Rewulf Posted March 23, 2018 Report Share Posted March 23, 2018 Im sure youve seen it in the media, but just in case http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-43478925 Thoughts ? In other news, police are searching for these 2 criminals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted March 23, 2018 Report Share Posted March 23, 2018 Why are they regarded as Criminals? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted March 23, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2018 1 minute ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: Why are they regarded as Criminals? One for making terrible baking programs and the other for being filthy rich and living the live any man would be jealous of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old'un Posted March 23, 2018 Report Share Posted March 23, 2018 (edited) Think they have arrested the ring leader Strange how peoples attitude to this type of picture as changed in such a short period of time. Edited March 23, 2018 by old'un Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted March 23, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2018 24 minutes ago, old'un said: Strange how peoples attitude to this type of picture as changed in such a short period of time. Very much so.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Ruler Posted March 23, 2018 Report Share Posted March 23, 2018 If we didn’t find this offensive during the war it shouldn’t be offensive now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toontastic Posted March 23, 2018 Report Share Posted March 23, 2018 44 minutes ago, Mighty Ruler said: If we didn’t find this offensive during the war it shouldn’t be offensive now. I bet if someone in a similar position had said "shoot all whites" the response on here would have been different. But saying "gas the Jews" is just treated as a joke. I don't for one minute think during the war someone saying publicly gas the Jews would have been acceptable, I bet a lot of people would have found it offensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Ruler Posted March 23, 2018 Report Share Posted March 23, 2018 I was referring to Freddie Starr, Prince Harry and Paul Hollywood, I can’t think of any Nazi pugs from the 40s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted March 23, 2018 Report Share Posted March 23, 2018 (edited) I find this case frightening, the implications it has for free speach are huge and far reaching, since when was it a criminal offence for someone to find something you said offensive, particularly when it's said in a satirical or comedic manner. I agree something said like that, is in my opinion, at best in poor taste and it's certainly not something I would say, but equally I beleive people should have the right to say something I disagree with and I should be allowed to say I disappove (obviously the same is true in reverse) that is what free speech is, this law has effectively said, your allowed to cause offence so long as it's not to anyone with a protected characteristic I.e race, gender, religion ect ect ect. Why is it right that some people are protected more than others and how is a lay person suppsed to keep up with and stay on the right side of the law? Also it's only going to cause more resentment to the very people the idiots in power think need more protection and in turn the far right will gain more ground, the echr needs doing away with and in my opinion, this governmet backed discrimination needs to stop before further harm is done to our society with more wedges driven between the people. Edited to add, it's telling that this very type of scenario was discussed in a recent thread started by rewulf, almost uncanny in timing and I think shows the knife edge this country is on with regards democracy and freedom of speach. Edited March 23, 2018 by 12gauge82 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted March 23, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2018 3 hours ago, toontastic said: I bet if someone in a similar position had said "shoot all whites" the response on here would have been different. But saying "gas the Jews" is just treated as a joke. I don't for one minute think during the war someone saying publicly gas the Jews would have been acceptable, I bet a lot of people would have found it offensive. I don't think the response would have been different at all, it's a joke. Even when it's said seriously, like when we had dead soldiers coming back, and disgusting placards waved around, calling for death to infidels, and slaughter British soldiers ect, we still didn't get our nickers twisted, so much so, we didn't even arrest them, never mind prosecute them for hate crimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Ruler Posted March 23, 2018 Report Share Posted March 23, 2018 I think it’s so they look even handed when they prosecute the likes of Anjem Choudary for hate speech but if a judge can’t distinguish between his ranting and a bad taste joke like this he shouldn’t be a judge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retsdon Posted March 23, 2018 Report Share Posted March 23, 2018 What's so unsettling about this case is that he was convicted of the offence of inciting racial hatred. But