SIDE BY SIDE RESURGENCE??? BUT PRICES !!!!!!

[Westley]

Just to put things in perspective, in 1961 my take home pay as an apprentice was,  £4. 0s. 3d. per week.    I was 16 then.

[Old Boggy]

My apprentice start pay at 17 in 1965 was £4. 4s. 0d.

I recall that I was earning more in my spare time prior to starting work proper, doing gardening jobs, selling rabbits, working Saturdays doing a butchers round on an old trades bike (damned hard work pushing one off those up a hill with short skinny legs) and working on a caravan site driving a little old grey Fergie and trailer changing gas bottles (best job ever as there were always plenty of young girls down on holiday to chat up. Between my mate and myself, I always got the ugly one, but they were the most grateful !!)

[browning123]

13 minutes ago, Old Boggy said:

My apprentice start pay at 17 in 1965 was £4. 4s. 0d.

I recall that I was earning more in my spare time prior to starting work proper, doing gardening jobs, selling rabbits, working Saturdays doing a butchers round on an old trades bike (damned hard work pushing one off those up a hill with short skinny legs) and working on a caravan site driving a little old grey Fergie and trailer changing gas bottles (best job ever as there were always plenty of young girls down on holiday to chat up. Between my mate and myself, I always got the ugly one, but they were the most grateful !!)

???

[steve s×s]

What a wonderful posting, have just spent an hour on this, got 3 at the moment 2 Denton &kennel  1 sable all 12 bore, all get used .

[oldypigeonpopper]

1 hour ago, Old Boggy said:

Just found a few more adverts from the Shooting Times dated 1960-61. How about a Webley 700 for £95 or an AYA No. for £87/10/0 !!

hello, my goodness OB now that does bring back some memories, i must to confess i did frequent Russel Hillsdons when i lived in Chichester about 1969 

[JJsDad]

Come on then, own up. Who remembers shotguns COD !! When the postie turned up with a cardbox tied with string and all the knots sealed by red wax to show it hadnt been tampered with.

"Here`s your new musket Sir, you owe me £45" Happy days

[The Heron]

I have a AYA 25 and as I have put on here before I would not part with it my dream is to have a pair of 25s made to measure in a leather case but like most on here I can dream.

[Old Boggy]

11 hours ago, JJsDad said:

Come on then, own up. Who remembers shotguns COD !! When the postie turned up with a cardbox tied with string and all the knots sealed by red wax to show it hadnt been tampered with.

"Here`s your new musket Sir, you owe me £45" Happy days

Cash on delivery. Remember it well. That's when there was more trust in the world. Not so much now though, except of course amongst PW members.

Thanks again JJsDad for the memories. Keep'em coming.

OB

[Guest cookoff013]

On 4/12/2018 at 17:09, AYA117 said:

wow. stunning.
 

on a slightly different topic, 
shotgun cartridges designed from yesteryear were big and slow shells, it was the standards of the day. shotgun powder were coming out of the bulk phase and speeds were nearer 1100 or 1200 at a push. with the resurgence of clay shooting, 1,1/8oz loads were pretty big enough especially through a massive shoot. even then the shells were softer. with the resurgence of clay shells the loads got naturally faster and the uk ended up in speed races between manufacturers. 1300fps ended up as a club shell. (good one at that).

the slower loads patterned really well, and the choking of 1/2 and 1/4 were absolutely brilliant with big loads. 
today 3/4oz and7/8oz international loads end up being choked to death just to get 1/4 patterns. 

if you want to really enjoy game shooting or atleast have some connection, to the times gone by get some real soft shells. these guns were never ever ever designed to shoot 1500fps loads and they certainly take a pounding. its not unheard off to snap the swan neck stock of a quality sxs. the proof house have a recoil meter attached to the pressure rig, so it can record the recoil as Nm and there is a certain limit. 

buy some decent or make subsonics (or just over that speed). and just enjoy.

[Robertt]

Bargain SKB 100 S x S  single trigger in ' Guns for sale ' now.

I had the 200 ejector model my mate bought the 100 BLNE.

 Very sound gun.

The one advertised doesn't list choking but most were Full & 1/2 and probably 28" .

 

Edited April 17, 2018 by Robertt

[AYA117]

1 hour ago, cookoff013 said:

On ‎12‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 17:09, AYA117 said:

 

wow. stunning.

