Racist or not racist.

[Rewulf]

You may or may not have heard of the attack and subsequent death of an 18 year old Egyptian girl in my home town of Nottingham, called  Mariam Mustafa.

She had been the victim of repeated attacks and intimidation at the hands of a group of girls, her sisters leg had been broken in a previous attack.
However the police seem to have done little to nothing to apprehend the assailants or protect her.

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/689150/Nottingham-Mariam-Mustafa-dies-attack-group-of-women-shopping-centre

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/mariam-mustafa-female-egyptian-student-dies-weeks-after-racist-attack-in-nottingham-a3790791.html

The latest attack happened in broad daylight at a busy bus stop in the city centre, she was repeatedly punched in the head by a gang of up to 10 girls.
She boarded the bus to escape them, but they followed her on the bus, and tried to continue the attack, luckily someone prevented this, and the bus driver intervened eventually.
The bus company would later say that 'no incident took place on the bus' however private mobile phone footage showed this to be untrue, they also said at the time that, the on board CCTV was not working ,which may or may not be true.
https://www.nctx.co.uk/2018/03/a-statement-from-the-directors-of-nottingham-city-transport-regarding-mariam-mustafa/

She was admitted to hospital, but discharged, after feeling unwell, she was readmitted the next day, and put into an induced coma, dying 2 weeks later.
Post mortem results are 'inconclusive'

One girl has been arrested and released on bail.

https://egyptianstreets.com/2018/03/15/egyptian-student-beaten-to-death-in-nottingham-uk/

There is a glaring omission in most of  the above news reports, a few call it a racist attack, and one might assume that the perpetrators were white.
But they were all actually black girls.

https://stepfeed.com/an-egyptian-girl-in-uk-was-beaten-to-death-and-people-are-outraged-0549

I find it strange that a tragedy like this gets very little media attention when , if the assailants had been white, there would be far more national media outrage.
It also seems strange that, the police seem very reluctant to make arrests, they know who these girls are, and there is some insinuation that Mariams death had nothing to do with the attack !

I would be interested in your thoughts.

[hawkfanz]

i know exactly what you mean,some years ago my grandson then age 14 got beaten up by a black kid,police didn,t rate it as a racist crime,but the assailant was never caught.

[walshie]

My son and his mate got attacked by about 20 asians with bits of wood a good few years ago. That wasn't racist either apparently.

That was a Saturday night and by Monday they had closed the investigation - if you can call it that.

[grrclark]

I have seen quite a bit of coverage about this sad incident, it has certainly been on the front page of the BBC News website and has had many articles covering it in the Times.

The commentary that I have seen is that it was a likely racially aggravated attack, but there was no comment on the race of the perpetrators of the attack and I'm not sure that it is overly relevant really at this stage, racism is racism.

What I have seen is that one girl was arrested and a number of others are under active investigation.  The potential of a mistaken identity of the victim was reported yesterday in the Times.

I know that it has been very much front page news in Egypt with a great deal of scorn towards the UK and the apparent lack of action to deal with the earlier complaints sufficiently.

[Newbie to this]

It could just be a case of bullying which got way way out of hand and ended in the tragic death of this young girl. 

But the fact is if this was a group of white girls that carried out the attack, then 100% it would have been deemed racist.

Edited March 20, 2018 by Newbie to this

[Rewulf]

https://www.facebook.com/shama.latif1/videos/2050801105241824/

 

[Yellow Bear]

14 minutes ago, grrclark said:

but there was no comment on the race of the perpetrators of the attack and I'm not sure that it is overly relevant really at this stage, racism is racism.

Some people will still not see what is before them - in this PC world it is only racist if the perpetrator/s is/are white.  Person of colour on white is not considered as racist despite it happening to a large extent in the larger conurbations.

 

[panoma1]

I notice in the local newspaper whereas at one time when reporting on a crime, the newspaper would give a description of the alleged perpetrators, for example police are searching for two black, (or Asian) males early twenties etc etc.......lately they print, that the police are looking for two men in their early twenties or maybe ever two white men in their early twenties! Other than this no longer, as a matter of course do they refer to a suspects ethnicity!

It appears it's no longer acceptable (politically) for the media to refer to a suspects ethnicity, unless they are of white European appearance! It's about the media using, or being used? As a vehicle to censor what information the general public hears in order to control us into accepting a new order......the one that they determine is now acceptable.

I also notice a proliferation of adverts on TV and in the media showing mixed race families and single sex relationships..... which is also about the media using or being used? To censor the information they release in order to influence and control the way the public think! 

Or maybe I am just another conspiracy theorist?

[yod dropper]

I'm pretty certain that the murder of Damilola Taylor was later considered to be racist as he was Black-African and they were Black-Caribbean and this was a determining factor but at the time it didn't fit the narrative of racist attacks.  I don't think this one does either and I bet there are lots more cases.  You may recall the fairly recent furore of police brutality in the USA, that is white on black, but in one of these cases the senior officer on the scene was herself black though this barely made the public sphere.

