Side by Side Club

[JJsDad]

10 minutes ago, wymberley said:

I wonder if between everyone it would be possible to come up with the retail prices for a Webley and Scott model 700

I have a book by Pat Whately & J A Crawford titled `The History of W & C Scott Gunmakers`. This lists the serial numbers and years of manufacture plus the selling price in each year.

If you care to PM me your serial number I will dig the book out and let you have some details.

Cheers. JJsDad

[McSpredder]

Nothing valuable or exotic in my cabinet, just a 1920s Gallyon BLNE that father bought s/h in 1961 from Gallyon’s shop near the Round Church (still gets an occasional outing) and an AYA No3 magnum that has become my everyday gun.

[AYA117]

20 minutes ago, McSpredder said:

just a 1920s Gallyon BLNE that father bought s/h in 1961 from Gallyon’s shop near the Round Church

That is the kind of gun that is worth more than money !

[wymberley]

36 minutes ago, JJsDad said:

I have a book by Pat Whately & J A Crawford titled `The History of W & C Scott Gunmakers`. This lists the serial numbers and years of manufacture plus the selling price in each year.

If you care to PM me your serial number I will dig the book out and let you have some details.

Cheers. JJsDad

PM on way. Many, many thanks.

[AYA117]

4 hours ago, m greeny said:

I'm in the club got a modern yildiz 3 1/2 inch and a Spanish 3inch hammer gun that I've recently purchased to do up but I like shooting it that much the tarting up will have to wait a while

Any chance of some pics. ?

 

[wymberley]

43 minutes ago, matone said:

Webley £346 & AYA 25 £ 235 in Oct 1974 .

Dunno about the inflation rate tho` !

 

Not on my computer, wife's I pad and nearly missed your reply. Brilliant! Many thanks.

[buze]

So anyway, we are LEGION.

Where is our subforum? :-)

 

[AYA117]

10 minutes ago, buze said:

So anyway, we are LEGION.

Where is our subforum? :-)

 

I think we have made one all on our own, so lets keep it going and hope it is made 'official'

[JJsDad]

25 minutes ago, buze said:

So anyway, we are LEGION.

Where is our subforum? :-)

We have made an approach to the Moderators who are going to discuss & get back to us.

JJsDad

[m greeny]

1 hour ago, AYA117 said:

Any chance of some pics. ?

 

No chance I'm ******* useless at technology 

[AYA117]

4 minutes ago, m greeny said:

No chance I'm ******* useless at technology 

I know what you mean, if anything can be done please do put up some pictures !

[wymberley]

Having had superb input from both Matone and JJsDad, it would be churlish not to mention that I have a copy of The House Of Churchill should anyone be after any info on that marque.

[Old Boggy]

4 hours ago, McSpredder said:

Nothing valuable or exotic in my cabinet, just a 1920s Gallyon BLNE that father bought s/h in 1961 from Gallyon’s shop near the Round Church (still gets an occasional outing) and an AYA No3 magnum that has become my everyday gun.

I had a 16g Gallyon BLE a little bit older than yours. Has yours got the Cornucopia logo on the trigger guard ? No doubt Richard Gallyon has been able to let you know who it was made for and the price at that time.

OB

[mossy835]

i have a aya sxs number  4  20 bore, lovley guns.carry it all day.

[Old Boggy]

Does anyone out there own, or has owned a gun by W.R.Leeson of Ashford, Kent ?

If so, there is a great website on this maker initiated and regularly updated by Adrian Macer. The site lists nearly 200 guns by Leeson, most of which have professional photos and concise details. Most Leeson guns can be recognised by their conical fences, a trade mark of Leeson. He, like many provincial makers established an office in London, presumably so that he could have the prestige of being called a 'London' maker and thus command some respect, but more importantly, higher prices. I think that, like many, he probably started making guns but when his trade became more prolific, bought in from the Birmingham trade to keep up with sales as not all his guns had the conical fences. Indeed it is debatable , but unproven, whether even his 'conically fenced' guns were made by him. I'm sure that 'Gunman' on here may well know 'who made for who' within the trade as even the London gunmakers outsourced some parts if not all of their guns. We all like to think that our guns started their lives as bare wood and metal in the workshop of the 'gunmaker' bearing it's name, being worked on by artisan gunsmiths from start to finish. Sadly that was very rarely the case, but none the worse for that in terms of quality.

