Looks like Lincolnshire have kicked off compulsory doctors reports

[Scully]

58 minutes ago, Dave-G said:

And others have more? If BASC had all our voices they might possibly have a little more sway.

Problem is that shooting organisations can demand as much ice cream as they like but since when does the government need to oblige them? Particularly when shooters themselves split their voice so easily because government always gets their say.

I don't think shaming BASC is going to work, they nor other organisations cannot compel government to sway against the more populist idea of doing something/anything to restrict access to guns and make life difficult for (sic) nasty men who use guns. 

But that's simply not true, and the remainder of your post reveals exactly why it's not true. It wouldn't make any difference if there was just one organisation representing UK shooting simply because there just aren't enough of us to have enough of a voice to hold sway with any political party. If we were joined by anglers of all descriptions it wouldn't make any difference either because although our numbers would be impressive we would still all be required to sing from the same sheet in unity, on all issues, and that wont happen. 

I mentioned on this forum over three years ago, a conversation I had with a leading BASC rep', who told me that the ACPO had made up their mind on this and it was 'coming...and there's nothing we can do about it.' I even asked him, if that was so, then what was the point of me being a BASC member if the organisation couldn't deliver on what it claimed to be, and was told that it was a matter of damage limitation and that as a compromise ten year tickets would be in the offing. I didn't renew. 

No shooting organisation can stand up in the face of ever increasing incursions into shooting freedoms by a determined or indifferent political party, which is why I grow annoyed at the claims some make. They are after your money. It's that simple. 

It would be interesting to know how Lincolnshire police force could have prevented the suicides they claim is part of the reason for their insistence on GP's reports. Were any of those gun owners under treatment from a GP? If they're recent why didn't the procedures already in place highlight these gun owners? It would also be interesting to know why Lincolnshire police force think compulsory GP's reports will prevent any such occurrences in the future. 

[redial]

I don't think BASC or any other organisation have any clout.

Most shooting friends I know left BASC because of their  high membership fees. Only wanting insurance they looked elsewhere.

I wouldn't like to see BASC fold because of its WAGBI origins but this could potentially be a body blow to their future.

 

 

 

Edited April 9, 2018 by redial
Error

[Graham M]

BASC.......................... Acronym for Toothless Bulldog 

[Bazooka Joe]

Five days now, how long does it take to get legal advice...

[panoma1]

From memory a reported 350,000 people attended the Countryside rally in London to support hunting! What difference did it make? None! The government got their way! In this matter they will support the police, because politically it can do them no harm........shooting has no chance of influencing the government the only chance it has, is if a civil court rules the police are acting ultra vires, even then the government can overturn this by introducing legislation to achieve their police's agenda

So the real trick is in giving everyone what they want, but under the most advantageous terms achievable, such as:-

Continuous monitoring should open the door to lifelong certificates.

Public safety certification should be paid wholly out of the public purse, or a least partially funded from the public purse.

or

Initial one off fee should be payable to cover all requirements of lifetime continual monitoring.

Small fee payable every so many years for admin cost of updating photos etc.

Any agreement should be covered by legislation, not by "guidence" as if it the guidence doesn't fit the authorities agenda, they have already demonstrated they can/will just ignore it!

 

 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

11 hours ago, Bazooka Joe said:

Five days now, how long does it take to get legal advice...

They are all busy looking for new jobs!

[wymberley]

2 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

They are all busy looking for new jobs!

Take your point, but, nah, they'll be OK.

WAGBI/BASC survived Hungerford, survived Dunblane, survived the NTS fiasco and I've no doubt that they'll survive this WHEN it happens along with anything the Offensive Weapons Bill should it be enacted may throw at us. Why/how did/will they manage this? Simply because there was no requirement for them to actually DO anything. For a split second, I thought Brexit might just knock the possibility of the occurance of what I've always figured would happen sooner or later on the head, but then realised that that was just wishful thinking. As it appears from posts on here there's more shooters than available land. One of the two is decreasing whereas the other is doing the opposite, so losing a few members will not be of any great consequence.

