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Serious question concerning conservation


JONO
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Webber and all,

 

That report on the BTO site was reassuring in so far as people taking a long term, conscious appraisal of the numbers of this bird.

 

I'll happily shoot a pigeon 12 months of the year - especially now that I'm more confident that heavy bags and spring culling aren't impacting overly heavily on the population.

 

Its been an interesting and informative thread so thanks for contributing to it.

 

No nerve touched at all.

 

Kind regards

 

Jon

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I gave a lot more thought to this question last night, as I can understand the concerns of some shooters.

 

It wasn,t that many years ago, we couldn,t imagine not going down to the beach in the Winter months and coming home with a few bags of fresh cod fillets.

That sadly is just a memory now.

 

Another consideration we have to factor in to the pigeons survival odds, is the number of "safe havens" there are for it to live, feed and breed in.

Vast areas of the country, where they are completely safe from shooters.

Public places, parks, school/college grounds, towns, rural dwelling areas etc.

Private estates, Ministry of Defense and other Government lands, non shooting farms, zoo parks, Nature Reserves etc.

The lists are endless.

 

I read somewhere, that the pigeons secret of survival is its adaptability.

We have all seen evidence of that. :D

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Dont pay too much heed to those figures N.Ireland hasn't seen a 50% increase over the last 6yrs no way (IMO).

I agree with you there jonny, I have seen a slight increase in the last two years but no way has the population increased 50% in the last 6 years.

I don't know weather everyone from N.I. will agree with me but I think there is not enough crops grown in N.I. compared too England that may be why the numbers aren't as vast. :P

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When you guys run out of pigeons down south due to over shooting in the breeding season dont bother to call us guys up here for shooting !!!!!!!!!!!

 

In my area we have the main Sprout and Pea growers in the country and I have never had a call from a farmer requiring us to shoot Pigeons in the breeding periods, I control over 300,000 acres of ground in the Aberdeen and Fife areas.

 

Dont use the excuse of pest control as they are not a pest they are the most sporting bird in the country maybe the world, you should respect them like my clients respect them.

 

To call them rats is pure ignorence.

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When you guys run out of pigeons down south due to over shooting in the breeding season dont bother to call us guys up here for shooting !!!!!!!!!!!

 

I dont think so (er speaking for myself here?) I shoot mainly for one farmer who "farms" for a number of land owners, I shoot as often as possible, have never had a bag over 80 despite my worst efforts? I am effective in "moving the ******* on" but in reality thats about the best I can do no way will I and other shooters in the area deplete them substantially in fact I believe I hardly scratch the surface as it were.

 

I do however believe I am a LOT more effective than a gas gun? ie not only do I make em jump I take a few out, and yes I get enjoyment out of the art of getting them in to me and hopefully bagging some, I view the sport of pigeon shooting exactly the same way I do fishing I set the bait and hopefully my presentation tactics work and I get a few bites? am I wrong to "enjoy it"

 

the pigeon population in my area is well and truly on the up? I work at a power station in the north east and my site must now have at least 50 pairs of nesting woodies? any cable tray, gantry, or covered structure will do for them they even use wire for nest material? as little as 3 to 4 years ago I never saw one? these kick out 3 sets of squabs every year so 50 pairs are knocking out around 300 from one site alone, plus of course most garden areas of my town now support woodies in ever increasing numbers!

 

I can see some concerned with numbers and perhaps some concern is a good thing, but how the hell do I go to my farmer friend and tell him sorry I wont be shooting for a couple of months as I would like to let them get their numbers up a bit, but I will of course come back in the winter and have a pot at the "larger" flocks think I would be looking for other land?specially looking at the decimation to rape around here?

 

As for "proffesional" pigeon shooting Ie selling shooting days I see the "offer" of prospective 100 bird bags advertised in may/ june of each year perhaps they could set an example and have quota's? so any "red letter" days do not become bad adverts? just a thought!

cheers Kdubya

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Hunterswind

 

Ignorance, is not being aware of all of the facts conserning an issue.

 

Read the string, and the reports that support it.

 

I agree that woodies are a most sporting bird; but they are also most certainly a pest. For you to suggest otherwise is ignorance indeed.

 

webber

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Hunterswind

 

You clearly stated that woodies were not a pest. For a so called proffesional such as yourself, thats quite a staggering statement.

 

As you are obviously not capable of being civil, I shall in future simply ignore any of your posts and website details, and would encourage other pigeon watchers to do likewise.

 

If 4000 pigeon on a field dont represent an agricultural pest, I am beggared if I know what does.

 

Some synical people would suggest that you have your own interests at heart, and not those of the farmers, on whos land you and your clients are permitted to shoot.

 

regards

 

webber

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On pigeons,

there seems to be plenty around the east midlands, especially my farm. i approach them at this time of year by taking only oppertune shots, i dont tend to decoy unless there is a large number. i belive that this limits the numbers rather than seriusly reducing them, leaving plenty to be shot in the summer. :P just my humble opinion.

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Even as few as 100 birds on a newly planted Brocolli field can cause a lot of damage. They are planted in 8 acre plots, with as many as 20 plots on one of our farms, so bangers are not enough.