in the video, he clearly sets out the joke. His girlfriend dotes sickeningly on tbe pug claiming it's cute, so he sets out to turn the pug into the least cute thing he can think of - a Nazi. Admittedly it was probably a bit of a tasteless joke, but at no point was he advocating Nazism, in fact the opposite. I hope he gets his conviction overturned on appeal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted March 23, 2018 Report Share Posted March 23, 2018 I genuinely feel we are no longer living in a free and just society, all the lives lost in ww2 fighting for freedom and we're losing it to a minority of the left embedded within the establishment, I genuinely worry where it will eventually end up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted March 23, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2018 32 minutes ago, Mighty Ruler said: I think it’s so they look even handed when they prosecute the likes of Anjem Choudary for hate speech but if a judge can’t distinguish between his ranting and a bad taste joke like this he shouldn’t be a judge. Oh, you mean the one that started up all those jihadi groups, calling for the overthrow of the UK government, death threats to various public figures including the pope, the destruction of Israel, and praised the people who did 9/11 and the London tube bombing, amongst many many other treasonous and hate crimes, for 15 YEARS before we locked him up? Would that be the fella? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger-Mouse Posted March 23, 2018 Report Share Posted March 23, 2018 4 hours ago, toontastic said: I bet if someone in a similar position had said "shoot all whites" the response on here would have been different. But saying "gas the Jews" is just treated as a joke. I don't for one minute think during the war someone saying publicly gas the Jews would have been acceptable, I bet a lot of people would have found it offensive. “They say there’s safety in numbers. Yeah? Well tell that to six million Jews.” By Jimmy Carr. An offensive joke? I guess that's down to personal opinion. For me it's one of those jokes that draws an intake of breath upon hearing it for the first time, and then a chuckle. It's definitely edgy, but is it bad taste? Not to me. If he's trained his pug to raise it's paw to "Sieg heil" I have to admit my first reaction on seeing it executed would be to laugh. It would just be so incongruous seeing a dog throwing a Nazi salute. Hearing "Gas the Jews" and seeing the same reaction is a bit more disturbing. That does make me wonder, at least a little, on what the guy believes in. Having said all that, I might still laugh and just wonder afterwards. But without other evidence, I have to concede it might just be someone pushing the boundaries of humour/taste. I can happily laugh at part of it that others could find offensive so I can't really codemn others if they found all of it funny. Shoot all whites? You’d think every once in a while the cops would shoot a white kid just to make it look good. You’d think they’d look at their dead ***** calendar and go, “Oh my god, we’re up to 16. We gotta shoot a white kid quick.” “Which one?” “Ah, the first you see singing Cardi B.” Honestly, I wanna live in a world with real equality. I want to live in a world where an equal amount of white kids are shot every month. An equal world. I wanna see white mothers on TV cryin’, standin’ next to Al Sharpton, talkin’ about “We need justice for Chad! We need justice for Chad! He was just coming home from racquetball practice!” A Chris Rock joke that is causing some outrage atm. Offensive? Obviously to some. Personally I like the line “Ah, the first you see singing Cardi B.”, that made me chuckle. After that, well it's social commentary. I'm all for free speech, and if there's any doubt then I have to say he should not be prosecuted. Let's face it others have gotten away with far more threatening and radical speeches than just training a dog to throw a salute on a couple of dodgy commands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Ruler Posted March 24, 2018 Report Share Posted March 24, 2018 (edited) Yeah, that would be him, but being a trained lawyer he always stayed just the right side of the law. But it’s obvious to anyone his purpose was to encourage Jihad whereas anyone with common sense can see this Scottish bloke was just making a bad taste joke. Drop the attempts to prove the law is applied evenly and just go after the real terrorists be they Islamists or far right. Edited March 24, 2018 by Mighty Ruler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted March 24, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2018 6 minutes ago, Mighty Ruler said: Yeah, that would be him, but being a trained lawyer he always stayed just the right side of the law. But it’s obvious to anyone his purpose was to encourage Jihad whereas anyone with common sense can see this Scottish bloke was just making a bad taste joke. Drop the attempts to prove the law is applied evenly and just go after the real terrorists be they Islamists or far right. Im sorry M R, but he was nowhere near the right side of the law. And was struck off being a practicing solicitor because of that. The things he did and said, if we were to