Anyway, the Leeson website is well worth a look even if you do not own one of his guns. However, if you do, I know that Adrian would be pleased to add it to his website (if not listed already and with the owners permission of course). He has travelled extensively within the U.K. to take details and to photograph the guns on the site. Whilst Adrian is not in possession of the Leeson records, he can give a reasonable assessment of the age of any gun by its serial number with the knowledge that he has gleaned through his research on this maker.

www.wrleeson.co.uk

OB

 

 

Edited April 22, 2018 by Old Boggy
website address corrected thanks to JJsDad

[JJsDad]

1 hour ago, Old Boggy said:

w.w.w.leeson.co.uk

Hi Old Boggy.

Looks like his site has been re-named from the one quoted, decided to have a look and couldnt find it initially; now under: http://www.wrleeson.co.uk/ . I dont own a Leeson, but an interesting site for anyone who has an interest in the British gun trade.

Cheers. JJsDad

Edited April 22, 2018 by JJsDad
Spelling

[JJsDad]

11 hours ago, wymberley said:

Having had superb input from both Matone and JJsDad, it would be churlish not to mention that I have a copy of The House Of Churchill should anyone be after any info on that marque.

Further to wymberley`s kind words and offer of research; I have Nigel Brown`s 3 volumes of `British Gunmakers` that I am happy to trawl through if anyone is seeking info on their pride & joy.

[Old Boggy]

1 hour ago, JJsDad said:

Hi Old Boggy.

Looks like his site has been re-named from the one quoted, decided to have a look and couldnt find it initially; now under: http://www.wrleeson.co.uk/ . I dont own a Leeson, but an interesting site for anyone who has an interest in the British gun trade.

Cheers. JJsDad

Sorry, my mistake, got the website address wrong. It is and always has been www.wrleeson.co.uk

OB

[figgy]

20 hours ago, clumber said:

T Wild,  3" chambers,  3/4 choke in both.

I wonder who EW 1940 and CMC 65 were and what tales told?

Love the inscribed Initials and dates from past owners you should add yours, all adds to the Gun.

My Current Garbi made Gunmark Royale is a 1986 and has non of the history yours has.

[steve s×s]

Have to  say yes to this one, side by sides IMHO are (proper) guns , have 3 at the moment , 2 Denton&kennels 1 sable 3"mag, biggest problem I've had over the years is getting one that fits, tried shortening  lengthening  raising  lowering but if they don't fit  they don't fit , anyhow will still keep buying things of beauty .

[Feltwad]

For the English sxs  shotgun we may talk about the top London and Birmingham Gun makers but lets not forget the provincial gun makers who also turned out  first class guns , these gun makers were the back bone of  the local  gun trade 

Teasdale of Durham City

Askey of Bedale

 

Feltwad

Edited April 22, 2018 by Feltwad

[oldypigeonpopper]

hello, i am pleased this side by side club has started since my original posting, lots of interesting guns/ photos/ comments/ and old adverts, i am reminded when i started going to the game fair in the 1970s you could watch gunsmiths and engravers much like a few videos on U tube, best english side locks and boxlocks to order, i think a phrase in the white springs to mind and finished off to your specifications, but for me it was a joy to watch such skill of shotgun making if thats the right word, 

[JJsDad]

This AYA No: 1 dates from around 1979-80 and came into my possesion from a builder who bought it new and advertised it in the sporting press for sale and as requiring a little TLC.

As the price was at the bottom end of the going rate I rang the seller and arranged to view it. When he showed me the gun it was evident from his comment that it needed TLC, that he was a master of understatement and had no interest in looking after what had been when new, a lovely gun; as he put it "I only used it for a bit of ducking and I am not mechanically minded" ! 

The barrels for around 8in. in the area of the  fore-end were totally white. The choke barrel had a worringly large dent about 4 in. from the muzzle and the right barrel was badly scratched for about 5 to 6in. forward of the forcing cone. The RH ejector had packed up and the stock was in a very sorry state with dents and scratches; to add insult to injury, the stock had been cut down so that it was flat and fitted with a hideous ventilated recoil pad that overlapped the wood by about an 2 to 3 mm all round. As a finale the barrels were off the face and there was noticeable movement with the fore-end removed.

I was trying to come up with an excuse without causing offence when the seller told me he had had 2 previous viewings, both of whom had walked away, so he was prepared to accept an offer. I explained that getting all these faults put straight was all going to cost a considerable outlay on top of what he was asking. He said he had been told the dent "could be pushed out and the barrels re-blacked for around £50" !!!!     I offered him £400 less than the asking price and was reaching for the door handle when he had a rapid reality check and agreed.

Over the next 4 months the following work was carried out:

The RH ejector `V` spring, as suspected, had fractured and a new one was obtained through ASI and fitted with only a small ammount of fettling.

