ordnance Posted April 17, 2018 Report Share Posted April 17, 2018 (edited) 9 hours ago, Scully said: In the case of Ant it isn’t really a question of deterring him; he has a severe drink problem. The fact he is undergoing treatment indicates alcoholism and no matter of deterrents will deter that. It is an illness, an addiction, and if he, under the influence of drink, decides to get back behind the wheel, he will. Money has nothing to do with it. He is an addict. I would see it more as a addiction, its no more a illness than smoking. Edited April 17, 2018 by ordnance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted April 17, 2018 Report Share Posted April 17, 2018 37 minutes ago, ordnance said: I would see it more as a addiction, its no more a illness than smoking. Fair enough. Perhaps I should have said it is often part of underlying mental health issues, which was the information given me by a doctor. He told me that once the patient has stopped drinking they can often discover those underlying issues and treat them, which in turn can help treat the addiction, but until then they can do nothing but treat the consequences of the addiction, which are far reaching and extremely unpleasant, as I have learnt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted April 17, 2018 Report Share Posted April 17, 2018 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Scully said: Fair enough. Perhaps I should have said it is often part of underlying mental health issues, which was the information given me by a doctor. He told me that once the patient has stopped drinking they can often discover those underlying issues and treat them, which in turn can help treat the addiction, but until then they can do nothing but treat the consequences of the addiction, which are far reaching and extremely unpleasant, as I have learnt. Agree i have a friend who is a alcoholic, i have seen what it can do. I just think some people labeling it as a illness ( not you ) doesn't help it gives people that do have a drink problem a excuse to keep on drinking, i can't stop i can't do anything its illness. Edited April 17, 2018 by ordnance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walshie Posted April 17, 2018 Report Share Posted April 17, 2018 I don't know why anyone is sticking up for him. Would they stick up for anyone else who knowingly broke the law and put other people's lives at risk? He's rich and he's in the public eye. He should employ a full time driver as he can't be trusted not to do it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckyshot Posted April 17, 2018 Report Share Posted April 17, 2018 4 minutes ago, walshie said: I don't know why anyone is sticking up for him. Would they stick up for anyone else who knowingly broke the law and put other people's lives at risk? He's rich and he's in the public eye. He should employ a full time driver as he can't be trusted not to do it again. People are sticking up for him as yes he broke the law [most of us do daily one way or another] but why should he pay more because he earns more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walshie Posted April 17, 2018 Report Share Posted April 17, 2018 1 minute ago, Luckyshot said: People are sticking up for him as yes he broke the law [most of us do daily one way or another] but why should he pay more because he earns more. Drink driving fines have always been based on earnings. A £500 fine for him would be like me getting a £2 fine. Hardly a punishment or a deterrent is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted April 17, 2018 Report Share Posted April 17, 2018 1 minute ago, Luckyshot said: but why should he pay more because he earns more. Because fines, like income tax are based on what you earn. Since they are intended to 'punish', there is little punishment in fining a man on £130,000 say £200. He earns that in 3 1/2 minutes. Great punishment - forfeit 3 1/2 minutes wages! People on average earnings take a heavy hit with the fine, - he should as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckyshot Posted April 17, 2018 Report Share Posted April 17, 2018 Just now, walshie said: Drink driving fines have always been based on earnings. A £500 fine for him would be like me getting a £2 fine. Hardly a punishment or a deterrent is it? No they haven't, i was convicted 20 years ago and my fine didn't reflect my wage unless unemployment pays very well indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted April 17, 2018 Report Share Posted April 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said: Because fines, like income tax are based on what you earn. Since they are intended to 'punish', there is little punishment in fining a man on £130,000 say £200. He earns that in 3 1/2 minutes. Great punishment - forfeit 3 1/2 minutes wages! People on average earnings take a heavy hit with the fine, - he should as well. How are fines calculated, it seems its up to the magistrate. Drink-driving penalties You could be imprisoned, banned from driving and face a fine if you’re found guilty of drink-driving. The actual penalty you get is up to the magistrates who hear your case, and depends on your offence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckyshot Posted April 17, 2018 Report Share Posted April 