 

Our farmers phone us all the time to let us know what bother their getting, this is a great way of knowing whats happening on the land when you cover such a large area, especially when you combine it with your own spotting.

 

With most of the veg being planted in the breeding season we're left with the choice to shoot them or risk the farmer asking someone else, and believe me most folk would jump at the chance to get their feet in the door!

So we shoot them.

 

Our bags aren't huge on the veg but if you combine it with some clover or spring rape shooting then its not bad. If people wish to shoot over the mid summer months its their own personal choice and its great we can still choose. But in some circumstances it is essential to farmers.

 

Mark.

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It wasn,t that many years ago, we couldn,t imagine not going down to the beach in the Winter months and coming home with a few bags of fresh cod fillets.

That sadly is just a memory now.

Yeah but mate thats not as a result of over beach fishing though :P As you said earlier I truly don't think pigeon shooters are shooting enough to damage the population, in fact as all reports have shown its increasing :P Sure, we must be prepared for the future, but doom isn't about to fall upon us (IMO).

 

I would say the only thing which will change the size of the pigeon population is the crops the farmers choose to grow and that is out of our hands. With them being recorded breeding in every month of the season, with the winters getting warmer I honestly don't think the shooting is going to put too much of a strain on their population.

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Hunterswind

 

You clearly stated that woodies were not a pest. For a so called proffesional such as yourself, thats quite a staggering statement.

 

As you are obviously not capable of being civil, I shall in future simply ignore any of your posts and website details, and would encourage other pigeon watchers to do likewise.

 

If 4000 pigeon on a field dont represent an agricultural pest, I am beggared if I know what does.

 

Some synical people would suggest that you have your own interests at heart, and not those of the farmers, on whos land you and your clients are permitted to shoot.

 

regards

 

webber

Come on webber and hunterswind don't be starting another fight on this forum. Respect each others views and kiss & make up

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they are the most sporting bird in the country maybe the world, you should respect them like my clients respect them.

 

To call them rats is pure ignorence.

I must say I agree Whole heartedly with H on this point..

 

I have shot most game birds in this country... Pheasant, Partrige, Woodcock, Snipe, Duck, Goose and Grouse.. and none of them more difficult than Woody with the wind behind him soaring into decoys and twisting and turning off when he realizes something is amiss.

 

A turning woodcock low and fast between trees is a challenge indeed but generally Pheasant, Partridge & Grouse tend to fly in a straight line.. The last time I went pheasant shooting a couple of years ago I got so bored with it as the only challenge were the really high birds.. Of the others if you gave enough lead you would generally hit.

 

If I want a days sport. decoying pigeon with a 20 gauge is great ...

 

I have access to 7 different farms in this area and All the Farmers are happy for me to shoot all year round if I want to, and generally grow rape planted between stubble or bare planted in late Summer/Autumn, Barley & Wheat in spring or winter.

All agree that during summer months woody is not as much of a pest as Bunny so the Cannons go into storage. I rest my case..

 

I Re-iterate that I will not deliberately shoot any bird during its breeding cycle but thats my personal choice.

 

FM

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Ollie

 

It was not I who started to sling insults.

 

My reference to"avian rats" was meant to infer the success of the woodies breeding and population growth, nothing more.

 

Hunterswind is entitled to his views, and comments. So am I.

 

Thats why I am now in the process of booking with one of his competitors, who I believe to have a more proffesional attitude to that previously exhibited on this forum by hunterswind, whos posts shall now go unread by myself, and judging by the PMs, several other forum members as well.

 

No poke at you ollie, or anyone else, but I rarely kiss the wife, I am ******** if I am going to start kissing a Scots man that I dont know, and whos views I do not entirely agree with.

 

webber :P

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Fortunatly I have my pick of clients all of them are friends or friends of friends. They pay a lot of money and get good sport most of the time.

 

One day soon there will be a closed season for sure.

 

Would you kill a Pike full of eggs even though it is eating your prized expensive trout :P??

 

Would you shoot a Roe doe in the last few weeks of the legal season and enjoy looking at the twin kids inside it ??

 

True sportsmen are conservationists.

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hunterswind9465, I,m very pleased you can pick your clients, in the same way we can pick our Guides. :P

 

Your comparisons between egg filled pike, pregnant roe deer and wood pigeons, is a bit of a nonsense.

 

It is not usual in England (or most of the UK), to kill pike, whether they are full of spawn, or not.

Most pike in trout waters are either relocated, or left to aid the natural husbandry of the water.

They also, provide the Owners with lucrative incomes on fixed weekends a year, when they sell very expensive day tickets, to pike fishermen.

 

I,m sure that most stalkers (I don,t stalk deer), would not knowingly take a pregnant roe deer.

 

The wood pigeon is an agricultural pest.

 

Over and out. :P:P

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Stir fried pike, back in fermanagh the lakes were full of them, I caught many and killed most, none were wasted, all were enjoyed. Don't recall finding any of the hundreds I caught with eggs in it, often found them with fry in their mouths which I would literally be able to put back in the water and they would swim off seemingly unharmed, it seems the pike swallows small morsels whole! :P None of these pike were huge and all made good eating, perhaps if they had been larger I may have put them back.

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