do, would get us decades in prison, he freely admitted being involved in the supplying and training of terrorists, and procurement of logistical support for them. Along with his pal omar bakri, they are probably responsible for many deaths, in this country and abroad. The fact that he, bakri and hooky hamza, could operate as they did , in plain view of the authorities ,is a damning indictment of how we have one law for them, and another for us. A man who teaches his dog to do something funny, faces possible jail time. Whilst a man like hamza, who taught, supplied and was, an active terrorist, had to be extradited to the US to be jailed, because we didnt have the balls to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted March 24, 2018 Report Share Posted March 24, 2018 30 minutes ago, Mighty Ruler said: Drop the attempts to prove the law is applied evenly and just go after the real terrorists be they Islamists or far right or far left Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
defender Posted March 26, 2018 Report Share Posted March 26, 2018 (edited) I can't help but picture this every time I see that headline Edited March 26, 2018 by defender Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted March 26, 2018 Report Share Posted March 26, 2018 I have not seen the clip in question nor read a lot of commentary about it, but I understand that a key factor in the judges ruling was that the chap who posted the video actually had a very large number of other videos, blogs and the like that were promoting hatred. The judge reasoned that in the case of the pug video it couldn't simply be dismissed as humour, in poor taste or otherwise, as it was clear from the wider body of evidence that it was, in the judges opinion, no more than a cynical attempt to draw people to his channel and the stunt with the pug was a superficial attempt to try and legitimise a message that he would not otherwise get away with. The veracity of that I honestly don't know, it's what i read in one article, but maybe those that have commented above are more aware? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted March 27, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2018 To be honest, Id never heard of the bloke before. Besides the fact that he was only really prosecuted for the pug video, after reading Grrs comment I had a quick look at his channel to see if he really does promote hatred. The first video I looked at was entitled 'Give minorities all your money' Draw your own conclusions of how much hate he promotes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted March 27, 2018 Report Share Posted March 27, 2018 I went to his channel with a view to watch some videos and better inform myself and I confess I lost the will to live at the thought. The whole affair does concern me that we are slipping ever steadily towards a far less tolerant regime than is healthy in an advanced and sophisticated democracy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted March 27, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2018 22 minutes ago, grrclark said: I went to his channel with a view to watch some videos and better inform myself and I confess I lost the will to live at the thought. The whole affair does concern me that we are slipping ever steadily towards a far less tolerant regime than is healthy in an advanced and sophisticated democracy. I agree, they are not entertaining, but more a cynical look at various issues. But Im not seeing any hate from him, just his rather ironic humour, its not for me, especially when Im distracted by his many face ornaments. To me, its a sad indication when there is money to prosecute people like him, and no money to investigate real crimes. Surely if Youtube allowed the video in the first place, with its built in report/complaint system, there was no need to take it further ? If he is being painted as a peddler of hate, why is his channel still up ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted March 27, 2018 Report Share Posted March 27, 2018 1 hour ago, Rewulf said: I agree, they are not entertaining, but more a cynical look at various issues. But Im not seeing any hate from him, just his rather ironic humour, its not for me, especially when Im distracted by his many face ornaments. To me, its a sad indication when there is money to prosecute people like him, and no money to investigate real crimes. Surely if Youtube allowed the video in the first place, with its built in report/complaint system, there was no need to take it further ?If he is being painted as a peddler of hate, why is his channel still up ? Maybe the videos, if there were any, that have been deemed to be inappropriate have been removed. Is the pug one still up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted March 27, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2018 15 minutes ago, grrclark said: Maybe the videos, if there were any, that have been deemed to be inappropriate have been removed. Is the pug one still up? Not on his channel, but theres plenty of other people with mirrors of it on youtube. This one is on the Washington Post channel of all places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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