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said: Because fines, like income tax are based on what you earn. Since they are intended to 'punish', there is little punishment in fining a man on £130,000 say £200. He earns that in 3 1/2 minutes. Great punishment - forfeit 3 1/2 minutes wages! People on average earnings take a heavy hit with the fine, - he should as well. A fine is a fine it shouldn't discriminate against earning a good living Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walshie Posted April 17, 2018 Report Share Posted April 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, Luckyshot said: No they haven't, i was convicted 20 years ago and my fine didn't reflect my wage unless unemployment pays very well indeed. Well they are now. He got off lightly looking at that lot. Could have been 600% of his weekly salary. Magistrates will then place you in one of the salary-based sentencing "bands" laid out in the court guidelines. These are designed to make fines fair - so drivers on regular incomes pay less than super-rich celebs and footballers like Wayne Rooney or Ant McPartlin. Fine Band A: 50% of relevant weekly income (between 25 – 75% of relevant weekly income) Fine Band B: 100% of relevant weekly income (75 – 125% of relevant weekly income) Fine Band C: 150% of relevant weekly income (125 – 175% of relevant weekly income) Fine Band D: 250% of relevant weekly income (200 – 300% of relevant weekly income) Fine Band E: 400% of relevant weekly income (300 – 500% of relevant weekly income) Fine Band F: 600% of relevant weekly income (500 – 700% of relevant weekly income) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted April 17, 2018 Report Share Posted April 17, 2018 (edited) Not sure what you are saying here. If he earns £130,000, and is fined £86,000, that leaves him £44,000 for a 'good living'. If that isn't a good living, then you are in a different world to the rest of us. 7 minutes ago, Luckyshot said: A fine is a fine it shouldn't discriminate against earning a good living Not sure what you are saying here. If he earns £130,000, and is fined £86,000, that leaves him £44,000 for a 'good living'. If that isn't a good living, then you are in a different world to the rest of us. And its back to the full £130,000 next week, so no worries. Edited April 17, 2018 by JohnfromUK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddy Funker Posted April 17, 2018 Report Share Posted April 17, 2018 On 16/04/2018 at 17:20, ditchman said: i just cant fathom it............yet some scroat ...who is drunk...runs down and injures someone can get away with a small fine and short ban............dont get me wrong im not moaning i just cant fathom how the court plucks these random figures out of the air............. It's means based, I've not read any other replies so it's probably already been explained. He earns a fortune so has to pay a fortune, though it's peanuts to him really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mel b3 Posted April 18, 2018 Report Share Posted April 18, 2018 7 hours ago, Luckyshot said: A fine is a fine it shouldn't discriminate against earning a good living You're right ,it should be made equal ,and all drink drivers should be fined £86,000 , then they would never be able to afford to drink or drive ever again . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted April 18, 2018 Report Share Posted April 18, 2018 (edited) 9 hours ago, Luckyshot said: A fine is a fine it shouldn't discriminate against earning a good living Then how do you punish such a person who has committed a crime? 9 hours ago, walshie said: Well they are now. He got off lightly looking at that lot. Could have been 600% of his weekly salary. Magistrates will then place you in one of the salary-based sentencing "bands" laid out in the court guidelines. These are designed to make fines fair - so drivers on regular incomes pay less than super-rich celebs and footballers like Wayne Rooney or Ant McPartlin. Fine Band A: 50% of relevant weekly income (between 25 – 75% of relevant weekly income) Fine Band B: 100% of relevant weekly income (75 – 125% of relevant weekly income) Fine Band C: 150% of relevant weekly income (125 – 175% of relevant weekly income) Fine Band D: 250% of relevant weekly income (200 – 300% of relevant weekly income) Fine Band E: 400% of relevant weekly income (300 – 500% of relevant weekly income) Fine Band F: 600% of relevant weekly income (500 – 700% of relevant weekly income) An attempt to address the poor previous set up that allowed people of wealth to effectively avoid being punished. 2 hours ago, mel b3 said: You're right ,it should be made equal ,and all drink drivers should be fined £86,000 , then they would never be able to afford to drink or drive ever again . That would be a good starting position. Edited April 18, 2018 by TIGHTCHOKE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walshie Posted April 18, 2018 Report Share Posted April 18, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, mel b3 said: You're right ,it should be made equal ,and all drink drivers should be fined £86,000 , then they would never be able to afford to drink or drive ever again . McPartlin would. The fine should be a deterrent, not a minor annoyance. Edited April 18, 2018 by walshie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted April 18, 2018 Report Share Posted April 18, 2018 Strange old thing being a so called celebrity? The spank they get is the velvet glove? Ordinary law abiding people seem to get the iron fist? We all have addiction at some level to something, he didn't need to drive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokersmith Posted April 18, 2018 Report Share Posted April 18, 2018 Apparently his mum didn't know he'd been drinking when she got in the car ... that surprises me 'cos he clearly looked smashed when he got out of it !