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shotgun reloading. Developing loads.


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Hi gentlemen. 

I am coming back into loading for my 10 bore after a fairly lengthy period of not really doing much. 

In the past I just took my loads from data books like Lyman and BPI. 

more recently and perhaps more frustrating is downloading data from clay and game for loads with components they don't hold in stock.

What I want to know is how are these loads developed? Often these manuals mention a load that looks great but one component or another is unattainable. Is there a resource that I can use to work out the effect on a load of swapping one wad for another, one case for another, adjustment of shot sizes and weight of charge, addition or omission of buffer, or even substitution of powder types? 

I have just seen a post in another thread by cookoff where he has estimated the pressure of a load given by another forum user, is that from some clever calculation? 

there must be some science/maths behind developing the loads that go into these reloading manuals, can anyone recommend a book etc that explains how to work up a load or the effects of tinkering with already developed loads? 

 

Thanks in advance. 

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no, i researched it. i got the data directly from source using american components. i litterally looked up reloading data from BPI and found the exact load.

i did not guess. 

i litterally grabbed the data. 

7 minutes ago, motty said:

I don't know the answer, but I think the only real way to know how a load is performing is to load some and send them off for testing.

this is absolutely true. test barrels tell the truth. 

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1 hour ago, cookoff013 said:

no, i researched it. i got the data directly from source using american components. i litterally looked up reloading data from BPI and found the exact load.

i did not guess. 

i litterally grabbed the data. 

this is absolutely true. test barrels tell the truth. 

Can individual people buy test barrels if so would you have a link also do the barrels work for multiple calibers 

 Just thinking about the cost of regular proof of the loads maybe viable to get one 

all the best 

of 

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Have you looked at the cost of cartridge testing with clay game?

I learned the hardway.  Many years ago I tried to develop a load for a short chambered 10 bore. I followed the advice of a well known name but used modern components. I got a hell of a kick and a minor bulge in a choke barrel. I sent off to the proof house with disturbing results. The proof house told me the pressures were well over and at the levels they used to proof test guns!

In hindsight I was lucky not to be injured and have learned my lesson. I no longer mess about and would test first if I was inclined to do so.

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I have used the cartridge testing facility at Clay Game, i gave them the details of the load i wanted to do and they loaded and tested it for me, and it worked out ok.

I plan to send them details of another load to do soon for the 10bore using SSB150 powder.

I too have tried a load from internet data.....and wished i had'nt, no damage to me or my gun but, *%&$'en hell:no::no: i did'nt fire the second shell that was cut up and dismantled.

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Given known data, and lots of knowledge, you can estimate what the change of components implies in terms of pressure and speed changes (e.g. a b&p wad generates circa 60 bar less than a Gualandi, if you change from a 616 to a 615 you need to add 0.05g powder, etc.) But is impossible to guess or estimate data for a brand new load, unless you've tested many hundreds of shells (for intended powder).

I use c&g testing facility a lot and have found data is accurate compared to my existing data so, no complaints.

Don't be shy in testing, lots of info can be extrapolated from the data you receive

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i would advise against buying a pressure barrel. 

they are expensive, need calibration loads, techs to run the stuff, 

i use a national body and am extatic with the results. i do not have any complaints and have clear aspects with the data.

also i have sent stuff in north of the limits. but i litterally invented shells and re-tested to bring them in line with normal.

i hasten to add, i would not use clay and game. call me sceptical and all.

 

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i test before i do anything, its just normal for me. 

a test barrel tests pressure. but what is not discussed what shells need to be tested. if you guys didnt realise, before i did my massive nontoxic i actually tested the shells beforehand in a short experiment assay. then i did my massive nontox project. so i could theory fire any payload from 25g steel to 36g lead and 36g tungsten etc. 

test barrels tell truth. they never lie. in an ideal world we`d test charges of powder up untill the stats or pressures go bad. but thats expensive. i also learned that powders really perform well when they have a lot of resistance on them (ie maximum payload). to reduce the variability at either end of the assay, keep the powder charge within 10% of the manufacturers optimal.