No, the one that will do the damage, probably irrepairable, will be the' legislation' (for want of a better word) thrown at them/you which does require action and for which they're currently ill prepared. (Interestingly, on this point it's worth noting that Swift was not a complete Trojan Horse.) Additionally, it is probable that currently unlike a few years back, the cost will be such that this alone will reduce the number of shooters, never mind the BASC membership.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

23 minutes ago, wymberley said:

Take your point, but, nah, they'll be OK.

WAGBI/BASC survived Hungerford, survived Dunblane, survived the NTS fiasco and I've no doubt that they'll survive this WHEN it happens along with anything the Offensive Weapons Bill should it be enacted may throw at us. Why/how did/will they manage this? Simply because there was no requirement for them to actually DO anything. For a split second, I thought Brexit might just knock the possibility of the occurance of what I've always figured would happen sooner or later on the head, but then realised that that was just wishful thinking. As it appears from posts on here there's more shooters than available land. One of the two is decreasing whereas the other is doing the opposite, so losing a few members will not be of any great consequence.

No, the one that will do the damage, probably irrepairable, will be the' legislation' (for want of a better word) thrown at them/you which does require action and for which they're currently ill prepared. (Interestingly, on this point it's worth noting that Swift was not a complete Trojan Horse.) Additionally, it is probable that currently unlike a few years back, the cost will be such that this alone will reduce the number of shooters, never mind the BASC membership.

Wise words, I hope they do not prove to be correct!

[bostonmick]

The question I guess that needs to be asked is if our organisations are all ineffective what point is there to any of them. If the only benefit is the. Insurance then as this can be got for around a third of the price. 

Edited April 10, 2018 by bostonmick

[mossy835]

we have no hope the police and goverment will get there way, when it comes down to guns.you can buy a knife in any shop.

[David BASC]

It is in BASC's interest to do the best for its members, and by default shooters in general. We will always help our members where ever we can. We will lobby for the best possible outcome  and will keep doing so. We will do our best to keep members informed of what's going on, and of course the wider shooting fraternity through our website.

[drut]

Although I am not happy with the situation,as a BASC member I appreciate such things cannot always be easily/quickly sorted.Personally I will(only)be happy if BASC shows it has fought this robustly: whatever the outcome.

[bostonmick]

6 minutes ago, drut said:

Although I am not happy with the situation,as a BASC member I appreciate such things cannot always be easily/quickly sorted.Personally I will(only)be happy if BASC shows it has fought this robustly: whatever the outcome.

What do you consider to be robustly and timely. After all it has only been going on at one force or another for around five years now. 

[drut]

51 minutes ago, bostonmick said:

What do you consider to be robustly and timely. After all it has only been going on at one force or another for around five years now. 

I DID not say timely: in honesty that option has gone IMHO lost in the option of chasing the"holy grail" of 10yr certs through medical monitoring(personally I would rather believe in Santa Claus).In honesty BASC will have to be extremely plausible in fighting this not to lose my membership/support as I think their support for this mad scheme(GPs/BMA involvement)has helped to create this problem.As I have previously posted,whichever of the associations that fight this the hardest will get my membership/support.

[bostonmick]

9 minutes ago, drut said:

I DID not say timely: in honesty that option has gone IMHO lost in the option of chasing the"holy grail" of 10yr certs through medical monitoring(personally I would rather believe in Santa Claus).In honesty BASC will have to be extremely plausible in fighting this not to lose my membership/support as I think their support for this mad scheme(GPs/BMA involvement)has helped to create this problem.As I have previously posted,whichever of the associations that fight this the hardest will get my membership/support.

Sorry my mistake you never mentioned time. I would say that you will not be in any organisation soon as none of them are doing anything. If as we are told it is not in line with home office guidelines what they are doing then a legal challenge would be the way forward. Not just keep rolling out the same tired old lines for not pay. 

[drut]

1 minute ago, bostonmick said:

Sorry my mistake you never mentioned time. I would say that you will not be in any organisation soon as none of them are doing anything. If as we are told it is not in line with home office guidelines what they are doing then a legal challenge would be the way forward. Not just keep rolling out the same tired old lines for not pay. 

Unfortunately I have to agree,my membership renewal(or not)is in August so they have until then.

[Scully]

I think all our organisations have had more than enough time to be forewarned about this; as I mentioned in a previous post it's been over three years now since I spoke to a senior BASC rep' regarding this very issue. It's not as if it wasn't expected. 