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted April 18, 2018 Report Share Posted April 18, 2018 4 minutes ago, Smokersmith said: Apparently his mum didn't know he'd been drinking when she got in the car ... that surprises me 'cos he clearly looked smashed when he got out of it !! Not wishing to defend, or make light of the offence, but firstly alcoholics are incredibly 'devious' at hiding their drinking, and secondly, if an airbag has just gone off in front of you (which I suspect his did), you would be much shaken. A friend of mine had an airbag go off due to hitting a pheasant at motorway speed and it goes with a hell of a bang - and hits you hard. He had broken glasses and two black eyes, but was fortunately otherwise unhurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sportsbob Posted April 18, 2018 Report Share Posted April 18, 2018 11 hours ago, walshie said: Well they are now. He got off lightly looking at that lot. Could have been 600% of his weekly salary. Fine Band A: 50% of relevant weekly income (between 25 – 75% of relevant weekly income) Fine Band B: 100% of relevant weekly income (75 – 125% of relevant weekly income) Fine Band C: 150% of relevant weekly income (125 – 175% of relevant weekly income) Fine Band D: 250% of relevant weekly income (200 – 300% of relevant weekly income) Fine Band E: 400% of relevant weekly income (300 – 500% of relevant weekly income) Fine Band F: 600% of relevant weekly income (500 – 700% of relevant weekly income) +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted April 18, 2018 Report Share Posted April 18, 2018 Like I said; if you’re an alcoholic ( which I’m assuming is the reason he’s undergoing treatment ) then no amount of a fine as a deterrent will be effective. If an alcoholic has access to a car they will drive it if they want to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hodge911 Posted April 18, 2018 Report Share Posted April 18, 2018 15 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: Are you for real? YES are you ? so lets put along these lines .......... you and lets say your brother (hypothetical) both get caught for the exact same offence you earn treble the amount of salary as your brother so at court he gets a fine of lets say ? £700 + costs at court for the exact same offence because of your higher earnings you get fined £4000 + costs so is that in any way a fair outcome ........................... I very much doubt it and as for " being in the public eye " statement made by some that should make no difference either . there will be loads of people like him fighting problems in their life but without the media interest he made a massive mistake (which can not be defended in any way what so ever) of getting behind the wheel there has been numerous cases of repeat offenders committing more serious crimes which in some cases have ended in loss of life that have not been fined a fraction of his fine being famous and earning a high salary is not a crime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted April 18, 2018 Report Share Posted April 18, 2018 4 minutes ago, hodge911 said: you and lets say your brother (hypothetical) both get caught for the exact same offence you earn treble the amount of salary as your brother so at court he gets a fine of lets say ? £700 + costs Then you would likely be fined about 3 times 700 + costs = £2100. Tax is the same; Lets suppose your brother earns £30K a year - and you earn £90K. He will pay approx £4K income tax (20% of 20K assuming he has 10K basic allowance) You on £90K will pay roughly £22.8K in income tax (20% of £46K plus 40% of 34K) So you earn 3 times what your brother earns, but pay over 5 times as much income tax. (figures are approximate as done in my head) It is the way the system works, the better off pay a higher amount because they can 'afford it'. I'm no socialist, or left winger, but it is quite right (in my view) that the wealthier pay more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted April 18, 2018 Report Share Posted April 18, 2018 Seemingly his PR network is in operation already? Willoughby and co are reported to have said they did not comment on his situation out out of respect for him and his situation? Strange maybe, as they seem to make a living out of reporting the deeds and misfortunes of others? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walshie Posted April 18, 2018 Report Share Posted April 18, 2018 No point in arguing the pros and cons. The upshot of it is a multi-millionaire got fined half a week's salary for knowingly breaking the law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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