The threaded discs covering the hinge pin came out without a problem. I measured the gap between standing breech and barrels and then drove out the hinge pin. I then turned up an oversize pin that was twice the measured gap + 3 thou. The hole for the hinge pin was then reamed using an adjustable reamer to give an interference fit for the new pin. The rear of the barrels were then smoked and fitted to the action by taking off the high spots. This resulted in good engagement of the underbolt and the barrel bites with the top lever just to the right of the centre.

The barrels still had their original chokings of half & full which is tighter than I require, so I took those to Sorrel Bros (East Grinstead) and asked them to open the chokes to a quarter & half, raise the dent in the LH hand barrel and polish or hone the RH barrel to remove the offending scratch. 8 weeks later and around £300+ poorer I at least had a set of barrels that looked like new.

I stripped the stock to remove dings and scratches and slung the ventillated pad and fitted an orange `Silvers` version. The stock was then oil finished using alkanet root oil to colour it and then slackum and finishing oil from a Warthog (Purdey) kit that I bought some years ago. She is not an old lady by gun standards, but at least is now back to close to her original beauty.

 

Edited April 22, 2018 by JJsDad
edit of procedure

[MrPhantom]

6 minutes ago, JJsDad said:

This AYA No: 1 dates from around 1979-80 and came into my possesion from a builder who bought it new and advertised it in the sporting press as requiring a degree of TLC.

As the price was at the bottom end of the going rate I rang the seller and arranged to view it. When he showed me the gun it was evident from his comment that it needed TLC, that he was a master of understatement and had no interest in looking after what had been when new, a lovely gun; as he put it "I only used it for a bit of ducking and I am not mechanically minded" ! 

The barrels for around 8in. in the area of the  fore-end were totally white. The choke barrel had a worringly large dent about 4 in. from the muzzle and the right barrel was badly scratched for about 5 to 6in. forward of the forcing cone. The RH ejector had packed up and the stock was in a very sorry state with dents and scratches; to add insult to injury, the stock had been cut down so that it was flat and fitted with a hideous ventilated recoil pad that overlapped the wood by about an 2 to 3 mm all round. As a finale the barrels were off the face and there was noticeable movement with the fore-end removed.

I was trying to come up with an excuse without causing offence when the seller told me he had had 2 previous viewings, both of whom had walked away, so he was prepared to accept an offer. I explained that getting all these faults put straight was all going to cost a considerable outlay on top of what he was asking. He said he had been told the dent "could be pushed out and the barrels re-blacked for around £50" !!!!     I offered him £400 less than the asking price and was reaching for the door handle when he had a rapid reality check and agreed.

Over the next 4 months the following work was carried out:

The RH ejector `V` spring, as suspected, had fractured and a new one was obtained through ASI and fitted with only a small ammount of fettling.

The oranamental plates covering the hinge pin came out without a problem. I measured the gap between standing breech and barrels, turned up a new oversize pin that was twice the measured gap plus 3 thou. The old hinge pin was then driven out and the hole reamed using an adjustable reamer to give an interference fit for the new pin. The rear of the barrels were then smoked and fitted to the action by taking off the high spots. This resulted in good engagement of the underbolt and the barrel bites with the top lever to the right of the centre.

The barrels still had their original chokings of half & full so I took those to Sorrel Bros (East Grinstead) and asked them to open the chokes to a quarter & half, raise the dent in the LH hand barrel and polish or hone the RH barrel to remove the offending scratch. 8 weeks later and around £300 poorer I at least had a set of barrels that looked like new.

I stripped the stock to remove dings and scratches and slung the ventillated pad and fitted an orange `Silvers` version. The stock was then oil finished using alkanet root oil to colour it and then slackum and finishing oil from a Warthog (Purdey) kit that I bought some years ago. She is not an old lady by gun standards, but at least now back to close to her original beauty.

 

Thanks for posting. It’s amazing how some people treat their guns and have no pride of ownership. I imagine the original owner paid a small fortune for this gun new. I only have a no.4 but aspire to owning a no.2 or even a no.1 one day. Like what you did with the Silvers pad, looks good.

[JohnfromUK]

An AyA No 1 is my 'go to' gun and I use it weekly for a few clays and more often 'in season'.  Mine is about the same age as yours (1977) and has been fitted to me (minor changes and increased cast) and I think is either 1/4 and 1/2, or IC and 1/4.  I can never remember and it isn't important.  Mechanically they are almost exactly like a No 2, but have more expensive barrel steel that (in theory anyway) allows the wall thickness to be a little thinner for lighter barrel weight and livelier handling.  No 1 is also hand engraved whereas (certainly more recent) No 2s are I understand 'roll engraved'.

I have had new firing pins (one was broken and the other 'looked' cracked), so both were done.