Bear said:

I see Vince Cable is busy again at the limp damps conference saying in effect that anyone who voted for Brexit is a nostalgic racist.

Yes, I saw that too.

I think old Vince claimed the Brexit vote was 'driven by nostalgia' for a world where 'faces where white'. What the old fool seems to have totally missed is that the vast majority of Europeans have white faces, and Brexit was about leaving a rather nasty and quite sinister political union. 

There's no fool like an old fool. 

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8 minutes ago, poontang said:

Yes, I saw that too.

I think old Vince claimed the Brexit vote was 'driven by nostalgia' for a world where 'faces where white'. What the old fool seems to have totally missed is that the vast majority of Europeans have white faces, and Brexit was about leaving a rather nasty and quite sinister political union. 

There's no fool like an old fool. 

It's an old tactic used by the left, if an argument can't be won using reasoned debate and genuine facts, call the other side racist, unfortunately for genuine victims of racism it's losing it's effectiveness due to the constant false or inappropriate use of the accusation.

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9 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

It's an old tactic used by the left, if an argument can't be won using reasoned debate and genuine facts, call the other side racist, unfortunately for genuine victims of racism it's losing it's effectiveness due to the constant false or inappropriate use of the accusation.

If the fight against racism is about getting rid of bias against non whites, and other minorities.
Its not going to work by being biased against whites and majorities.

The only thing you are going to do, is create more racism-resentment-hate-anger-violence on BOTH sides.
This was starkly realised last year in the US with anti right groups like antifa and BLM provoking the pretty dormant far right back into action, with the kind of violence that is normally attributed to the latter.
 

The rise of far right parties and ideology, is a DIRECT RESULT of socialist policies, and the meddling of certain parties who bank on strife amongst nations.
You can blame it on racism, but its the perceived, and the real racism shown toward disgruntled people that has allowed it to flourish.
Think about it, if Trump, Brexit and Italy came about because the majorities who voted it all in were all racists, as the democrats/remainers/socialists would like people to believe ,then we have a real problem.
But its not, its just ordinary people who feel like the cards are being stacked against them, they do not feel like they are being treated fairly.
I am not saying for one minute racism doesnt exist, but the massive reaction when ordinary people step across the ever moving red line is a sure fire way to create more of them.

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5 hours ago, Rewulf said:

If the fight against racism is about getting rid of bias against non whites, and other minorities.
Its not going to work by being biased against whites and majorities.

The only thing you are going to do, is create more racism-resentment-hate-anger-violence on BOTH sides.
This was starkly realised last year in the US with anti right groups like antifa and BLM provoking the pretty dormant far right back into action, with the kind of violence that is normally attributed to the latter.
 

The rise of far right parties and ideology, is a DIRECT RESULT of socialist policies, and the meddling of certain parties who bank on strife amongst nations.
You can blame it on racism, but its the perceived, and the real racism shown toward disgruntled people that has allowed it to flourish.
Think about it, if Trump, Brexit and Italy came about because the majorities who voted it all in were all racists, as the democrats/remainers/socialists would like people to believe ,then we have a real problem.
But its not, its just ordinary people who feel like the cards are being stacked against them, they do not feel like they are being treated fairly.
I am not saying for one minute racism doesnt exist, but the massive reaction when ordinary people step across the ever moving red line is a sure fire way to create more of them.

Spot on

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  • 2 years later...

I know its an old thread, but I found this Spectator piece interesting.
Its taken a while , and its been barely reported over here , but crime has continued to rise and 'evolve' in Sweden.
But maybe the Swedes are beginning to realise they really do have a problem...

Sweden’s new epidemic: clan-based crime

A summer of violence has left even jaded Swedes reeling

From magazine issue: 19 September 2020

 

Stockholm

‘We have an obvious problem,’ admitted the Swedish Prime Minister Stefan Löfven recently. He was referring not to the Covid pandemic, but to a summer of crime that has left even jaded Swedes reeling in disbelief. There are regular bombings, hand grenade attacks and shootings. Young men are killing each other at a horrific rate — ten times that of Germany. The feeling is growing that the government has completely lost control. Yet, while Löfven has finally acknowledged the existence of the problem, he still seems in denial about its true nature.

Last month in Botkyrka, south of Stockholm, a 12-year-old girl walking her dog was killed by a stray bullet from a gang shooting — and in a TV interview her friends explained that shootings are simply part of daily life in their neighbourhood. One child said that she hears gunfire from her bedroom window almost every night. And this is perhaps what’s most shocking for older Swedes: how resigned the children in these areas are; how much they’ve grown used to the violence.