That crime designated as hate crimes are considered worse and can carry a far heavier sentence seems a bit odd to me.  I seem to remember that the sentence could be 13 times longer just because of motive.  I also understand that Notts police have unilaterally declared misogyny a hate crime.  Not misandry though and therefore men do not have the same protection under the law.

You can't wonder some people mistrust what goes on.

Edited March 20, 2018 by yod dropper

[Rewulf]

3 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

I notice in the local newspaper whereas at one time when reporting on a crime, the newspaper would give a description of the alleged perpetrators, for example police are searching for two black, (or Asian) males early twenties etc etc.......lately they print, that the police are looking for two men in their early twenties or maybe ever two white men in their early twenties! Other than this no longer, as a matter of course do they refer to a suspects ethnicity!

It appears it's no longer acceptable (politically) for the media to refer to a suspects ethnicity, unless they are of white European appearance! It's about the media using, or being used? As a vehicle to censor what information the general public hears in order to control us into accepting a new order......the one that they determine is now acceptable.

I also notice a proliferation of adverts on TV and in the media showing mixed race families and single sex relationships..... which is also about the media using or being used? To censor the information they release in order to influence and control the way the public think! 

 

Definitely , Ive noticed this too.

4 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

 

Or maybe I am just another conspiracy theorist?

 

29 minutes ago, grrclark said:

 

The commentary that I have seen is that it was a likely racially aggravated attack, but there was no comment on the race of the perpetrators of the attack and I'm not sure that it is overly relevant really at this stage, racism is racism.

 

NOTTS POLICE -'There is an abundance of evidence and there is nothing at all to indicate that this is hate related or hate motivated'

Still no arrests though ?

https://www.nottinghampost.com/news/group-six-girls-were-involved-1359657

Just now, yod dropper said:

I'm pretty certain that the murder of Damilola Taylor was later considered to be racist as he was Black-African and they were Black-Caribbean and this was a determining factor but at the time it didn't fit the narrative of racist attacks.  I don't think this one does either and I bet there are lots more cases.  You may recall the fairly recent furore of police brutality in the USA, that is white on black, but in one of these cases the senior officer on the scene was herself black though this barely made the public sphere.

That crime designated as hate crimes are considered worse and can carry a far heavier sentence seems a bit odd to me.  I seem to remember that the sentence could be 13 times longer just because of motive.  I also understand that Notts police have unilaterally declared misogyny a hate crime.  Not misandry though and therefore men do not have the same protection under the law.

You can't wonder some people mistrust what goes.

You have hit the nail on the head there, they dont know how to deal with it.

[Retsdon]

1 minute ago, panoma1 said:

Or maybe I am just another conspiracy theorist?

No, there's definite 'grooming' (for want of a better word) of people's perceptions and language by the mainstream media. I don't visit the UK that often these days, and when I do I' find myself shocked at how people I've known for years and years will have changed the way they speak about certain topics. Like they don't say so and so's 'boyfriend' or 'girlfriend', they say 'partner'  - presumably to leave you guessing as to so and so's sexual orientation. And they'll even correct you if you use either of these words yourself. it's incredible. 

[Breastman]

34 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

It could just be a case of bullying which got way way out of hand and ended in the tragic death of this young girl. 

But the fact is if this was a group of white girls that carried out the attack, then 100% it would have been deemed racist.

This is the problem. If both parties involved are 'people of colour', or the perpetrator is, then the incident is usually* examined in what, until the early 00's, would've been considered the 'normal' way i.e. treated as an assault/attack/murder and then only if there was specific evidence that the victim was targeted because of their race that, that factor would also be taken into account.

Whereas now if the attacker(s) are white and the victims are 'people of colour' its automatically assumed and treated by the police/CPS as a racist attack.

*The incident where the drunk muslim girls (possibly recent Somali immigrants)  attacked a white couple making multiple references to the womans race while hitting her but it was not considered a racially motivated attack springs to mind. In fact I think they all got let off with the attack because the judge took into account it was the first time they'd been drunk, or some other nonsense.

[Gordon R]

Quote

I also notice a proliferation of adverts on TV and in the media showing mixed race families and single sex relationships..... which is also about the media using or being used?

Totally agree. That said, the choice of ethnic origins seems limited to the same few.

As for the original post. I have no time for racists or racism, but it does only seem to work the one way.

 

[figgy]

If it was one race of girls which has attacked a girl of another race its a racist attack in my book.

[100milesaway]

If Notts police had the guts to make a stand here and do the correct thing instead of hand wringing and doing nothing, maybe ,just maybe other forces may start taking on board just what is actually going on around them, or more to the point has been going on around them for years. from Auntie.

 

 

[Breastman]

2 minutes ago, figgy said:

If it was one race of girls which has attacked a girl of another race its a racist attack in my book.

That suggests the only reason people don't get on/fight is because of race surely??

A <insert race> person and <insert race> person can have a fight just because they don't like each other without their race being a motivation.

[team tractor]

I can’t stand bullying. I also can’t stand racism .

i have Hindu , black , seek friends etc and we get on great with obvious banter. 