I am very pleased with it, got from a PW member. Now have 5 AYAs, the start of a collection I think 

[panoma1]

14 hours ago, JJsDad said:

Come on then, own up. Who remembers shotguns COD !! When the postie turned up with a cardbox tied with string and all the knots sealed by red wax to show it hadnt been tampered with.

"Here`s your new musket Sir, you owe me £45" Happy days

Ah! The Grange Gun co! A great place, in the middle of no where!  I remember it well...if I recall A Mr Caldecott and David (Name escapes me) ran it, my brother bought a C G Bonehill BLNE from them in the late 60's (he still has it, pitting and all! Lol!) I had a Grange gun company BA .410, got my first mallard with it!

[matone]

2 hours ago, cookoff013 said:

wow. stunning.
 

on a slightly different topic, 
shotgun cartridges designed from yesteryear were big and slow shells, it was the standards of the day. shotgun powder were coming out of the bulk phase and speeds were nearer 1100 or 1200 at a push. with the resurgence of clay shooting, 1,1/8oz loads were pretty big enough especially through a massive shoot. even then the shells were softer. with the resurgence of clay shells the loads got naturally faster and the uk ended up in speed races between manufacturers. 1300fps ended up as a club shell. (good one at that).

the slower loads patterned really well, and the choking of 1/2 and 1/4 were absolutely brilliant with big loads. 
today 3/4oz and7/8oz international loads end up being choked to death just to get 1/4 patterns. 

if you want to really enjoy game shooting or atleast have some connection, to the times gone by get some real soft shells. these guns were never ever ever designed to shoot 1500fps loads and they certainly take a pounding. its not unheard off to snap the swan neck stock of a quality sxs. the proof house have a recoil meter attached to the pressure rig, so it can record the recoil as Nm and there is a certain limit. 

buy some decent or make subsonics (or just over that speed). and just enjoy.

Couldn`t agree more ! The amount of people who try and put unsuitable cartridges through s/s  and are then put off  must be substantial nowadays .Personally,I find even most 1oz club loads too much and tend to use 7/8 oz loads for clays.Even some 7/8oz loads are too hot ! Hull Comp X 1oz are fine though.

Last season I tried a couple of boxes of current loading Eley Impax and thought they were horrible in normal s/s,why can`t we have sensible  game loads anymore ?

[Guest cookoff013]

because speed sells. 

if you were to get a reloading machine and make subs and or quality light recoil game loadings it really pays dividends on either quality, and or shotsize selection. in days gone by multichokes never existed, altering patterns meant changing shells or making.

[AYA117]

I think the balance of the gun makes a big difference, I regularly put 1 1/4 oz loads through my No2 and feel no real difference from a 1 1/8 oz load.

[Robertt]

 Matone.......I did recoil testing for my S x S last year with a view to driven game shooting. Settled for Express Pigeon Power 29g as being very user friendly and very good at the business end.

Impax was in the test and was not nice to shoot at all. 

 

 

 

[JJsDad]

45 minutes ago, cookoff013 said:

because speed sells. 

It may do with the clay shooters and re-loaders, but to most Pigeon and Game shooters the majority in my experience dont give a jot what the MV is.

I am in a walk / stand syndicate with around 12 full guns and a further 6 half guns, we shoot fibre wad only at the farmers request; while most of our members could quote you the shot load of their prefered cartridge and its size, plus how much they cost; I would place a small wager not one of them could quote the velocity. High velocity loads work in both directions and I have known more than one of our members complain about excessive recoil from a particular cartridge, with the comment they wont be buying that make again.

Out of curiosity I have just looked at 3 different boxes of game loads (Eley, Hull & Lyvale) and it is only the later who quotes the MV on the carton.

Apologies to the OP, we started off talking about side x sides and have got sidetracked into what cartridges to feed them on.

Edited April 17, 2018 by JJsDad
Apology added

[ips]

I use 30g 6s for everything incl driven pheasant (i may go to 32g late season) through a 26" SxS and recoil is no issue.

Agree with AYA117 balance (and pitch) will make a big difference.

[matone]

1 hour ago, Robertt said:

 Matone.......I did recoil testing for my S x S last year with a view to driven game shooting. Settled for Express Pigeon Power 29g as being very user friendly and very good at the business end.