For years, the government’s position has been that the notion of rising crime is fake news

It is all too much for Mats Löfving, the deputy national police chief, who earlier this month decided to speak plainly about the nature of the criminals he and his colleagues are fighting. There are at least 40 family-based criminal networks — or clans — in Sweden, he confirmed: immigrants who came to the country ‘solely for the purpose of organising and systematising crime’. According to Löfving, they make their money through drug-trafficking and extortion and ‘have a great capacity for violence’.

The interview was a bombshell. The Prime Minister has always tried to talk about crime as a socioeconomic problem — and he stuck to this line in response to Löfving, saying that ‘I do not want to link crime to ethnicity’. — a government mantra which insinuates that even asking questions about the link between crime and immigration is xenophobic. But the issue, of course, is not skin colour. It’s about the problem of an imported type of crime: families from non-Swedishcultures who stay in their own circles and prey on Swedes of all ethnicities. These are people who have set up parallel systems of government that challenge the Swedish state — something that politicians cannot bring themselves to acknowledge.

Conflicts between rival criminals last month escalated to a point where gangs took an unparalleled move to establish their dominance. Masked and armed men set up roadblocks, and controlled cars entering certain neighbourhoods in Gothenburg. Streets were deserted as the gangs ordered residents to stay inside. The headmaster of a local school put it bluntly: ‘Checkpoints controlled by criminal militia are something I last saw in Afghanistan. I never thought it would become a reality in Sweden.’ Meanwhile, home visits from doctors have been suspended in the area for safety reasons; and staff from care services for the elderly and disabled are being escorted on their rounds by security guards.

The government’s solution to problems like these has long been to deny that they are there. When people began to talk about ‘no-go zones’ a few years ago, the phrase caused so much anxiety in official circles that the crime spots were dubbed ‘go-go zones’ in a PR initiative. For years, the government’s position, as well as the narrative reiterated by large parts of the media, has been that the notion of rising crime is some kind of fake news. Based on this idea, the state has set up a PR budget and employed staff to write ‘fact-checking’ posts to deny international reporting about what’s going on. One of the ‘myths’ busted is that shootings have increased.

Only weeks ago, Löfven famously claimed that even if there were a crime problem, it was nothing to do with immigration. Annie Lööf, leader of Sweden’s Centre party, says that ‘many of these gangs and their families have been in Sweden for decades’ — as if this would contradict the notion that immigration and failed integration is a root cause of the problem. Löfven has even pointed to upper-class youths in a small suburb of Stockholm as an explanation for gang murders, maintaining that rich kids’ consumption of recreational drugs is creating a demand that leads to shootings in poorer areas. Can he really think that drug abuse among a small fraction of the country’s youth explains why there are ten times more gang murders in Sweden than in neighbouring countries?

But although it is willing to scapegoat affluent teenagers, the government has so far remained silent about the changing nature of the crime, some of it so grotesque that it’s hard to discuss. At the end of August, two teenage boys were abducted, raped and abused for hours at a cemetery outside Stockholm. When police found them they had been stabbed and buried alive in a pit. Somehow they survived.

These deplorable acts of aggression now have a name in Sweden. So-called ‘humiliation robberies’ are on the rise, and the victims are often children and young people who are not just mugged — mainly by immigrant youths — but also subjected to all kinds of horrifying and degrading treatment.

Because of the threat to children, Swedish parents are beginning to wake up. They’re beginning to realise that their children are not growing up in the low-crime country they themselves knew — and they feel that the time to talk honestly about it has long since arrived.

WRITTEN BYPaulina Neuding

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13 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

I know its an old thread, but I found this Spectator piece interesting.
Its taken a while , and its been barely reported over here , but crime has continued to rise and 'evolve' in Sweden.
But maybe the Swedes are beginning to realise they really do have a problem...

Sweden’s new epidemic: clan-based crime

A summer of violence has left even jaded Swedes reeling

From magazine issue: 19 September 2020

 

WRITTEN BYPaulina Neuding

And if our powers that be are not careful then this will be our future - we already have no go zones in the UK

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I have a friend whose son lives and works in Sweden. She visits her grandchildren quite regularly, and I think ( according to her fb page ) is out there now, visiting her six month old second grandchild whom she had been unable to visit due to Covid restrictions. 
She says she wouldn’t want to live there ( especially anywhere near Malmo ) as serious crime is a real problem there. 
She is hoping her son will leave eventually. 

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2 hours ago, Scully said:

I have a friend whose son lives and works in Sweden. She visits her grandchildren quite regularly, and I think ( according to her fb page ) is out there now, visiting her six month old second grandchild whom she had been unable to visit due to Covid restrictions. 
She says she wouldn’t want to live there ( especially anywhere near Malmo ) as serious crime is a real problem there. 
She is hoping her son will leave eventually. 

Any where near Rosengarde?

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