I received an email today from the NGO regarding a DEFRA trapping consultation; not a single mention about GP's letters. Disappointing but not surprising. If this goes the way I expect it to I wont be joining any organisations. I'll keep the money for my GP's fees. 

[panoma1]

If the GP's and the police's position is supported by the government, how are the shooting bodies going to stop it happening?......Hold a gun to their heads? Shout at them? Stamp their feet? Cry?

Without being members of a representative body (no matter how ineffective/effective their voice!) we are just a bunch of already defeated, whinging individuals!........With no voice! And will get what we are given.........not whatever a representative body can manage (if anything?) to negotiate!

 

[Guest stevo]

8 hours ago, panoma1 said:

If the GP's and the police's position is supported by the government, how are the shooting bodies going to stop it happening?......Hold a gun to their heads? Shout at them? Stamp their feet? Cry?

Without being members of a representative body (no matter how ineffective/effective their voice!) we are just a bunch of already defeated, whinging individuals!........With no voice! And will get what we are given.........not whatever a representative body can manage (if anything?) to negotiate!

 

Thing is in my opinion  they all seem to very good at slamming the door very firmly shut , after the horse as bolted , they have ALL known about this let alone the rest of the problems that seem to face us on a year in , year out basis  for a very long time yet none of our representatives want to go with any form of preemptive action. This too me is the main reason why we are such an easy target for everyone with an agenda and a soapbox to stand on to absolutely  batter us in pretty much any way they see fit ? 

Basc alone is more than financially capable of this , go on to companies house and have a good look at there revenue/turnover.

Can you imagine the campaign that could be funded if all of our representatives got there heads together and funded some kind of legal action against those who seem intent on beating with a big morality stick. 

We can all sit there and defend them but at the end of the day they are just failing us all . 

It’s a very sad and sorry situation we have been lead into by all of the organisations , that along with The general attitude of most of the shooting fraternity  seems to be as long as we’re paying our £78 a year then we’re doing our bit and I no longer need to worrie because that’s what I pay them for .

I for one can’t help feeling that after all the letter writing , getting myself on to various committees with shooting orgs and paying towards the protection of our sport along with the hundreds of thousands of others  , I now actually feel beat.  I feel like I have been suckered  by all the hype and just wasted my time and effort over the past two decades . And finally finished off with a good old fashioned shafting . 

 

Just my opinion but I feel where all just treading water ,  and like has already been said we’re will be eventually killed off buy legislation .

 

 

Edited April 11, 2018 by stevo

[Salopian]

Stevo,

 I have to agree with you 100% , I also have been a member of all of the representative bodies .

But now feel that I have wasted my time and my money. As a Wildfowler, my club stipulates that I have to be a BASC member , but over the last couple of years I really do have to question why? 

Now in my later years I have to think long and hard whether I really do want to struggle through a dark winter's day on the foreshore .

So maybe it is time to hang up my waders , relinquish my BASC and Wildfowling club membership  and just shoot inland Ducks & Geese without contributing to shooting associations Dinner Club funds , which is what most of them seem to be doing nowadays.

To have been aware of these impending moves from various Constabularies for years and to have seemingly done very little smacks of laziness and incompetence.

This Lincolnshire debacle was highlighted on Countryfile some time ago without representation from BASC, only the CA defended us .

When criticised BASC issued a statement that they were aware of Lincolnshire's Chief Constables initiative and had assisted and been in talks with him.

Well done BASC , I hope the dinner whine was to your taste.

[rogcal]

Well, today saw my cabinets finally emptied, so no need to jump through the hoops LincsPol are asking me to jump through.

Crossbows and catapults from now on! 

Edited April 11, 2018 by rogcal

[bostonmick]

19 minutes ago, rogcal said:

Well, today saw my cabinets finally emptied, so no need to jump through the hoops LincsPol are asking me to jump through.

Crossbows and catapults from now on! 

No no no just phone BASC they will get it sorted. 

[rogcal]

20 minutes ago, bostonmick said:

No no no just phone BASC they will get it sorted. 

Bad

At

Serious

Concern

I think not! 

 

[David BASC]

If you are a member , call for help and advice

[Gordon R]

David BASC - will the advice be - refuse to pay, with a legal defence provided by BASC? Any other advice would seem to be as much use as a chocolate fireguard.