Impax was in the test and was not nice to shoot at all. 

 

 

 

Tbh I tried the Pigeon Power after reading your post and they`re too much cartridge for me in my s/sides ! Settled on  Fiocchi Pl28 `s and found them to be a very hard hitting cartridge with reasonable recoil along with Hull Imperial 26g & 3 Crowns .

Was really disappointed by the Impax though,should be a smooth shell when they`re at a premium price & aimed at the s/s market .......

[matone]

2 hours ago, AYA117 said:

I think the balance of the gun makes a big difference, I regularly put 1 1/4 oz loads through my No2 and feel no real difference from a 1 1/8 oz load.

I just think some people are more affected by recoil than others tbh ,I`ve owned and shot just about every format but apart from in semi autos ,I`ve never liked harsh cartridges.

[Guest cookoff013]

2 hours ago, JJsDad said:

It may do with the clay shooters and re-loaders, but to most Pigeon and Game shooters the majority in my experience dont give a jot what the MV is.

I am in a walk / stand syndicate with around 12 full guns and a further 6 half guns, we shoot fibre wad only at the farmers request; while most of our members could quote you the shot load of their prefered cartridge and its size, plus how much they cost; I would place a small wager not one of them could quote the velocity. High velocity loads work in both directions and I have known more than one of our members complain about excessive recoil from a particular cartridge, with the comment they wont be buying that make again.

Out of curiosity I have just looked at 3 different boxes of game loads (Eley, Hull & Lyvale) and it is only the later who quotes the MV on the carton.

Apologies to the OP, we started off talking about side x sides and have got sidetracked into what cartridges to feed them on.

the point was that cartridges of old, never exceeded 1300. if not most hovered at 1250MV. while your syndicate may actually know what they are doing but i bet they are factory offerings something a guy here was testing alot off. some were way off base. i have a habit of quoting certain speeds, at or near transonic. at those speeds even the recoil from those are smooth. if not all the manufacturers now are chasing faster and faster loading such as "dark storm". in days of old, 1500fps loads didnot exist. even saami standards had to have inclusions of 1700fps. hardly definitive. but thats the way loadings are going. at the cost of this, lead needs to be harder and even then choking does very little to pattern true,or at all. 

your syndicate and nearly every shooter inclusive of me. are a consumer. we consume ammunition. we purchase products that manufacturers make.we are slaves to what they make and can be bothered to sell. even changing clear pigeon to clearr / black pigeon caused a stir.

infact there was a thread a month ago about a reputable company advising on what cartridges are and got it horribly wrong, on a social media for everyone to see. it is generally a bad representation of "experienced" knowlege
i have been making shells for alittle over a decade, testing them not as long. if i was to chase up the speeds quoted by manufacturers , i`d go insane. as a reloader i can manufacture for the same cost as a 32g #6 a better smoother 36g load that i could pleasently shoot forever, in any shot size and wadding i see fit. i`d rather shoot 36g at 1200fps than 32g at 1500fps.

[JJsDad]

One more elderly advert to remind panoma1 of his days as a youth !

I think if my memory serves me correctly it was King George V who was reported to have said when he was discussing hammerless ejector shotguns: "A shotgun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears"

So here you go, the acceptable gun to shoot in the company of royalty or go wildfowling, all for the price of £34-15-0 !

 

 

Edited April 17, 2018 by JJsDad
Spelling

[matone]

1 hour ago, JJsDad said:

One more elderly advert to remind panoma1 of his days as a youth !

I think if my memory serves me correctly it was King George V who was reported to have said when he was discussing hammerless ejector shotguns: "A shotgun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears"

So here you go, the acceptable gun to shoot in the company of royalty or go wildfowling, all for the price of £34-15-0 !

 

 

Anyone ever seen or owned one of these ?

[Robertt]

My first  S x S Ugartechea BLNE think £40 ish 

 

[panoma1]

9 minutes ago, Robertt said:

My first  S x S Ugartechea BLNE think £40 ish 

 

I still have the Ugartechea SLE, I bought new from a long defunct shop in Worcester.........£75.00 I believe it cost me in the early 70's, I had it refinished, anglicised and regulated by A A Browns.

Still in good nick, on the face and the bores are unmarked.