it also good to get alot of data to see where or what range it performs in. and just use that really. incidently that assay test with all the nontoxics actually give out alot of secrets that you guys dont realise. i used a single powder charge and changed the payloads by using the different density shot in the same (steel rated wad, mind). 

this was an test assay to see the pressures, and to see how well the power is extracted and see how much power is avilable. also i thew in some loads to test to extract all the energy to see how much power is available for that charge, and therefore how much energy per grain of powder. there will be a write up at somepoint. but the bang has always fascinated me. i tried and partially succeeded in de-bunking a few myths, (i think) . there were a few enlightening facts, and powder really is funny stuff. armed with this info, i can make a very educated guess with that powder and payload. i also think i can apply the same concept like getting a cartridge like for like with nontox, and then re- test. 
 

it helps me investigate loads. and i got a good idea where i`m at, i could probably bang out a few decent nontoxic shells cheaper than using alliant steel in obscene quantities to shoot bonkers speeds at rather large pressures. 
i can say that clay game helped because i was able to buy in very economic quantities, i managed to buy enough tungsten for small proof runs. 
 

 

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4 hours ago, greenergp said:

I have used the cartridge testing facility at Clay Game, i gave them the details of the load i wanted to do and they loaded and tested it for me, and it worked out ok.

I plan to send them details of another load to do soon for the 10bore using SSB150 powder.

I too have tried a load from internet data.....and wished i had'nt, no damage to me or my gun but, *%&$'en hell i did'nt fire the second shell that was cut up and dismantled.

I personally wouldn't get them to load it for you. The final shells could be a long way off from what you may load yourself.

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I get them to do it because i know more or less exactly how much it is going to cost.

Sending to the proof house would be better but it would cost a lot more trying to get them from Scotland to Birmingham.

Out of interest does anyone know the costs of testing cartridges, as well as how to get them down there, courier?

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Wow. Thanks for all your replies guys. 

I have seen the facility at Clay and Game for testing and intend to use it but I didn't want to be just stabbing in the dark. 

If there was a more comprehensive loading resource than what I have seen I was hoping that with a bit of research I could work up a load, get it tested by C&G and then pattern test etc etc. 

I'll give C&G a ring and have a chat with them too. 

4 hours ago, cookoff013 said:

i test before i do anything, its just normal for me. 

a test barrel tests pressure. but what is not discussed what shells need to be tested. if you guys didnt realise, before i did my massive nontoxic i actually tested the shells beforehand in a short experiment assay. then i did my massive nontox project. so i could theory fire any payload from 25g steel to 36g lead and 36g tungsten etc. 

test barrels tell truth. they never lie. in an ideal world we`d test charges of powder up untill the stats or pressures go bad. but thats expensive. i also learned that powders really perform well when they have a lot of resistance on them (ie maximum payload). to reduce the variability at either end of the assay, keep the powder charge within 10% of the manufacturers optimal.

it also good to get alot of data to see where or what range it performs in. and just use that really. incidently that assay test with all the nontoxics actually give out alot of secrets that you guys dont realise. i used a single powder charge and changed the payloads by using the different density shot in the same (steel rated wad, mind). 

this was an test assay to see the pressures, and to see how well the power is extracted and see how much power is avilable. also i thew in some loads to test to extract all the energy to see how much power is available for that charge, and therefore how much energy per grain of powder. there will be a write up at somepoint. but the bang has always fascinated me. i tried and partially succeeded in de-bunking a few myths, (i think) . there were a few enlightening facts, and powder really is funny stuff. armed with this info, i can make a very educated guess with that powder and payload. i also think i can apply the same concept like getting a cartridge like for like with nontox, and then re- test. 
 

it helps me investigate loads. and i got a good idea where i`m at, i could probably bang out a few decent nontoxic shells cheaper than using alliant steel in obscene quantities to shoot bonkers speeds at rather large pressures. 
i can say that clay game helped because i was able to buy in very economic quantities, i managed to buy enough tungsten for small proof runs. 
 

 

Sounds fascinating. I look forward to seeing your write up. 

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