one size fits all

[motty]

14 hours ago, Continental Shooter said:

Yeah, steel will be but I got such good results with ITX (and good few shots) that I will use it for geese, #2 is what I'll go for. I'll be trying steel #3-2 as a duck shell.  I managed to acquire some A Steel, and want to try some 2 3/4, 7/8 oz shells and see how it goes as this is uncharted territory for me. Is steel #2 not a tad too big for ducks? Would #3 not be a good compromise(I personally dont shoot past 35-40 yds)? 

Steel 2s are not too big for ducks, but are not really necessary at the sort of ranges you would be shooting.

I take it you want to try 7/8 ounce of steel for speed reasons. I personally would not bother. It isn't really worth the extra powder. Save powder and go for a heavier load.

[Guest cookoff013]

alliant steel really should be 36g +

[Smokersmith]

1 hour ago, cookoff013 said:

alliant steel really should be 36g +

I don't agree with this, and nor would the author of Lightning Steel, or those who have successfully used the loads within.

When I first started loading I killed a lot of foreshore duck with hulls off the clay ranges and 28g of 3's.

Nowadays I buy my 'lesser' steel loads off the shelf and save the powder for the bigger stuff .. but that's due to cost, not effectiveness.

[Guest cookoff013]

I was being critique of the internal ballistics. Not the fact anyone can shoot 5/8oz at a billion fps.

[Smokersmith]

Please help with what's wrong with the internal ballistics of the load I used.

I was getting about 1450fps from memory on a 28g load of Steel 3's, clean burning, patterning well and killing most of what I shot at. The pressures were less than the bigger loads (36g to 42g) loads I was using.

For my practical purposes, this was fine.

[Guest cookoff013]

That's fine if you want to shoot £4 of powder and 10p of shot. I've loaded 32g loads and couldn't get the stuff to burn. 1450fps is easily achievable with normal powders, just not at really low psi. Alliance themselves only publish one load near 1oz and 1450fps. The next is nearly fifty. (50) grains of powder.! That is an abomination! That's getting so close to blackpowder volumes. It just doesn't burn right unless 36g + loads. It was designed for ! The weight seems to just allow more energy to be taken. Just because something leaves the barrel doesn't mean it's any good. One and a half ounce seems to settle alliant steel at 13000psi with only 33grains and a whole heap more energy and way more energy per grain of powder. 

I can get vectan A1 to shoot an ounce at the upper end of HP pressures.

Maybe I should rephrase, alliant steel really excels when 36g steel used.

No shell should need more than 30grains of powder

[Continental Shooter]

On 15/03/2018 at 15:07, motty said:

Steel 2s are not too big for ducks, but are not really necessary at the sort of ranges you would be shooting.

I take it you want to try 7/8 ounce of steel for speed reasons. I personally would not bother. It isn't really worth the extra powder. Save powder and go for a heavier load.

For Clarity: i am talking 20 bore....   so, the 36g  in 12 bore will relate to 26.8g  (418 gr)

So, that's what i thought.... but i am looking for a compromise load i can use as a first barrel for both ducks and geese. 

being a newbie to steel i am not fussy about speed... yet; i read enough post on pros and cons of the 1500+ fps loads and that will confuse anyone; so, decided i will field test both theory and make my mind up then. 

For now, since i voluntarily restrict my shooting range, i don't think speed will have a massive influence and i am not really fussy about the payload either so, if you have any suggestion or tested recipe with Steel or Longshot....i'm all ears 

 

[MAB1954]

On 3/15/2018 at 20:44, cookoff013 said:

That's fine if you want to shoot £4 of powder and 10p of shot. I've loaded 32g loads and couldn't get the stuff to burn. 1450fps is easily achievable with normal powders, just not at really low psi. Alliance themselves only publish one load near 1oz and 1450fps. The next is nearly fifty. (50) grains of powder.! That is an abomination! That's getting so close to blackpowder volumes. It just doesn't burn right unless 36g + loads. It was designed for ! The weight seems to just allow more energy to be taken. Just because something leaves the barrel doesn't mean it's any good. One and a half ounce seems to settle alliant steel at 13000psi with only 33grains and a whole heap more energy and way more energy per grain of powder. 

I can get vectan A1 to shoot an ounce at the upper end of HP pressures.

Maybe I should rephrase, alliant steel really excels when 36g steel used.

No shell should need more than 30grains of powder

In my gun I find Steel powder driving a steel payload between 1400-1500fps patterns well and works in the field, all the American recipes, I use, need more than 30 grains of powder. I have tried Longshot and Blue Dot powders, with lighter steel loads, but the patterns with 30 gram steel size 3 or 4 never come up to the standard of Steel powder or manufacturers loads. From what you say Vectan powders may be worth a try but limited load data has always put me off, where I live to send cartridges for testing is only an option once a year when I can hand deliver them to C&G at the Scottish Game Fair. I don't see the cost of about 40 grains of Steel as a show stopper but I would like to save it for my heavy goose loads and use something else for my 30 gram duck loads, just the supply of Steel is so problematic. Think I need to search the internet for Vectan.