If a person has been killed the bully’s need locking away with no excuses.

i know a lad who was punched in the face because he was a squaddy . He died 3 days later in a coma. The guy got 3 years  But it was an unprovoked Attack . 

The poor guy was defending his wife.

[Rewulf]

6 minutes ago, Breastman said:

 

*The incident where the drunk muslim girls (possibly recent Somali immigrants)  attacked a white couple making multiple references to the womans race while hitting her but it was not considered a racially motivated attack springs to mind. In fact I think they all got let off with the attack because the judge took into account it was the first time they'd been drunk, or some other nonsense.

I remember it well, the video footage was absolutely shocking, the level of violence used by the 'muslim women' was brutal.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8937856/Muslim-women-not-used-to-drinking-walk-free-after-attack-on-woman.html

Full fact see it differently, they walked because the boyfriend used unreasonable force !

https://fullfact.org/news/did-group-muslim-women-escape-jail-attack-because-they-were-not-used-alcohol/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09ZOENajsgs

 

4 minutes ago, 100milesaway said:

If Notts police had the guts to make a stand here and do the correct thing instead of hand wringing and doing nothing, maybe ,just maybe other forces may start taking on board just what is actually going on around them, or more to the point has been going on around them for years. from Auntie.

 

 

Notts police tread very softly around the various  minority races and cultures in and around the city, they are quite obviously directed to do so from higher up, I have first hand experiences of it.
So in this case, they are behaving as they normally do, and trying hard to brush it under the carpet, its disgusting.

[Vince Green]

There is so much evidence of the police having their hands tied by their own crime statistics. If they don't record a crime as a racist attack and they do the same for a hundred or a thousand similar incidents, at the end of the year their figures look much better. Racial incidents have gone down! yippee! pats on the back all round.

No racial tensions in this town, if you don't believe me look at the figures, statistics don't lie etc etc etc.  You can just hear them saying it  

[chesterse]

If you have too many rats in a cage they start eating each other!

[grrclark]

58 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

NOTTS POLICE -'There is an abundance of evidence and there is nothing at all to indicate that this is hate related or hate motivated'

Still no arrests though ?

https://www.nottinghampost.com/news/group-six-girls-were-involved-1359657

 

I had not seen that statement by the police, the articles I had read did suggest a racially motivated factor in the assault, but that is perhaps the journalists slant rather than the official message.

I am as baffled as you are as to why there are no further arrests when there appears to be sufficient evidence to identify the perpetrators, at face value i'm also baffled by the Police statement quoted above, but in the absence of any real detail I cannot argue one way or the other against it.

The last thing I had read was that it could be a mistaken identity for another girl who had been targeting the group (attackers) on social media.

1 hour ago, Yellow Bear said:

Some people will still not see what is before them - in this PC world it is only racist if the perpetrator/s is/are white.  Person of colour on white is not considered as racist despite it happening to a large extent in the larger conurbations.

Opinion or do you have a reference-able source to indicate this is policy?

[Newbie to this]

45 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Full fact see it differently, they walked because the boyfriend used unreasonable force !

Who are they trying to kid, he used reasonable force. If he had put all of them in hospital, he still would have used reasonable force (my opinion). The force that he used did not stop the attack, therefore his force was reasonable, if anything he didn't use enough force. Unreasonable force would be if the attack had stopped and he carried on attacking, which if you watch the Video he didn't?

Edited March 20, 2018 by Newbie to this

[Yellow Bear]

3 minutes ago, grrclark said:

Opinion or do you have a reference-able source to indicate this is policy?

No reference-able source unfortunately just personal experiences of acquaintances/work colleagues  who had been assaulted both in Manchester and Birmingham by groups of youths, of SE Asian ethnicity, when leaving sites late in the day due to work commitments.  Personally it was only abuse from young teenagers in Birmingham where we were told to ignore the abuse as the perpetrators would just play the race card and had the upper hand due to numbers.

[Penelope]

2 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

Who are they trying to kid, he used reasonable force. If he had put all of them in hospital, he still would have used reasonable force (my opinion). The force that he used did not stop the attack, therefore his force was reasonable, if anything he didn't use enough force. Unreasonable force would be if the attack had stopped and he carried on attacking, which if you watch the Video he didn't?

Exactly, I thought he was very restrained in what was a sustained violent attack. I don't think I could have been so restrained in the same circumstances.

[grrclark]

2 minutes ago, Yellow Bear said:

No reference-able source unfortunately just personal experiences of acquaintances/work colleagues  who had been assaulted both in Manchester and Birmingham by groups of youths, of SE Asian ethnicity, when leaving sites late in the day due to work commitments.  Personally it was only abuse from young teenagers in Birmingham where we were told to ignore the abuse as the perpetrators would just play the race card and had the upper hand due to numbers.

All of which is hugely disappointing to hear.

It may well be worth making a freedom of information request to the relevant forces and ask what the statistics are for race/hate related crimes and if they record the ethnicity/race of the perpetrators and victims.